# Big sucking void of pain that is Buffy. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 10, 2001, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-sucking-void-of-pain-that-is-buffy/86509 "2001-10-10T04:23:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19adc/32.png) [@Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2001, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-sucking-void-of-pain-that-is-buffy/86509/121 "2001-10-19T15:00:09Z")
Damn that off-camera stuff! My only regret is that I’m catching up on Buffy through reruns (and due to fuckwittage in the videotaping department missed I Jane You Robot, and the episode where Oz gets all furry), and have yet to really watch Angel. ---
**Author:** ![andygirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a9adbd/32.png) [@andygirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andygirl)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2001, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-sucking-void-of-pain-that-is-buffy/86509/122 "2001-10-19T15:23:08Z")
IIRC, Joss has said in interviews that Sunnydale is modled after Santa Barbara. I think Willow is bisexual, but that’s just an opinion. ---
**Author:** ![slackergirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b38774/32.png) [@slackergirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slackergirl)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2001, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-sucking-void-of-pain-that-is-buffy/86509/123 "2001-10-19T15:42:01Z")
Pismo Beach? nah, too far north. Maybe Ventura. Sunnydale is a stand in for Santa Barbara. The aerial city shots that they’ve started using are Santa Barbara, and a couple of times over the years they’ve made reference to local stuff, like things being located on State Street, which is the main drag. ---
**Author:** ![Beadalin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3be4f8/32.png) [@Beadalin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beadalin)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2001, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-sucking-void-of-pain-that-is-buffy/86509/124 "2001-10-19T17:56:44Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Saltire_ > Angel comes through with some cash. It’s never quite clear whether he has some socked away from years of vamping. Can’t be this, 'cause in _Angel_, Cordelia makes a remark about how centuries of existence had taught Angel nothing about wise investment. I definitely like the idea of Buffy taking the money from the geeks. We certainly weren’t shown all that money they had for no reason (I have yet to see a thread well and truly dropped by the show). She won’t even necessarily take the money-- she may do the ethical thing and return it to the bank, which might then reward her by giving her some of it. Or at least approving her for a loan. **Stoid** – the discussion about Spike’s accent got a little confused. One person is saying that his accent has evolved through the show, from a Cockney accent to a proper, upper-class British one. Therefore, Spike (the character) is faking his upper-class accent instead of speaking in his natural, Cockney accent. Another person pointed out that the actor playing Spike is an American, so no matter what the English accent he speaks in, it’s faked. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2001, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-sucking-void-of-pain-that-is-buffy/86509/125 "2001-10-19T18:08:29Z")
Oxnard. ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2001, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-sucking-void-of-pain-that-is-buffy/86509/126 "2001-10-19T18:41:22Z")
1. UC Santa Cruz alum and Buffy Honcho Marti Noxon has said that she considers Sunnydale to be a version of Santa Cruz. This, of course, is completely messed up, geography-wise (Santa Cruz is about six hours north of LA), but fits in nicely with SC being the setting for the classic 80’s vampire flick _The Lost Boys_. So give it up, guys, Sunnydale doesn’t have a reflection in reality. That’s fine with me, although I like the idea of a Buffy and Angel rendezvous in Pismo Beach, where we almost got arrested (to hear melodramatic people tell it) at SLOfest in June. 2. Why can’t there be a crossover? Last season there was a crossover between two David E. Kelley shows on two different networks, _Boston Public_ and _The Practice_. I say it can happen, and since there wasn’t a “Next week on Angel” after the last _Angel_, I was expecting it to be this coming Monday. I guess I was the only one? ---
