# Bigfoot...Sasquatch, Legend Meets Science **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 22, 2006, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bigfoot-sasquatch-legend-meets-science/345648 "2006-02-22T17:03:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2006, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bigfoot-sasquatch-legend-meets-science/345648/1 "2006-02-22T17:03:33Z")
I was watching an interesting show last night on The Discovery Channel. It was called Sasquatch, Legend Meets Science. Basically they had various scientists looking at the various data that we have (foot and body prints, hair and scat samples, audio samples, video footage, etc). They had a cast of scientists looking at the questions…and their conclusion? Over half of the scientists on the show concluded that in fact there is a large North American great ape out there somewhere. Especially compelling was that old 1960’s footage everyone has seen where the ape comes out of the woods, walks by looking back, and then goes off again. Now, I was under the impression that this myth had pretty much been busted. I remember reading about that specific footage in Skeptical Inquirer…as well as other ‘data’. It was all either hoaxes or misidentification (bears and such). But after watching this show there seems to be enough evidence that…well, I’m not sure. But some of the conclusions drawn by the various scientists, especially those who were looking at the video footage, seem compelling. Thoughts? -XT ---
**Author:** ![Ghanima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Ghanima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ghanima)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2006, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bigfoot-sasquatch-legend-meets-science/345648/2 "2006-02-22T17:07:51Z")
Tenacious D says they know his legend is real. That’s good enough for me. OK, seriously. I doubt it. There is simply not enough credible data. The scientists that concluded that Sasquatch exists were probably not presented with complete data. Garbage in, garbage out. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2006, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bigfoot-sasquatch-legend-meets-science/345648/3 "2006-02-22T17:10:10Z")
Define “scientist.” How did the program choose their cast of “scientists”? I’m pretty sure that famous Bigfoot footage has been specifically debunked as hoax - by confession of the perpetrators. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2006, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bigfoot-sasquatch-legend-meets-science/345648/4 "2006-02-22T17:10:54Z")
The Discovery channel, the Learning channel, and a few others used to be about facts and genuine education. Then, they found that they could get better ratings by showing programs that accepted ghosts, aliens, and sasquatch as reality. Many Dopers mourned at that time. The myth _has_ been busted. If bigfoot were real, there would be mountains of evidence-hair, droppings, bones, etc. There is no such evidence. The film has been repeatedly shown to be a fraud. The Discovery channel lied to you. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2006, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bigfoot-sasquatch-legend-meets-science/345648/5 "2006-02-22T17:14:37Z")
What was the date the show was produced? Was an archived show from 15 or 20 years ago? No, most scientists don’t think there is a large North American ape still undiscovered. There is ZERO physical evidence of such an ape. ZERO. As for the Patterson film, Bob Heironimus has admitted he was the guy dressed up in an ape suit for the shooting. The moral of the story: _Caveat emptor_ when watching TDC or THC. ---
**Author:** ![Stonebow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed8c4c/32.png) [@Stonebow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stonebow)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2006, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bigfoot-sasquatch-legend-meets-science/345648/6 "2006-02-22T17:15:31Z")
Was this the same program that had the woman living in the backwoods, who claims to have grown up near a colony of Bigfoots? And that they occasionally come to her house to borrow garlic? (cloves, not powder- they make that quite clear) I also got a kick out of the German miming the ritualistic slaughter of a deer by a Bigfoot in this woman’s backyard. Though, that might have been a National Geographic special. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2006, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bigfoot-sasquatch-legend-meets-science/345648/7 "2006-02-22T17:19:45Z")
I found a couple of [links](http://www.blaine-slplife.com/2003/January/16big.html) about the show. I’ll post em and let folks look em over. Trying to find a link detailing the scientists to answer bups questions. Sorry for the half assed OP…should have done all this up front but I’m at work and have limited resources atm. I’ll get it together at some point. -XT ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2006, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bigfoot-sasquatch-legend-meets-science/345648/8 "2006-02-22T17:19:47Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > The moral of the story: _Caveat emptor_ when watching TDC or THC. Or, when watching TDC while under the infuence to THC. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Malodorous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e47774/32.png) [@Malodorous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malodorous)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2006, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bigfoot-sasquatch-legend-meets-science/345648/9 "2006-02-22T17:23:04Z")
