You can go back further. Since 2000, Northwestern is 11-9 against those two teams. Hardly a pushover.
In my opinion though, Purdue is not a natural rivalry. Illinois + Wisconsin would have made more sense, although I know no arrangement would have been perfect.
Although I agree with this, and have maintained that Rutgers is a non-entity with bringing the NY market into the Big 10 fold, it seems to be the only reason given in the discussion of why Rutgers received an “invite*” The Other Jeffrey Lebowski has been beating this drum since this topic was raised, and although I didn’t believe Rutgers would be invited because of all the reasons listed in this thread (or just take the last page of the thread), he appears to be right. Money is driving this bus (I’m not surprised), and Rutgers is giving the Big 10 the NYC market (allegedly).
So, Mr. Lebowski, I stand corrected, and am willing to give you your props. Based on what I know about Rutgers, the lack of interest in the Northeast in general, the NYC metro area in particular, and more significantly, 10 miles outside of the Rutgers campus, I just didn’t see the invite coming. You hit the nail on the head. If Rutgers does get in, that potential TV money is the only reason. But it’s a BIG reason.
Does Minnesota and Michigan have a rivalry? for a Brown Jug or something another?
It is somewhat manufactured but getting less so. If we could beat the bastards in Happy Valley for once it could take off.
That’s very gracious of you SFP, thank you; tho’ as you’ve said, nothing official yet. I’m not sure about them being a doormat as I feel that they’re a little better than Indiana in football. What will help Rutgers more than anything in building a strong program, one that can compete in the Big 10, I believe, is the continued success of their alums in the NFL.
What’s funny about Rutgers BB, for me, at least, is that I went to college with Mike Rice, the new head coach, and I think that he’s a perfect fit there - high intensity, basketball junkie, son of a college coach. His teams will not be the type to lose games due to a lack of effort.
The ripple effects of all this could be massive. I could easily see a complete realignment of the conferences happening over the next three to four years.
Frankly, one thing I would love to see is FSU and Miami bolting the ACC for an expanded SEC.
I see it the opposite way: Rutgers has had problems signing local talent *because *it hasn’t been in a big-time conference until recently, and even that’s arguably not one. The best players in NJ have chances to be in the *real *big time, with all the money/exposure/babes that comes with that, if they go elsewhere, but if they can get all that without leaving home, then more will stay.
Another historical factor has been facilities, but they have an upgraded stadium (and arena too, I think) now.
Plus, they have an excellent young football coach with a long-term contract (yes, I know, that means shit at this level, but he’s publicly turned down other offers already).
I’m big enough to admit when I’m wrong … and since I was one of the most outspoken (if not ***the ***most outspoken) on this issue, I felt you deserved a tip of the cap. As a Big East fan, and a resident of the NYC metro area, I just don’t see any tv market for Rutgers. Nobody seems to care about Rutgers. I’ve seen Big East games of the week out here with anyone BUT Rutgers. I can admit that I may be completely missing something about Rutgers and their drawing power. But my experience, as someone above mentioned, is that NYC is not a college sports area to the extent that other areas of the country are. You saw it differently. You apparently were correct. I can’t argue that!
Here’s my take. FTR, I am not a Rutgers fan, and I don’t have any positive or negative feelings towards Rutgers. They just don’t matter to me, and they never have. I am a Pitt fan, a Big East fan, so I do tangentially follow Rutgers, but at the same interest level as Seton Hall.
From a basketball POV, I think this hurts Rutgers (or ANY team leaving the Big East). The Big East has a major draw for kids in that it is arguably the best basketball conference in the country, they get a ton of TV exposure through ESPN and other outlets, AND their conference tourney is held at MSG, a major drawing tool for the kids coming out of NYC. Any kid considering a Big East school will not be as excited to go to the Big 10.
As for football, I don’t know. The Big East football conference is not very good and is and has been on the brink of catastrophe for a number of years now. I don’t know where NJ kids go to play their college football (maybe a Rutgers alum or fan can answer that), but they don’t go to Rutgers. They seem to make it a point to get away from Rutgers. Every time a local kid signs with Rutgers, it’s a very big deal. Perhaps the Big 10 would change that. But it seems that Rutgers has a bigger problem with their football recruitment than conference affiliation.
They seem to recruit from Florida more than NJ.
And if you’re going by ESPN’s rankings, they only recruited 2 of the top 20 local prospects this past year.
Rutgers has been mired in mediocrity for most of their existence, they’ve had a bit of success here and there, but not enough to create any strong legacy. Meanwhile, national powers would pillage players like Joe Theisman, Franco Harris, Mike Rozier, Irving Fryar, Ron Dayne, and the latest digraced juicer, Brian Cushing; scores of great high school players year in, year out - Bob Kratch, Trey Bauer, Greg Toal, Dwayne Jarrett, Craig Heyward (to your Pittsburgh Panthers), Glenn Foley, Greg Olson, Ned Bolcar, to name just a handful, would bolster seemingly every other program but the sorry Scarlet Knights.
That losing culture has begun to change ever so slightly during Greg Schiano’s time, which is now 8 or 9 years. I’m holding out hope that he continues to establish the program, have one of his players become a mega star in the NFL - Rice, maybe Britt, possibly one of the to be sophomores on the team now, QB Tom Savage or WR/Wildcat Mohammad Sanu - then, maybe they put themselves in a position draw the NY market, to be a solid top 20 program (right now I’d say they’re high 30’s), which is, realistically, still a few years off.
