# Big Ten talking about being big 12 **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [December 16, 2009, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-ten-talking-about-being-big-12/521424 "2009-12-16T00:35:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 25
**Author:** ![Zeldar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b77776/32.png) [@Zeldar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeldar)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2010, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-ten-talking-about-being-big-12/521424/481 "2010-06-16T16:54:25Z")
> [@notfrommensa](#): > > Big 12 = Hanging by a thread Conference Beautiful, and better than “can’t put the toothpaste back in the tube” conference. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2010, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-ten-talking-about-being-big-12/521424/482 "2010-06-16T16:57:13Z")
> [@Zeldar](#): > > Beautiful, and better than “can’t put the toothpaste back in the tube” conference. Big XII: We Got Corn! Oh, wait… ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2010, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-ten-talking-about-being-big-12/521424/483 "2010-06-16T16:57:23Z")
Big XII -\> University of Texas Pac 10 -\> Mormons and Immigrants and Hippes, Oh My Big 10 -\> Flyover USA SEC -\> The Greatest Footbal Conference…EVAR!1!!!1! Big East -\> Whoo Basketball!!! Bueller? ACC -\> ACC ---
**Author:** ![fiddlesticks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddlesticks/32/18129_2.png) [@fiddlesticks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fiddlesticks)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2010, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-ten-talking-about-being-big-12/521424/484 "2010-06-16T16:58:10Z")
Big XII -\> Whatever Texas Says Conference ---
**Author:** ![markdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@markdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markdash)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2010, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-ten-talking-about-being-big-12/521424/485 "2010-06-16T17:16:59Z")
> [@fiddlesticks](#): > > Big XII -\> Whatever Texas Says Conference Burnt Orange and the 9 Dwarfs? ---
**Author:** ![Oredigger77](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oredigger77/32/3181_2.png) [@Oredigger77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oredigger77)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2010, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-ten-talking-about-being-big-12/521424/486 "2010-06-16T20:07:22Z")
> [@MD12](#): > > The only aspect of Boise State that belongs in t he Pac-10 is their football team. Everything else about it screams “WAC” or “MWC”. Ya but they’ve shown a willingness to spend money to improve a program. I think if they got into a real conference with some cash flow it wouldn’t take them long to drop some cash on the other major programs and bring them up to a competitive level or at least higher then Washington State. ---
**Author:** ![markdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@markdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markdash)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2010, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-ten-talking-about-being-big-12/521424/487 "2010-06-16T20:11:19Z")
> [@Oredigger77](#): > > Ya but they’ve shown a willingness to spend money to improve a program. I think if they got into a real conference with some cash flow it wouldn’t take them long to drop some cash on the other major programs and bring them up to a competitive level or at least higher then Washington State. Boise State has been in 2 BCS bowls already (correct?) and we haven’t seen an appreciable improvement in their non-football programs. They’re a somewhat unique school in that respect, in that their football program is at the top of D-1 but their other programs are lagging way behind, even by WAC standards. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2010, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-ten-talking-about-being-big-12/521424/488 "2010-06-16T20:21:34Z")
[Pac 10 officially invites Utah](http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/news;_ylt=AoHADaFSMbVuOG7tyR_I1UY5nYcB?slug=txpac10utah). Utah will decide tomorrow, what will they ever decide? Stay in the MWC or join one of the BCS Conferences? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2010, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-ten-talking-about-being-big-12/521424/489 "2010-06-16T20:25:43Z")
Oooh, that’s a toughie … 🙂 I gotta admit I’m surprised this is all that’s happened - the Big 10 and Pac 10 get their title games, the Big 12 will get theirs back after they call up a couple new members from the minors, and the Big East survives. Only the last is still in question, and only if the Big 10 proceeds with its rumored _drang nach Osten_ one of these years. And they might not. ---
**Author:** ![Oredigger77](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oredigger77/32/3181_2.png) [@Oredigger77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oredigger77)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2010, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-ten-talking-about-being-big-12/521424/490 "2010-06-16T20:49:45Z")
> [@MD12](#): > > Boise State has been in 2 BCS bowls already (correct?) and we haven’t seen an appreciable improvement in their non-football programs. They’re a somewhat unique school in that respect, in that their football program is at the top of D-1 but their other programs are lagging way behind, even by WAC standards. I think you’re right they’ve been in 2 BCS bowls but that money has gone to keeping the football team at a high level. They are not getting the conference support that is needed to take their other teams to the next level. If you looks at the schools that are good in multiple sports that are in major conferences that have apparel deals and get financial support from their conference. Texas got 7 million last year just in TV contracts while Boise only received 3.5 mil for it’s BCS bowl. That is a large discrepancy and i think it’s the difference between a school that can afford 1 elite program and one that can afford 10. The last couple of years the WAC schools have only received 300K apiece so the difference is pretty extreme. ---
