# Big Ten talking about being big 12 **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [December 16, 2009, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-ten-talking-about-being-big-12/521424 "2009-12-16T00:35:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2009, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-ten-talking-about-being-big-12/521424/121 "2009-12-17T19:13:11Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Then they could at least change the name of the conference without embarrassment. Since regular decimal notation and Roman numeral notation are already taken, I recommend that the Big 14 use binary. Big 1110 has a nice ring to it. ---
**Author:** ![notfrommensa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f14d63/32.png) [@notfrommensa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/notfrommensa)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2009, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-ten-talking-about-being-big-12/521424/122 "2009-12-17T19:15:25Z")
If they get up to 18 Teams they could name it: The \*\*GR8-Teen \*\*Conference ---
**Author:** ![zamboniracer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e9a140/32.png) [@zamboniracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zamboniracer)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2009, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-ten-talking-about-being-big-12/521424/123 "2009-12-17T19:17:08Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > Since regular decimal notation and Roman numeral notation are already taken, I recommend that the Big 14 use binary. Big 1110 has a nice ring to it. Or they could just drop the use of numerals altogether, use a trademan comprised of a compound word and call it the “Bigten conference”. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2009, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-ten-talking-about-being-big-12/521424/124 "2009-12-17T19:24:32Z")
OR…they could recruit like 10 more teams, and just call it the Really Big Conference. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2009, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-ten-talking-about-being-big-12/521424/125 "2009-12-17T19:27:32Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > Since regular decimal notation and Roman numeral notation are already taken, I recommend that the Big 14 use binary. Big 1110 has a nice ring to it. Nah, if you’re going to go techie then go all the way. I give you **The Big E Conference**. (Perhaps 13 works better… Big D has a good football sound to it). ---
**Author:** ![notfrommensa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f14d63/32.png) [@notfrommensa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/notfrommensa)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2009, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-ten-talking-about-being-big-12/521424/126 "2009-12-17T19:30:09Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > OR…they could recruit like 10 more teams, and just call it the Really Big Conference. 10 more teams would bring the total to 21. The BlackJack Conference. Here is [an SI article](http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/stewart_mandel/12/15/bigten-expansion/index.html), it says: > [@](#): > > The Big Ten does not publicly release revenue-sharing figures, but it’s been reported that its rights deals with ABC/ESPN and the Big Ten Network generate about $212 million annually. (That’s in addition to the league’s direct profits from its jointly owned network.) Add in this season’s two BCS berths ($22.3 million) and five other bowl berths (about $14 million), and we’re talking a minimally estimated $248.3 million in shared revenue, or $22.6 million per team. > > Therefore, any potential 12th team would have to add $22.6 million in “value” to renegotiated TV and bowl deals to prevent the others from losing money. With all due respect to Missouri, Pittsburgh, Syracuse and Rutgers (the most commonly discussed candidates), there’s only one viable school that could guarantee that kind of gold mine: Notre Dame. The Irish rejected the Big Ten’s last invitation in 1999, and the school has given no indication it’s willing to reconsider. That’s a pretty big obstacle for a Missouri or Pittsburgh type team to hurdle. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2009, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-ten-talking-about-being-big-12/521424/127 "2009-12-17T19:37:19Z")
> [@notfrommensa](#): > > 10 more teams would bring the total to 21. The BlackJack Conference. > > Here is [an SI article](http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/stewart_mandel/12/15/bigten-expansion/index.html), it says: > > That’s a pretty big obstacle for a Missouri or Pittsburgh type team to hurdle. That is too narrow a view, in my opinion. The long-term is that a 12th team ensures longer term viability of the conference. the additionof a twelfth team would probably guarantee an additioanl $10 million per year just due to the championship game. It also creates more “important” games with two divisions, giving more teams chances to compete for titles. If the Big 10 doesn’t do this because they might lose a few million dollars in the immediate future then they are losing the long term view, I don’t see them thinking that way. Addendum: By “long-term viability” I don’t mean the Big 10 would not be a viable conference, I just thionk they would become more and more marginalized compared to the SEC, Big 12, ACC, and Big East. ---