**Author:** ![Peta\_Tzunami](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b487fb/32.png) [@Peta\_Tzunami](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peta_Tzunami)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2001, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-sucking-void-of-pain-that-is-buffy/86509/127 "2001-10-19T18:53:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*\*Andygirl posted:\*\*I think Willow is bisexual, but that’s just an opinion. I second that opinion. I’ve heard before a theory that all people are really bisexual; it just depends on to what degree they feel and express it. Willow seems to love Tara as much as she did Oz and Oz as much as Tara… > [@](#): > > **Beadalin posted:** Can’t be this, 'cause in Angel, Cordelia makes a remark about how centuries of existence had taught Angel nothing about wise investment. I agree Angel won’t bail her out. I’m sure since they teased jobs that’ll have something to do with it. I know someone mentioned fast-food wackiness, but remember, we know Buffy (aka Anne) can be a good waitress if she has to be. I’m wondering about her/their Dad. Okay, so Buffy’s old enough to be responsible for Dawn so she’s not moving to wherever he is living now, but shouldn’t he still support his daughter(s) financially. Also, IRL (and I may be wrong) since Buffy is not a parent, but is, it seems in the position of legal guardian to Dawn, wouldn’t she receive fostercare/caregiver funds from the government? I’ve heard of Grandparents who raise their grandchildren getting financial assistance from the government. And I still want to know is what happened to the money Angel found (still) hidden in the hotel? In the flashback episode, he goes to the hotel and finds the satchel just where he stashed it (and the woman hidden in the hotel room where he left her). So, did he give her the money? Did he give it away? Did he use it to lease and clean the hotel? Is there any left? Surely he didn’t return it to the bank that had long since written it off as stolen. I don’t think these are plot-essential questions, just personal curiosity. ---
**Author:** ![Fiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e274bd/32.png) [@Fiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiver)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2001, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-sucking-void-of-pain-that-is-buffy/86509/128 "2001-10-19T19:00:51Z")
**Beadalin** , you have it backwards. Spike, or “William the Bloody,” as he was known (for his “bloody awful” poetry), was an idle Victorian aristocrat before he was vamped. He affected a street-level Cockney accent thereafter. He doesn’t sound much like a Cockney now; I don’t know how you’d peg his modern accent. \*\*Kyla[/b: _The Lost Boys_ was set in Santa Clara, or maybe Santa Carla. Anyway, it wasn’t Santa Cruz. Yes, David E. Kelley did a cross-network crossover, but he got the networks concerned to agree to it. The WB and UPN, in this case, have both said “no crossovers,” so there won’t be one. I learned something cool today: Rance Howard, who played evil body-switcher Marcus Roscoe on this past Monday’s _Angel,_ is the father of actor-director Ron Howard and actor Clint Howard. Keen. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2001, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-sucking-void-of-pain-that-is-buffy/86509/129 "2001-10-19T19:20:13Z")
**Fiver** : _The Lost Boys_ was indeed set in Santa Cruz, they just weren’t allowed to use the name, so they made up a fake one. For the reason why, you just have to look at one of the opening scenes when they are entering the town and they see the ( fictitious ) city sign, with “Muderer Capital of the World” or something like that scrawled underneath ( my memory is a little hazy on the exact line ). Apparently the town fathers of Santa cruz weren’t crazy about having that attached to their city name, even if only for a movie 😉 . - Tamerlane ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2001, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-sucking-void-of-pain-that-is-buffy/86509/130 "2001-10-19T19:27:34Z")
\*\* Cordelia \*\* gets to hang out with \*\* Angel??? \*\* Say it ain’t so! Since I’m new to this whole deal, I wasn’t paying attention…why did the WB let go of \* Buffy \* and keep \* Angel \* ? Doesn’t Buffy have higher ratings? stoid ---
**Author:** ![Gozu\_Tashoya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/7993a0/32.png) [@Gozu\_Tashoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gozu_Tashoya)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2001, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-sucking-void-of-pain-that-is-buffy/86509/131 "2001-10-19T20:02:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Stoid \* > \*\* > > Since I’m new to this whole deal, I wasn’t paying attention…why did the WB let go of \* Buffy \* and keep \* Angel \* ? Doesn’t Buffy have higher ratings? > > stoid \*\* Basically, [it was a money thing](http://www.time.com/time/columnist/poniewozik/article/0,9565,107337,00.html). > [@](#): > > In its fifth season, the makers of “Buffy,” and its producer, Fox Television, wanted a substantial jump in the approximately $1 million an episode the network had been