# Biggest Band IMPROVEMENT After One Quits/Fired **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 16, 2019, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biggest-band-improvement-after-one-quits-fired/838716 "2019-08-16T00:13:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Treppenwitz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treppenwitz/32/3445_2.png) [@Treppenwitz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Treppenwitz)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2019, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biggest-band-improvement-after-one-quits-fired/838716/21 "2019-08-16T14:58:52Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > Pink Floyd after Sid left. Syd. And diametrically opposed, BTW. But what I was intending to say was, even Brian Eno thinks that Roxy Music were better after he left, or at least made their best album (Stranded; #3 - Eno was on the first two. Source: TV documentary interview). And I think this truly meets the criteria of the OP - Eno leaving reduced the number of leaders down to one and tightened the focus of the band under Bryan Ferry. We can argue the toss about whether this beneficial effect persisted (I would say no) but hey, that’s a whole other debate. Nice thread, BTW - challenging question. j ---
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2019, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biggest-band-improvement-after-one-quits-fired/838716/22 "2019-08-16T15:00:57Z")
> [@bionic\_man](#): > > Brian Jones was a talented member of the stones but once he left they could tour again. Absolutely. And the case can be made that Mick Taylor was better, in that band, in that spot, than Brian Jones. Certainly what many would say was their best work was done after Jones’ departure. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2019, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biggest-band-improvement-after-one-quits-fired/838716/23 "2019-08-16T15:26:41Z")
Blood, Sweat and Tears improved after Bobby Colomby and Steve Katz revolted against Al Kooper’s dictatorial control. Their second album is their peak, with better arrangements, better musicianship, better production, better song choice, and a better singer. They didn’t maintain that high, unfortunately, but for one album they were transcendent. ---
**Author:** ![TreacherousCretin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treacherouscretin/32/476_2.png) [@TreacherousCretin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TreacherousCretin)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2019, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biggest-band-improvement-after-one-quits-fired/838716/24 "2019-08-16T16:59:40Z")
> [@Saintly\_Loser](#): > > Absolutely. And the case can be made that Mick Taylor was better, in that band, in that spot, than Brian Jones. Certainly what many would say was their best work was done after Jones’ departure. Many others would say the opposite, but in matters of taste there isn’t a right or wrong opinion. What can’t be argued is that Brian’s self-destruction made his firing unavoidable, although he probably wouldn’t have lived much longer anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Shoeless](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shoeless/32/7099_2.png) [@Shoeless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shoeless)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2019, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biggest-band-improvement-after-one-quits-fired/838716/25 "2019-08-16T17:16:12Z")
Steve Hackett replacing Anthony Phillips in Genesis. Although maybe that doesn’t count because when Ant left the band, Tony Banks decided they might as well get a new drummer too. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2019, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biggest-band-improvement-after-one-quits-fired/838716/26 "2019-08-16T17:59:52Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > Pink Floyd after Sid left. > [@Treppenwitz](#): > > Syd. And diametrically opposed, BTW. Nah. Syd had to go. The Floyd would have imploded had the stayed. The world would never have been treated to _Dark Side_ or _Wish._ ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2019, 8:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biggest-band-improvement-after-one-quits-fired/838716/27 "2019-08-17T08:17:11Z")
> [@Treppenwitz](#): > > even Brian Eno thinks that Roxy Music were better after he left, or at least made their best album (Stranded; #3 - Eno was on the first two. Source: TV documentary interview). And I think this truly meets the criteria of the OP - Eno leaving reduced the number of leaders down to one and tightened the focus of the band under Bryan Ferry. we disagree on Syd but I’m in violent agreement with the above. Brian Eno is huge musical hero of mine but I think your analysis is spot-on. ---
**Author:** ![Treppenwitz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treppenwitz/32/3445_2.png) [@Treppenwitz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Treppenwitz)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2019, 9:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biggest-band-improvement-after-one-quits-fired/838716/28 "2019-08-17T09:34:38Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > we disagree on Syd but I’m in violent agreement with the above. Brian Eno is huge musical hero of mine… Yes - I should have emphasised the excellence of Eno. The point is that he didn’t improve them by being replaced by someone better, he improved them simply by being gone. The band wasn’t big enough for both Eno and Ferry. j ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2019, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biggest-band-improvement-after-one-quits-fired/838716/29 "2019-08-17T12:35:22Z")
> [@Treppenwitz](#): > > Yes - I should have emphasised the excellence of Eno. The point is that he didn’t improve them by being replaced by someone better, he improved them simply by being gone. The band wasn’t big enough for both Eno and Ferry. I agree, Whatever the reverse of “more than the sum of their parts” is, that’s what Roxy Music were. I suspect that premise could be the subject of a whole other thread. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2019, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biggest-band-improvement-after-one-quits-fired/838716/30 "2019-08-17T15:12:41Z")