**Author:** ![zamboniracer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e9a140/32.png) [@zamboniracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zamboniracer)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2009, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-ten-talking-about-being-big-12/521424/128 "2009-12-17T19:45:17Z")
> [@zamboniracer](#): > > Or they could just drop the use of numerals altogether, use a trademan comprised of a compound word and call it the “Bigten conference”. The conference currently shares the territory with the Mid-American Conference, or the MAC. They could call the new expanded conference the Big MAC and get some sort of tie-in with the hamburger chain. Whadya think, am I a marketing genius or what? (d&r) ---
**Author:** ![notfrommensa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f14d63/32.png) [@notfrommensa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/notfrommensa)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2009, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-ten-talking-about-being-big-12/521424/129 "2009-12-17T20:05:12Z")
> [@zamboniracer](#): > > The conference currently shares the territory with the Mid-American Conference, or the MAC. They could call the new expanded conference the Big MAC and get some sort of tie-in with the hamburger chain. Whadya think, am I a marketing genius or what? (d&r) That is a whopper of an idea, be sure to super-size it. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2009, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-ten-talking-about-being-big-12/521424/130 "2009-12-17T23:56:52Z")
If they do go with 12, I assume they will avoid confusion by making everyone call them tBig 12. They would have the following teams: tOSU tUM tUW etc. ---
**Author:** ![crypto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b3f665/32.png) [@crypto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crypto)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2009, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-ten-talking-about-being-big-12/521424/131 "2009-12-18T04:01:42Z")
Notre Dame is the obvious choice, but it’s never going to happen. Not only is the football team independent, but all of their other athletic programs are meshed in with the Big East. I think they like it just fine being in a power conference in basketball and being independent in football. They will not join the Big Ten Rutgers is also not a good option. I live in the NYC metropolitan area, and I get the Big 10 network already. I don’t see all of these “new subscribers” that people are talking about. Yeah, the NY market would be nice, but the Big Ten is decidedly midwestern, and a NY (ok, central NJ) team isn’t exactly a dream come true. Plus, good luck getting Rutgers basketball recruits to play in the Big Ten. The Big East plays their basketball tournament in Madison Square Garden, a huge recruiting tool to get the players to stay east. Rutgers benefits from that. They’ve also sucked royally for most of their existence (minus the last 5 years or so), so it’s not like they have a track record of success. They don’t have any natural rivalries in the Big Ten, either. Pitt is the logical choice after ND, and since I don’t think ND is going, Pitt will be given a shot. This is a no-brainer for anyone that knows Pitt and its history with Penn State and Ohio State. Penn State is their natural rival, but many western PA kids are plucked from OSU as well (Tyrell Pryor ring a bell?) The states of PA and Ohio also have all-star games between the best football players, and many of those kids from PA play in Western PA high schools. Pitt also brings academic credentials, world class medical facilities, and a great basketball program, that would more than manage in the Big Ten. Drawbacks I see… JoePa may not want Pitt in the Big Ten. He tried to make an all-eastern conference back in the 80’s with all of the traditional eastern powers… Pitt, PSU, Syracuse, WVU, BC, I think Rutgers, and some other schools. Pitt screwed the deal by joining the Big East instead, pissing of JoePa, and caused the cancellation of one of the best rivalries in college football. Penn State was stuck in the sad Atlantic 10 until its rescue by the Big Ten. Also, I’m not sure Pitt would want to go. I think they’d be crazy not to, but their basketball program has been successful the last decade because of their ability to recruit NYC kids. That may disappear if they join the Big 10. ---
**Author:** ![Neptunian\_Slug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce7236/32.png) [@Neptunian\_Slug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neptunian_Slug)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2009, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-ten-talking-about-being-big-12/521424/132 "2009-12-18T06:21:27Z")
> [@Stink Fish Pot](#): > > Drawbacks I see… JoePa may not want Pitt in the Big Ten. He tried to make an all-eastern conference back in the 80’s with all of the traditional eastern powers… Pitt, PSU, Syracuse, WVU, BC, I think Rutgers, and some other schools. Pitt screwed the deal by joining the Big East instead, pissing of JoePa, and caused the cancellation of one of the best rivalries in college football. Penn State was stuck in the sad Atlantic 10 until its rescue by the Big Ten. JoePa is actually [supportive of Pitt](http://community.post-gazette.com/blogs/bobsmizik/archive/2009/05/01/paterno-wants-pitt-in-big-ten.aspx) coming into the conference as opposed to Ntre Dame. And I don’t think it would be a bad move either. The rivalry between Penn State and Pitt was very strong and died out when Penn State came over to the Big Ten. That’s a shame because Penn State is a great program and really doesn’t have a rival. Their games against Ohio State and Michigan are usually big games. But I certainly don’t consider Ohio State-Penn State as any sort of rivalry game. Its just important because Penn State is one of the teams to beat for the conference title. Rutgers is an interesting choice, because I think it would bring in viewers from a very potent TV market. And selfishly, it would give me an opportunity to see the Buckeyes every couple of years. My only concern is whether Rutgers can be a consistently competitive team or a consistent draw. I still have memories of a Rutgers-Temple affair at the Linc a few years ago where maybe 10,000 people showed up to watch a horrendous football game. I think you have a good chance of having Rutgers home games packed with visiting fans. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2009, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-ten-talking-about-being-big-12/521424/133 "2009-12-18T07:04:06Z")
I think it makes a lot of sense for the Big 10 to expand NE and poach teams from the dying Big East while dropping their weaker members. A dream scenario would be: Lose: Indiana and Northwestern Gain: Pitt, WV, and ND Alignment: Michigan Ohio State Michigan State Purdue Illinois Iowa Nortre Dame Pitt PSU Wisconsin West Virginia Minnesota You import existing rivalries in PSU-Pitt and Pitt-WV, while setting up what should be natural rivalries between OSU and Pitt/WV. Losing Indiana basketball is tough, but Indiana basketball is really Bob Knight basketball. Without him Indiana has been in the wilderness a bit. Pitt and WV are both stronger programs currently, and ND/Purdue can easily pick up the local recruits Indiana got. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Jeffrey\_Lebowski](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_jeffrey_lebowski/32/215_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Jeffrey\_Lebowski](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Jeffrey_Lebowski)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2009, 7:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-ten-talking-about-being-big-12/521424/134 "2009-12-18T07:23:43Z")
> [@Stink Fish Pot](#): > > Rutgers is also not a good option. I live in the NYC metropolitan area, and I get the Big 10 network already. I don’t see all of these “new subscribers” that people are talking about. Viewers, ratings, fuel for driving ad revenue up up up. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2009, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-ten-talking-about-being-big-12/521424/135 "2009-12-18T17:09:24Z")
I think if Rutgers gets into the Big 10 ,there will be an increase in the audience in size and intensity in the New York area. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2009, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-ten-talking-about-being-big-12/521424/136 "2009-12-18T17:51:53Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > I think if Rutgers gets into the Big 10 ,there will be an increase in the audience in size and intensity in the New York area. Sure, but I think that is being overplayed a bit. I mean NYC is not a college football hotbed by any stretch and I don’t see it turning into one just because Rutgers joins the Big North. ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2009, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-ten-talking-about-being-big-12/521424/137 "2009-12-18T17:56:17Z")
NYC, like any frontrunning town, will get behind a winning team if it means they can get more attention. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2009, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-ten-talking-about-being-big-12/521424/138 "2009-12-18T18:04:55Z")
> [@treis](#): > > I think it makes a lot of sense for the Big 10 to expand NE and poach teams from the dying Big East while dropping their weaker members. A dream scenario would be: > > Lose: Indiana and Northwestern > Gain: Pitt, WV, and ND Dropping either Northwestern or Indiana is a non-starter, because it’s impossible unless those schools voluntarily withdraw (which they won’t). Besides, there’s no good reason to drop them. Northestern especially has been pretty competitive for the last fifteen years or so, winning several conference championships and usually finishing in the top half of the standings. Plus they’re the only team in the Chicago market. (Although Illinois and ND are also popular there). ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2009, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-ten-talking-about-being-big-12/521424/139 "2009-12-18T18:17:02Z")
Notre Dame has reiterated in the last few days that they’re not interested in joining. It’s a non-starter and that’s no surprise to me. ---
**Author:** ![Hippy\_Hollow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hippy_hollow/32/4841_2.png) [@Hippy\_Hollow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hippy_Hollow)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2009, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-ten-talking-about-being-big-12/521424/140 "2009-12-18T18:39:56Z")
> [@stuthehistoryguy](#): > > What’s the source for these rankings? Indana #71? Not bloody likely. And in whose universe is Notre Dame one of the top 20 academic institutions in the US? Word. I am a professor of higher education and I cannot think of any ranking system that looks remotely like that. (Why yes, I am incensed that my institution is ranked #47 on that list.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-ten-talking-about-being-big-12/521424.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-ten-talking-about-being-big-12/521424.md?page=8)