paying. (As with many series, this meant operating at a loss for the expensive production, with the hope of making it up in syndication and richer later-season deals). Talks were at an impasse and bad feelings running high when UPN jumped in with a reported offer of about $2.3 million per episode, which creator Joss Whedon and Fox leapt at like a vampire at a Red Cross bloodmobile wreck. I believe an article on the now-defunct Daily Radar had Fox asking for $1.8, with WB willing to go to $1.6. Or something. What I don’t understand why Fox is making the show then selling it off to the highest bidder for broadcast. Surely if it aired on a “big” (read: a network that’s not UPN or the WB) network would pull in enough advertisers to cover production costs and definitely more money than, say, even _Dark Angel_. ---
**Author:** ![Beadalin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3be4f8/32.png) [@Beadalin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beadalin)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2001, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-sucking-void-of-pain-that-is-buffy/86509/132 "2001-10-19T20:03:57Z")
Damn, **Stoid** , I totally forgot that would be a spoiler for you. Just keep in mind that, like we’ve been saying for other characters, Cordelia also grows and changes. By the time you get into _Angel_, I bet you won’t mind. **Fiver** – You’re absolutely right! I got the accents backwards. Sorry about that. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/74df32/32.png) [@The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Devil_s_Grandmother)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2001, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-sucking-void-of-pain-that-is-buffy/86509/133 "2001-10-19T20:23:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Peta Tzunami \* > **Also, IRL (and I may be wrong) since Buffy is not a parent, but is, it seems in the position of legal guardian to Dawn, wouldn’t she receive fostercare/caregiver funds from the government? I’ve heard of Grandparents who raise their grandchildren getting financial assistance from the government.** Theoretically, Buffy and Dawn could receive money from Social Security, food stamps, and several other programs. Buffy would need to be exerting “parental control” over Dawn, which she does seem to be doing. However, the amount of paper work and hassle you have to go through to get money from the government would make for a very boring episode. Dawn’s father, who had been presumably paying child-support for Buffy and Dawn should still be paying for at least Dawn. Depending on the divorce settlement (I don’t think it’s been discussed on the show) it may or may not be enough money to live on. I would guess it is not, as the house is not paid for (according to the banker-wanker from last week). Sorry about the confusion generated by my last post. I had no idea it was so difficult to differentiate between Marsters (actor) and Spike (character). ---
**Author:** ![The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/74df32/32.png) [@The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Devil_s_Grandmother)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2001, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-sucking-void-of-pain-that-is-buffy/86509/134 "2001-10-19T20:34:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Chocobo \* > \*\*On Giles as Ripper, has anyone made the connection to Jack the Ripper? I mean, he’s english, he obviously has a mean streak based on his fight with the Costume Shop guy (I don’t remember his name, was it Ethan?)…and the Costume shop guy was making comments about how no one knew who he really was and even referred to him as ‘The Ripper’. He even made some jab about how old he really was. I’m an FX watcher, so I haven’t seen many eps. from season 3-5, but it seems to make sense with what I’ve seen so far. > Thoughts? \*\* I think the name is just being used to underscore Giles’s mis-spent youth. I can certainly see where a wanna-be thug with a dorky name like Rupert would dump it in favor of Ripper. While the theme of the show is redemption, I think if Giles was a long-lived Jack the Ripper trying to make up for the evil he inflicted on the world, it would have been dealt with a long time ago. ---
**Author:** ![Fiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e274bd/32.png) [@Fiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiver)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2001, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-sucking-void-of-pain-that-is-buffy/86509/135 "2001-10-19T20:49:40Z")
_Buffy_ isn’t about redemption, **The Devil’s Grandmother** ; that’s _Angel’s_ jones. _Buffy_ is about the passage to adulthood. But anyway, I don’t think Giles was ever truly evil; I think he was just foolish and irresponsible, like the person he briefly became in the episode “Band Candy,” about which I will say no more in deference to those of you catching up with FX. Y’all really don’t want that episode to be spoiled. (And mods, could you please fix my bolding in my earlier post? Thanks.) ---