What was the last large mammal of any sort discovered by scientists in N. America? Have thier been any in the last hundred years? While I suppose that some sort of undiscovered field mouse or something may have eluded the attention of taxonomists, I can’t imagine that a breeding population of anything as large (or unusual) as an ape has remained without any sort of indisputable evidence being found in the last 400 years. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2006, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bigfoot-sasquatch-legend-meets-science/345648/10 "2006-02-22T17:28:09Z")
Found another [link](http://www.texasbigfoot.com/cc_caller1.html) . Still can’t find a list of all the scientists (or whatever they were) online but there are a bunch of hits on google I need to dig through. > [@](#): > > Dr. Robert Benson believes in evidence. The Texas A&M University-Corpus Christi physics professor and director of the university’s Center for Bioacoustics won’t allow himself to believe in anything unless there is strong evidence. Benson did not believe in Big Foot, which is why the world-renowned bioacoustician was tapped by a Whitewolf Entertainment producer to analyze possible audio evidence for a documentary co-produced by the Discovery Channel called, “Sasquatch: Legend Meets Science.” “It’s interesting,” he said Saturday, sitting in front of his audio equipment on a short break from filming his segment of the documentary. > > … > > ‘Visual picture’ of sound > > “It’s a visual picture of the sound, so we can make measurements of the temporal frequencies,” he said. With the help of a graduate student, Benson is also gathering background material for comparison with such sounds as those of coyotes, wolves, elk and primates. > > “This is a mammal, at least we suspect,” he said. “We’re still analyzing that.” > > So far, Benson’s study hasn’t yielded a concrete answer. He may take his work into a sound studio in the next couple of weeks if he is able to learn more about the unidentified cry. “There is a whole range of things that it might possibly be,” he said. “In all possibilities, there is the possibility that this could be human.” > > It was a trail of human-like footprints found in a desolate area of the Arctic in 1992 that prompted Minneapolis-based producer Doug Hajicek to pursue the project. While filming another project for the Canadian government, Hajicek and his guide stumbled on the trail and followed it for about a mile. > > ‘No skin’ > > “They were 17- to 18-inch footprints that traveled through sand, tundra and gravel,” he said. “I was amazed. I saw it with my own eyes.” But the question remained. What had created the trail in the first place? > > His mind turned to a cover story about the Sasquatch that he had seen as a young man in the magazine Boys Life. “We considered everything that could have made this and we couldn’t figure it out,” he said. “It was fresh.” With the footage of the footprints, Hajicek embarked on 18 months of field research, talking with scientists, exploring claims of evidence and checking out other documentaries of the phenomenon, he said. > > What he found was little science. “Wouldn’t it be interesting to put the evidence in front of mainstream scientists and forensic scientists and let them go at it,” he said that he wondered. “Here’s a case where there are photos of this thing and there is film of this thing but there’s no body, no skin.” > > ‘It might be negative’ > > Benson is one of more than a dozen experts from mainstream sciences such as forensics, primatology and behavioral science to examine potential evidence that could prove or disprove the mammoth being’s existence. For now, Benson said he can only address the acoustical evidence. “We have recordings but what the source might be, we don’t know,” he said. “It is evidence but it might be negative evidence.” As an aside, on the show this guy said that he felt the audio snippet he was studying was definitely not a hoax or a human and speculated that it MIGHT be a previously unidentified primate. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2006, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bigfoot-sasquatch-legend-meets-science/345648/11 "2006-02-22T17:35:10Z")
In one case, someone swear they saw a big, brown biped outside their window. When they went to check later, they found some hair. Recently, it was genetically tested. Moose. The response of some bigfoot enthusiasts was to suggest that maybe Bigfoot is related to moose, a lost common ancestor between hominids and moose. Of course, it goes without saying that one of the people creationists often cite in attacking evolution happens to attack evolution… because it suggests against the existence of a bigfoot. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2006, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bigfoot-sasquatch-legend-meets-science/345648/12 "2006-02-22T17:39:04Z")
