# Big Surprise! No Clone Testing! **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 3, 2003, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-surprise-no-clone-testing/146451 "2003-01-03T17:42:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Rico](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rico/32/3582_2.png) [@Rico](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rico)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2003, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-surprise-no-clone-testing/146451/1 "2003-01-03T17:42:03Z")
I can’t say I’m not surprised by this decision. [Rael: No DNA Testing For Cloned Baby Eve](http://www.cnn.com/2003/HEALTH/01/03/clone.claims/) And I love this line… > [@](#): > > …(Rael) was asked if his group had simply gotten away with a great publicity stunt. Rael, speaking from Canada via satellite, said his earpiece was having technical difficulties. Thoughts? ---
**Author:** ![Rico](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rico/32/3582_2.png) [@Rico](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rico)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2003, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-surprise-no-clone-testing/146451/2 "2003-01-03T17:43:07Z")
Excuse me - the danged double negative caught me. I meant: “I’m not surprised by this decision.” I know better than that! ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2003, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-surprise-no-clone-testing/146451/3 "2003-01-03T17:49:11Z")
Yeah, these guys are playing the press quite well. I’d like to see the media, across the board, to tell them no more coverage until you’ve got the independent results. Still, I do believe we’re not far from seeing a real clone from somewhere. Just too much money invovled for everyone to ignore the technology. ---
**Author:** ![perspective](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f475e1/32.png) [@perspective](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/perspective)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2003, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-surprise-no-clone-testing/146451/4 "2003-01-03T20:03:45Z")
Does anyone know what grounds the lawsuit was based on? ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2003, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-surprise-no-clone-testing/146451/5 "2003-01-03T21:00:20Z")
[http://www.centredaily.com/mld/centredaily/news/4849964.htm](http://www.centredaily.com/mld/centredaily/news/4849964.htm) > [@](#): > > Posted on Tue, Dec. 31, 2002 > Florida lawyer claims `cloned child’ being abused, asks for guardian > BY SHANNON O’BOYE AND SHANA GRUSKIN > South Florida Sun-Sentinel > > FORT LAUDERDALE, Fla. - (KRT) - A Coral Gables, Fla., lawyer, who says he took at face value a religious sect’s recent claim to have cloned the first human baby, said he thinks the child is being abused and exploited and needs protection. > > Bernard Siegel filed a motion in Broward County circuit court Tuesday asking a judge to appoint a guardian ad litem for the baby, nicknamed “Eve” by Clonaid, the cloning company linked to the Raelian sect, which believes space aliens created life on Earth. > > Siegel, 53, a former sports promoter and agent who owned the Miami Tropics professional basketball team and Florida Championship Wrestling, has been handling personal injury and medical malpractice cases for the past year. He said he stepped up on behalf of the child because no one else did. > > \< snip \> > > In the lawsuit, Siegel said the child will be subjected to medical tests to prove she is a clone, could be suffering from fatal genetic defects, and faces a lifetime of emotional and psychological stress if she is, indeed, a clone. > > \< snip \> > > [Mary Allegretti, deputy district administrator for DCF in Broward County] said it is unusual but legally possible for a lawyer to file a petition for dependency with the court without going through the agency. DCF would get involved if a judge ordered the child removed from the home, but Allegretti said she was skeptical that that would occur, as the case stands now. > > \< snip \> > > John Walsh, a lawyer and child advocate who heads up the Foster Children’s Project in Palm Beach County, said Siegel may have a case, if he can prove a child actually exists. > > “His case may have some merit, particularly if he can prove these people are cloning this child and using this child for some type of science or monetary gain or publicity’s sake,” Walsh said. “Then I think he’s got something to hang his hat on, and if it’s not a clone and the mother has gotten together with these alleged scientists to say this is a clone, then he’s really got a case.” > > \< snip \> > > Under Florida law, Siegel has to allege and eventually prove the child is at risk or has been abused, abandoned or neglected, Walsh said. So, what’s a “guardian ad litem”? ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2003, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-surprise-no-clone-testing/146451/6 "2003-01-03T21:13:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Duck Duck Goose \* > \*\*[http://www.centredaily.com/mld/centredaily/news/4849964.htm](http://www.centredaily.com/mld/centredaily/news/4849964.htm) > So, what’s a “guardian ad litem”? \*\* Someone other than a parent who represents the child legally, often during cusody cases. Kids I babysat had one while their parents were divorcing, but never got a real sense of what she did other than make recommendations to the court. If it helps at all [Dictionary.com](http://Dictionary.com) says: a guardian appointed by a court of justice to conduct a particular suit. What I wonder about the refusal is if they realize that no one is likely to take their claims seriously if a third party is not allowed to do DNA testing on the “clone.” Normally, I’d say “they must” but then these people think we’re aliens, so… ---
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2003, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-surprise-no-clone-testing/146451/7 "2003-01-03T22:53:31Z")
On a side note, I find it interesting that the media never fails to mention the Raelians’ belief that aliens created life on Earth. Do articles about the Catholic Church refer to it as “the popular worldwide religion, whose members believe a man who could walk on water died two millenia ago and came back to life, and whose rituals involve eating his body and drinking his blood”? Do articles about Scientology refer to it as “the sect, which believes psychological problems are caused by the ghosts of aliens eradicated in a nuclear volcano”? ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2003, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-surprise-no-clone-testing/146451/8 "2003-01-03T22:56:56Z")
The media probably assumes that we already know all that, whereas the Raelians are the New Kids. ---
**Author:** ![ElJeffe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/958977/32.png) [@ElJeffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElJeffe)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2003, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-surprise-no-clone-testing/146451/9 "2003-01-03T23:12:14Z")
Ditto what Duck said. And in as much as their beliefs kinda put the whole episode in a different perspective, I would say pointing them out is relevant to the story. Jeff ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2003, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-surprise-no-clone-testing/146451/10 "2003-01-03T23:19:44Z")