**Author:** ![Legomancer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/779978/32.png) [@Legomancer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Legomancer)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2001, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-sucking-void-of-pain-that-is-buffy/86509/136 "2001-10-21T17:50:42Z")
I’d just like to say that the third episode, the one with the geeks (hooray! Jonathan!) just aired here last night, and I liked it a lot. I’m glad the show has decided to address my concerns, and I hope it continues to do so. With some genuine character development and a trip back to the real world, I think this show could get back on track. I’m just keeping my figers crossed that they don’t get sidetracked by whatever End Boss they have picked out for this season. It was a nice return to form, I thought. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2001, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-sucking-void-of-pain-that-is-buffy/86509/137 "2001-10-23T02:58:11Z")
I’ve been thinking a little about the old eps on FX… Why has poor Giles only ever gotten one love interest? That hardly seems fair…Someone else should have made him squirm! And would an Angel fan explain the Darla thing to me? I watched Angel only up until they killed off Doyle, but I gather that Angel’s “sire” Darla ended up on Angel at some point. How the hell did they explain that? She was killed in season one of BtVS. Poof, dust, stick a fork in her, she’s done. I didn’t realize at first that Angel fans were talking about the same Darla because of this. Then, people are now saying she’s pregnant, and outside of the permenently pregnant vamp in Modern Vampires (of which I watched…oh, 15 minutes of) I’ve never heard of that, either… ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2001, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-sucking-void-of-pain-that-is-buffy/86509/138 "2001-10-23T03:23:35Z")
**elfkin** : Last season, on _Angel_, the evil law firm\* of Wolfram and Heart resurrected Darla in an Ancient and Dangerous Ritual[sup]tm[/sup], with the ultimate goal of driving Angel over to the dark side. Darla was resurrected as a living human, with a soul and an advanced case of syphilis. Angel tried to help her cope with her returned sense of morality, and incipent mortality because of the syphilis. Just as he’s starting to make progress with her, W+H bust in with Drucilla (nicely done surprise entrance there, btw) who re-vamps Darla. Over the next few episodes, Angel freaks out, fires everyone on the show, tries to storm the gates of Hell, and finally, in total despair, he sleeps with Darla. Instead of turning evil, he has an epiphany about what a gloomy loser he’s been lately and starts patching up his relations with the rest of the cast. Meanwhile, in Season Three, Darla starts showing up preggers in exotic locals. So far, no one knows why or how, except that it’s Angel’s. Kinda sorry you asked? You should check _Angel_ out again. It’s gotten much better since the first season. [sub]\*Now that’s redundant[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2001, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-sucking-void-of-pain-that-is-buffy/86509/139 "2001-10-23T03:28:51Z")
> [@](#): > > Why has poor Giles only ever gotten one love interest? That hardly seems fair…Someone else should have made him squirm! I can think of three “love interests,” or at least sex interests for Giles. Jenny Valentine, a black woman from England whose name I don’t recall, and Joyce > [@](#): > > And would an Angel fan explain the Darla thing to me? I watched Angel only up until they killed off Doyle, but I gather that Angel’s “sire” Darla ended up on Angel at some point. How the hell did they explain that? Darla was brought back by the evil lawyers at Wolfram and Hart. She was brought back in human form, had a number of encounters with Angel and co. (including doing the nasty at least once with Angel), and was turned back into a vampire by Drucilla. The pregnancy has not been fully explained. The CW is that it’s Angel’s baby but it hasn’t been made explicit. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2001, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-sucking-void-of-pain-that-is-buffy/86509/140 "2001-10-23T05:02:58Z")
Wow. From the big sucking void of pain that is Buffy to the big warm fuzzy ball of love that was tonight’s Angel. Mid-western values destroy giant man-eating cockroach. Hugs all around. I feel good. Guilty, but good. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-sucking-void-of-pain-that-is-buffy/86509.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-sucking-void-of-pain-that-is-buffy/86509.md?page=8)