**Author:** ![notfrommensa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f14d63/32.png) [@notfrommensa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/notfrommensa)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2010, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-ten-talking-about-being-big-12/521424/491 "2010-06-16T21:00:40Z")
Boise St’s football stadium has a capacity of about 35K, which would put on the low side of BCS Conference football stadiums. I think only Duke and Wake Forest have smaller stadiums. ---
**Author:** ![crypto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b3f665/32.png) [@crypto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crypto)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-ten-talking-about-being-big-12/521424/492 "2010-06-17T20:44:22Z")
> [@Duke](#): > > Well, of course I’m going to disagree here. But I don’t think things will change that much if Joe goes. Penn State will still have the third largest stadium (and sell that out every game), and almost all of the state of PA following it. It’s not as if they’re going away. > > And JoePa’s been going on about a playoff for 45 years (not an exaggeration–he first called for it in 1965), and nobody’s listened to him yet, so it’s not like the football landscape is going to be any different if he’s silenced. You may be right, of course. But my feeling is that JoePa has had a burr up his ass about Pittsburgh ever since Pitt went into the Big East and left Penn State floating out there in the Atlantic 10. I’m sure you know this, but since JoePa has been around so long, (he’s coached at PSU longer than I’ve been alive!), he’s wanted to put together an eastern football conference. That was his pet project and he viewed it as his legacy. At the time, it was a good idea. It still might be, but the Big East was a money maker, and as we’ve all been reminded this year, money more than anything, makes college presidents drool. So Pitt, PSU’s biggest rival by far (and PSU was Pitt’s biggest rival at the time), jumped to the Big East, along with Syracuse, Rutgers, Boston College, and a few other schools that JoePa saw in his conference. I don’t remember if PSU was invited and turned it down, or wasn’t invited because it didn’t have a basketball program worth talking about (and that’s what the Big East was focusing on, so it wouldn’t surprise me if PSU simply wasn’t offered a slot.) JoePa has held a grudge against Pitt ever since. Pitt could have been included in their non-conference schedule, and aside from a 5-year renewal of the rivalry in the 90’s, he’s not been interested. As a Pitt fan, I really miss playing PSU around thanksgiving, because when I was growing up, the Pitt/PSU game always meant something. The non-conference games were nice, but they really lost their importance, and the rivalry energy wasn’t there. September football is not the same as a November game that means anything. Anyway, when JoePa goes, I have a feeling that Pitt and PSU will renew their football rivalry. Whether it be in conference with Pitt joining the Big 10, or out of conference. They are still the two biggest Division 1 football programs in the state of PA, and they still fight over recruits. But since they aren’t in the same conference, the recruiting wars aren’t as fun as they once were. JoePa’s own personal spite has kept these two schools from playing each other for approximately 2 decades now. It’s a shame that one man has had that much power and ability to impact a century old rivalry, but he did. I don’t know what JoePa’s view is on Pitt being invited to join the Big 10, but my guess is he’d be against it. Maybe he’s gotten over his anger and his feelings of being slighted in the early 80’s when the Big East was formed. Maybe not. I know a lot of people love the Big East for the basketball, but I’m a football first fan, and I think Big East football stinks. I also think the fact that it gets a BCS birth is a joke. For me, I’d love to see Pitt football become relevant again, and even though they are currently rated in the pre-season top 20, and have finished in the top 20 a couple of times, there’s not much to get excited about. I would love to see Pitt get into the Big 10 for the football schedule. And the basketball program wouldn’t take a major hit (although their recruiting in the NYC area would take a hit for sure). But until Pitt gets a Big 10 invite while JoePa is alive, I’ll always feel he is a big reason as to why they aren’t getting in. When he goes, renewing the Pitt/PSU rivalry will be a big moneymaker, and as we’ve seen, money makes the decisions easy for everyone involved. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-ten-talking-about-being-big-12/521424/493 "2010-06-17T20:50:39Z")
Penn State had already joined the Big 10 before the Big East was even formed. That, in fact, was the precipitating event. Paterno and other coaches/AD’s in the former “East Indies” group had wanted to form a conference for a long time, but there were too many others who foolishly resisted (Boston College was one), and Paterno got tired of it. ---
**Author:** ![crypto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b3f665/32.png) [@crypto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crypto)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-ten-talking-about-being-big-12/521424/494 "2010-06-17T21:23:44Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Penn State had already joined the Big 10 before the Big East was even formed. That, in fact, was the precipitating event. Paterno and other coaches/AD’s in the former “East Indies” group had wanted to form a conference for a long time, but there were too many others who foolishly resisted (Boston College was one), and Paterno got tired of it. Are you sure about that? I think your timing might be off. If you have a cite, I’d love to see it. In the meantime, I’ll go digging around myself. That’s not the sequence of events as I remember them, but if it’s the case, it really doesn’t change much from my POV. He wanted that eastern conference, and schools like Pitt chased the basketball money that the Big East was offering. ---
**Author:** ![crypto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b3f665/32.png) [@crypto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crypto)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-ten-talking-about-being-big-12/521424/495 "2010-06-17T21:26:50Z")
I think you are off by quite a bit. Penn State joined the Big 10 in 1990. Pitt joined the Big East in 1982. JoePa had about a decade to build up his anger. My dates came from Wikipedia ---