—And in as much as their beliefs kinda put the whole episode in a different perspective, I would say pointing them out is relevant to the story.— Well so would the basis of the religious objections often raised against cloning… but the media rarely if ever mentions what those are: simply stating them as if they were unquestionable moral convictions as opposed to reasoning based on particular theological assumptions. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2003, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-surprise-no-clone-testing/146451/11 "2003-01-04T02:57:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mr2001 \* > **Do articles about the Catholic Church refer to it as “the popular worldwide religion, whose members believe a man who could walk on water died two millenia ago and came back to life, and whose rituals involve eating his body and drinking his blood”?** No, but they should. ---
**Author:** ![Sdrawkcab](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/22d042/32.png) [@Sdrawkcab](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sdrawkcab)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2003, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-surprise-no-clone-testing/146451/12 "2003-01-04T03:10:01Z")
No, tracer, they shouldn’t. Space is limited in journalism, and you shouldn’t spend your space explaining things that its safe to assume your audience knows. It’s like the fact that newspapers don’t explain what the term “GOP” means, they use it in the first reference to refer to the Republican Party. If an article were related to a certain aspect of Christianity, such as Bethlehem, the reputed birth place of Jesus, then that should be mentioned, and usually is. If the article deals with a less-commonly known doctrine of the Catholic faith, then that should be referenced. However, the basic belief of the Catholic Church in Jesus as Messiah is too well known to waste prescious column inches on. People don’t know what the Raelians believe, and their beliefs are pertinant to the situation with the so-called-clone, both of which make it appropriate to recap those positions in each article. Now, after five or six months of constant press coverage – which I don’t expect to happen here – I wouldn’t expect to see such a mention of their basic beliefs every time the group is mentioned. The issue is familiarity. People in general, in America, are familiar with the Catholic Church, so such an explanation is not needed. That is not the case with the Raelians. ---
**Author:** ![David\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/51bf81/32.png) [@David\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_B)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2003, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-surprise-no-clone-testing/146451/13 "2003-01-04T14:56:34Z")
Mr2001 said: > [@](#): > > On a side note, I find it interesting that the media never fails to mention the Raelians’ belief that aliens created life on Earth. Which is completely relevant since they believe aliens did it _through cloning_. The Raelians wouldn’t even _be_ cloning humans (or trying to, or claiming to) if they didn’t believe this. ---
**Author:** ![perspective](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f475e1/32.png) [@perspective](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/perspective)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2003, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-surprise-no-clone-testing/146451/14 "2003-01-04T16:31:37Z")
Well, I’m pretty pissed that this promoter/lawyer seems to be playing the media as well as the Raelians in the supposed interest of the kid. On top of that, he provided a convenient excuse for them not to test. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2003, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-surprise-no-clone-testing/146451/15 "2003-01-04T16:57:39Z")
Maybe it’s just my tinfoil hat pinching, but I did wonder, reading the article, whether he was in on it, with them. Everybody wins–he gets exposure, they get off the hook. ---
**Author:** ![Coil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bb73d2/32.png) [@Coil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coil)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2003, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-surprise-no-clone-testing/146451/16 "2003-01-05T20:27:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mr2001 \* > \*\*Do articles about the Catholic Church refer to it as “the popular worldwide religion, whose members believe a man who could walk on water died two millenia ago and came back to life, and whose rituals involve eating his body and drinking his blood”? Do articles about Scientology refer to it as “the sect, which believes psychological problems are caused by the ghosts of aliens eradicated in a nuclear volcano”? \*\* I think that seeing Christianity described that way would be pretty funny, at least the first couple of times. Refering to Scientology that way would be a good way for a newspaper to get sued for revealing cult secrets. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2003, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-surprise-no-clone-testing/146451/17 "2003-01-06T00:56:16Z")
We must here again remember Tom Wolfe’s definition of a cult: _a religion with no political power._ ---
**Author:** ![Urban\_Ranger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Urban\_Ranger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urban_Ranger)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2003, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-surprise-no-clone-testing/146451/18 "2003-01-06T15:56:57Z")
This doesn’t surprise anybody. It’s a silly little game, it doesn’t take much brain power to see through it. ---
**Author:** ![GOM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/5f9b8f/32.png) [@GOM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GOM)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2003, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-surprise-no-clone-testing/146451/19 "2003-01-10T18:38:04Z")
\*\* SHOW US THE DNA!!!\*\* * * * [http://www.arn.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get\_topic;f=14;t=000267;p=1](http://www.arn.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=14;t=000267;p=1) - posted 01-04-2003 05:27 AM * * * I heard recently that they were backing out on providing the DNA evidence. Is that correct? If true, it makes my suspicions extremely strong that they are only in this for all the media attention (and possibly some big money). I think I heard that they had a waiting list of around 2,000 people who are each willing to pay over $100,000.00 each for this procedure. It might have even been $200,000.00 each, now that I think about it. * * * If so, could this be nothing more than a $400,000,00.00 scam?\*\* * * * That’s an awful lot of money. Like “they” say: Follow the money… This really stinks. Some authorities (I’m not exactly sure who) need to stop these people. It seems simple to me: Provide proof, or stop making claims and taking advantage of people who are getting sucked in by all the hype.