Ok, last [link](http://home.earthlink.net/~arkansasapes/id50.html) I have time to get for now…its just a PR website talking about the show. I’ll now attempt to address some of the skeptics. 🙂 > [@Ghanima](#): > > OK, seriously. I doubt it. There is simply not enough credible data. The scientists that concluded that Sasquatch exists were probably not presented with complete data. Garbage in, garbage out. Assuming for a moment they WERE scientists (I still haven’t found a list), then they wouldn’t draw conclusions from incomplete data…not if they were worth a damn. Also, at least in the show, they were pretty hands on with the data…and seemed to have full access to what there was. > [@DocCathode](#): > > The Discovery channel, the Learning channel, and a few others used to be about facts and genuine education. Then, they found that they could get better ratings by showing programs that accepted ghosts, aliens, and sasquatch as reality. Many Dopers mourned at that time. My initial assumption is the same. Usually I watch TLC and TDC for laughs. Occationally they have interesting things on, but I generally agree. And I’m far from convinced. Thats why I started this thread to see what others thought about the actual show. > [@=DocCathode](#): > > The Discovery channel lied to you. Do you have evidence of this? If so we can shut down the thread. > [@John Mace](#): > > What was the date the show was produced? Was an archived show from 15 or 20 years ago? I believe it was done in 2003. > [@John Mace](#): > > No, most scientists don’t think there is a large North American ape still undiscovered. There is ZERO physical evidence of such an ape. ZERO. As for the Patterson film, Bob Heironimus has admitted he was the guy dressed up in an ape suit for the shooting. First I’ve heard someone admitting to dressing up in an ape suit. Do you have a cite for this? If so then I’m unsure why they bothered looking at the film at all…which sort of indicates that it was all BS. -XT ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2006, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bigfoot-sasquatch-legend-meets-science/345648/13 "2006-02-22T17:51:19Z")
> **[Patterson–Gimlin film | Bob Heironimus](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patterson-Gimlin_film#Bob_Heironimus)** > > Bob Heironimus claims to have been the figure depicted in the Patterson film. Heironimus says he had not previously publicly discussed his role in the hoax because he hoped to be paid eventually and was afraid of being convicted of fraud had he confessed. After speaking with his lawyer he was told that since he had not been paid for his involvement in the hoax, he could not be held accountable. > A month after watching the December 28, 1998, Fox-television special World's Greatest Hoaxes: Secrets ... ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2006, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bigfoot-sasquatch-legend-meets-science/345648/14 "2006-02-22T18:17:49Z")
A living thing requires ancestors. If Bigfoot is real, why have his bones/fossils never been found? Why are there no Sasquatch bones in the LaBrea Tar Pits, together with all those dire wolves, cave bears and sabertooth tigers? In fact, no remains of any ape or non-human hominid have ever been found in North America. See this thread: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=307809](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=307809) ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2006, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bigfoot-sasquatch-legend-meets-science/345648/15 "2006-02-22T18:43:27Z")
I agree…the sasquatch is just about the hardest crypto-animal to swallow that ever came along. Unlike the “yeti”, nobody ever sees the thing, or even finds tracks. Plus, Oregon is pretty well peopled-unlike the Himalayas. Is there any money made in perpetrating this myth? i recall reading that the “Loch ness Monster” pumps a lot of pounds into Scottish coffers-but who the hell journies to Oregon to try to catch a glimpse of “bigfoot”? Nah, I would rather go toe Roswell, NM-they have a whole town devoted to the saucer men! ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2006, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bigfoot-sasquatch-legend-meets-science/345648/16 "2006-02-22T19:02:03Z")
Perhaps it is because he’s Canadienne. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2006, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bigfoot-sasquatch-legend-meets-science/345648/17 "2006-02-22T19:17:49Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > If Bigfoot is real, why have his bones/fossils never been found? Bigfoots are cannibalistic. They eat their dead. The marrow is sucked from the bones. The bones themselves, and the teeth as well, are ground up into a powder, which are mixed with ground up grains and water to make a paste that is then eaten. No scat has been found because, like cats, Bigfoots bury it. And remember that Mountain Gorillas were thought to be mythical until fairly recently! So, given that large apes took a long time to be discovered, Bigfoots do exist. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![GargoyleWB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gargoylewb/32/199_2.png) [@GargoyleWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GargoyleWB)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2006, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bigfoot-sasquatch-legend-meets-science/345648/18 "2006-02-22T19:30:53Z")
This is a neat link…an [image-stabilized](http://www.bigfootencounters.com/files/mk_davis_pgf.gif) version of the famous Patterson film. It is up to you of course to determine whether or not it could be ergonimically replicated by a human in a suit. To my eyes though, it looks like a suit. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2006, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bigfoot-sasquatch-legend-meets-science/345648/19 "2006-02-22T19:46:58Z")
You can even see the belt line. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2006, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bigfoot-sasquatch-legend-meets-science/345648/20 "2006-02-22T19:47:43Z")
Its worth noting that animals that live in acidic forests generally fossilize only very very rarely. However, THAT IS TOTALLY A FUCKING GUY IN A SUIT [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bigfoot-sasquatch-legend-meets-science/345648.md?page=2)