Speaking only for the Ohio State side of the ledger, Buckeye fans view Penn State as a “rival” insofar as Penn State is usually a decent football team and you have to beat them to win the Big Ten. But if Penn State was 3-5 going into the game, most of us wouldn’t give a rats ass about them anoy more than we care about the Purdue or Indiana games. On the other hand, even while Michigan is in the crapper, the game still means something. If only to hand the Wolverines another Tressel beatdown.
But I do agree that Pitt is about money. I don’t live in Western PA, but I would guess that BTN is on most cable systems out that way. Adding Pitt doesn’t put any cash flow into the till. I was reading a while ago that Barry Alvarez would vote against any school that can’t pay its own way. (In other words, he won’t support adding a team that reduces his share of conference income.) If other schools feel the same way, that probably kills Pitt.
If what seems to be driving this (money, and money only), then Pitt may be SOL. I’ve been reading as much as I can about this, since as a Pitt alum, I’ve wanted to see Pitt get back into a yearly rivalry game with Penn State. I don’t care about West Virginia, and even though the “backyard brawl” has been a long-standing rivalry, the only reason most Pitt fans began to care about it is because Penn State disappeared from the schedule.
From the Big XII’s POV, it may force them to split the bowl game revenues on an equal basis, which is something they don’t do now. If the Big XII’s PTB are smart, they will fix this financial hole and it may be enough to keep Nebraska and Missouri in the Big XII. Especially Nebraska. Missouri seems to want to go. If Nebraska goes, that would rip one of the teams out of the Big XII’s heart and soul.
I do have a question about the Big 10 network. Who watches it? I love Big 10 football, but I have never watched the channel once. If Pitt were in the Big 10, it would make a difference, but right now, I have no interest in the channel. Do they pull numbers from the NYC area now? How about anywhere in the Northeast? With that question in mind, what kind of ratings does Rutgers football and basketball bring in?
I’m sure they have run the numbers, but in my mind, a team like Pitt adds much more than Rutgers (excluding the potential viewership base from the NYC area) to the conference. Two natural rivalries, Penn State and Ohio State. An excellent basketball team (which may take a recruiting hit without the MSG tourney, but an excellent coach in place). A natural geographical addition.
If this does happen, Pitt may be one of the schools without a seat when the music stops. They must be in a conference that has football as a major part of their conference, not like the 8 team mickey mouse Big East has right now. So would they slide into the Big XII? Would the Big East try to grab a few more teams with football programs from somewhere else? The Big East will be the conference most impacted because of their football programs. They’ll lose their BCS status, which will cause every team in the league with a D-1 football program to look for greener pastures.
Whatever happens, it will be exciting. And I hope Pitt lands in the Big 10 so I can get back to watching a late November football game against Penn State.
A friend of mine with connections inside the Missouri athletic department says the changes in the Big 10/11 are only the first step in a college football reorganization that will lead to superconferences. In the spirit of rampant speculation and completely unverifiable rumor, here’s how he says it will all shake out:
Big 10 – wanted Notre Dame. The ND administration is agreeable, but the alumni are violently opposed and want the school to remain independent. So the Big 10 will add Missouri, Nebraska, Rutgers, Syracuse and Pitt, for a total of 16.
SEC – lures Florida State and Miami from the ACC, and Oklahoma and Oklahoma State or Texas AM from the Big 12, for a total of 16.
PAC 10 - Gets Colorado from the Big 12
Texas – If Oklahoma and/or Texas AM goes to the SEC, Texas goes independent. Even if Texas stays in the Big 12, it forms its own TV network.
The Big 12 would then be the Big 6. Five of them go with Colorado to the PAC 10, for a total of 16. That leaves one team out in the cold, most likely Baylor.
The rest of the ACC and the Big East would then reshuffle teams, with the reorganized Big East focusing on basketball and non-FBS football.
If this happens, remember, you heard it here first. If it doesn’t happen, remember, it’s not MY prediction.
There have been a bunch of predictions like that lately. The sense is that the Big Ten will definitely expand and the other conferences will follow suit to avoid being left behind. SI imagined one scenario where the remaining conferences - I think there were three - did away with the NCAA entirely, since they wouldn’t need it anymore.
Still not buying Syracuse. If Pitt adds little into the till, then Syracuse adds even less. It’s not like upstate NY is a ratings bonanza for BTN. But what do I know?
Yes. Minnesota and Michigan play (an unfortunately one-sided) rivalry game for the Little Brown Jug. However, since the Big 10 only protects two games on the schedule, the two schools didn’t play last year, and won’t play this year. As an amusing aside, not only to the Gophers play for trophies against Iowa and Wisconsin, but they also play for one against their natural rivals Penn State.
And as a Wisconsin fan, I am compelled to point out that Minnesota is not in possession of the trophies from any of those games. Just a bunch of empty trophy cases. 
That hurts! Espcially coming from the fan of a team that stole the original trophy. 
I understand the movement towards “superconferences”, but I don’t understand dividing up any conference that isn’t the Big East (i.e. the Big XII). If anything, the other conferences start adding mid-tier conference teams. When we start talking about Iowa State and KU joining the PAC 10, it’s just crazy talk. There are plenty of teams on the Pacific side of the Rocky Mountains before picking up a Big XII team.
The Big 12 is already seriously unbalanced because of the dominance of the Southern division (Oklahoma and the Texas teams) and the exclusion of the better Northern division teams from better TV contracts and bowl games.
Instead of thinking about the conferences in the traditional, regional way, think about it this way.
Take the top 90 or 100 college football teams. Put them into five or six groups that will end up playing on New Year’s, sprinkle a few independents like Notre Dame and Texas that can negotiate their own TV contracts and that group will dominate all the television revenue without having to share with mid-tier schools.