**Author:** ![notfrommensa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f14d63/32.png) [@notfrommensa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/notfrommensa)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-ten-talking-about-being-big-12/521424/496 "2010-06-17T23:46:04Z")
> [@Stink Fish Pot](#): > > I think you are off by quite a bit. > > Penn State joined the Big 10 in 1990. > > Pitt joined the Big East in 1982. > > JoePa had about a decade to build up his anger. > > My dates came from Wikipedia FWIW, the Big East didn’t become a football conference until 1991 Season. [Cite](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_East_Conference) (Scroll half down to the Football section Pitt played as a Div I-A independent from 1978-1990. [Cite](http://www.cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/div_ia/bigeast/pittsburgh/index.php), See Conference Affiliations. ---
**Author:** ![crypto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b3f665/32.png) [@crypto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crypto)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-ten-talking-about-being-big-12/521424/497 "2010-06-18T01:21:51Z")
> [@notfrommensa](#): > > FWIW, the Big East didn’t become a football conference until 1991 Season. > > [Cite](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_East_Conference) (Scroll half down to the Football section > > Pitt played as a Div I-A independent from 1978-1990. > > [Cite](http://www.cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/div_ia/bigeast/pittsburgh/index.php), See Conference Affiliations. Ah. I remember that now. I forgot that Pitt was an independent in football during that period. If I remember correctly, there were a number of independents in Division 1-A during that time. Thanks for pointing that out. The Big East also existed before Pitt joined, if I remember correctly. So Pitt had the same relationship with the Big East that Notre Dame has now, I guess. All sports except for football were tied into the conference initially. I believe PSU was also independent in football at that time, and the rest of their sports programs were part of the Atlantic 10, is that correct? It’s a shame, really. Pitt obviously liked the money they were seeing from the Big East to commit their football team to the conference instead of staying independent. If JoePa’s dream of the Eastern school conference would have taken shape, I wouldn’t feel so cheated on Thanksgiving. West Virginia? No one cares… Pitt/PSU was a passionate rivalry, on the level of Michigan-Ohio State. I will keep my fingers crossed to have Pitt invited to the Big 10. But I don’t think that’s going to do it. ---
**Author:** ![notfrommensa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f14d63/32.png) [@notfrommensa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/notfrommensa)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-ten-talking-about-being-big-12/521424/498 "2010-06-18T04:40:09Z")
I think I read somewhere (maybe it was in this thread) that Big 10 looks at Pitt as a “commuter” school. w/o an on-campus football stadium. Insinuating that a commuter school is not good enough for the Big 10. ---
**Author:** ![crypto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b3f665/32.png) [@crypto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crypto)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-ten-talking-about-being-big-12/521424/499 "2010-06-18T05:19:42Z")
> [@notfrommensa](#): > > I think I read somewhere (maybe it was in this thread) that Big 10 looks at Pitt as a “commuter” school. w/o an on-campus football stadium. > > Insinuating that a commuter school is not good enough for the Big 10. Pitt is far from a commuter school, although they no longer have an on-campus stadium. The destruction of Pitt Stadium was, IMO, one of the biggest mistakes the University made. At the time, however, it looked like a great opportunity for the university and its football program. The Pitt Panthers share Heinz Field with the Steelers, and they also share a workout and training facility on the South Side of Pittsburgh. The building is literally connected, and the doors to enter each facility are right next to each other. As an 18 year old kid being recruited, it was thought that this would be a great incentive to come to Pitt. I have no idea if it has worked. What HAS happened is that they’ve lost that game day feel in Oakland, where students and alumni would tailgate and party, walk to the stadium, and then go back into Oakland. Now, students who like to drink might stay on campus and watch the game on TV instead of risking a DUI (which I applaud), or take a bus, which takes a lot of energy away from the crowd. The one thing I have heard is that Pitt is an urban campus (which it is), which is very different than most, if not all, Big 10 schools. I don’t think the Big 10 would care that Pitt doesn’t have a football stadium on campus if they filled it each weekend. I personally think they would with a Big 10 schedule. The Big East schedule? Not so much. WVU yes, but Rutgers, UConn, Louisville, South Florida? Those are hard to get excited about. Change that with OSU, PSU, Michigan, MSU, Purdue, and the rest? That would be good football. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-ten-talking-about-being-big-12/521424/500 "2010-06-18T12:25:15Z")
> [@Stink Fish Pot](#): > > Now, students who like to drink might stay on campus and watch the game on TV instead of risking a DUI (which I applaud), or take a bus, which takes a lot of energy away from the crowd. Sounds like an opportunity for someone to come in with a dozen or so busses, cart the students to Heinz, throw a giant tailgater, and go drop their giant bag of cash off at the bank. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-ten-talking-about-being-big-12/521424.md?page=24) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-ten-talking-about-being-big-12/521424.md?page=26)