Def Leppard after Pete Willis was shown the door. Speaking of which, how much do you have to drink that Def Leppard fires you for being a drunk? ---
**Author:** ![Anglachel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Anglachel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anglachel)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2019, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biggest-band-improvement-after-one-quits-fired/838716/31 "2019-08-17T16:29:14Z")
Depeche Mode after Vince Clarke left. He was the primary song writer and left the band in quite a lurch. Martin Gore took over song writing and then they exploded. ---
**Author:** ![GESancMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gesancman/32/2923_2.png) [@GESancMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GESancMan)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2019, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biggest-band-improvement-after-one-quits-fired/838716/32 "2019-08-17T17:02:16Z")
I’m thinking Yes qualifies. Now, they have had around 873 people come and go over the last 50 years, but the particular transition I’m thinking of is Tony Kaye’s first departure. The band wanted to go in a more experimental/progressive direction after _The Yes Album_, which meant they needed a more versatile keyboard player. But Kaye was only interested in playing the Hammond organ, so the band let him go. Of course, he was replaced with Rick Wakeman, who is 100 times the player Kaye is. But I think the key here is that if Kaye had stayed, _Fragile_ and _Close to the Edge_ would not have been the albums they are. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2019, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biggest-band-improvement-after-one-quits-fired/838716/33 "2019-08-17T18:05:21Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Blood, Sweat and Tears improved after Bobby Colomby and Steve Katz revolted against Al Kooper’s dictatorial control. Their second album is their peak, with better arrangements, better musicianship, better production, better song choice, and a better singer. They didn’t maintain that high, unfortunately, but for one album they were transcendent. I’m one of those seemingly rare people who likes both the Al Kooper and David Clayton-Thomas versions of BS&T, but I still must disagree with you here. The first DC-T album was a very good album. But _Child Is Father To The Man_ was the transcendent work. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2019, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biggest-band-improvement-after-one-quits-fired/838716/34 "2019-08-17T20:49:40Z")
Yeah, we need a thread on “Debut albums (and hence, bands) that should’ve been huge”. I have no idea why that first BS&T album didn’t immediately change the music scene. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2019, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biggest-band-improvement-after-one-quits-fired/838716/35 "2019-08-20T16:42:33Z")
Steve Gaines being brought into Lynyrd Skynyrd just before the beginning of the One More From the Road double album, after Ed King left. But here’s the thing: Skynyrd was fucking awesome even before this, and of course Ed King was terrific. Gaines just made them all that much better, by equaling King, and then exceeding him. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2019, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biggest-band-improvement-after-one-quits-fired/838716/36 "2019-08-20T17:13:53Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > And, come to think of it, I think the Beatles losing Stu Sutcliffe counts. And we’ll never know if replacing Pete Best with Ringo Starr was an improvement. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2019, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biggest-band-improvement-after-one-quits-fired/838716/37 "2019-08-20T17:38:36Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > I’m one of those seemingly rare people who likes both the Al Kooper and David Clayton-Thomas versions of BS&T, but I still must disagree with you here. The first DC-T album was a very good album. But _Child Is Father To The Man_ was the transcendent work. Yeah, I realize I’m in the minority on this. And I certainly like Kooper, having been a fan of Blues Project. But there’s no question in my mind that BST is the better album. ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2019, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biggest-band-improvement-after-one-quits-fired/838716/38 "2019-08-20T18:00:54Z")
Two guys instead of one. Rod Clark and Denny Laine quit the Moody Blues in 1966 and were replaced by John Lodge and Justin Hayward, who went on to write and sing most of their hits. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2019, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biggest-band-improvement-after-one-quits-fired/838716/39 "2019-08-20T18:01:26Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > And we’ll never know if replacing Pete Best with Ringo Starr was an improvement. Oh, good God, it absolutely was. I love Ringo’s drumming, but listening to some of the Pete Best recordings … man, they did the right thing. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2019, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biggest-band-improvement-after-one-quits-fired/838716/40 "2019-08-20T18:14:09Z")
**Styx** went to superstardom when John Curulewski left and was replaced by Tommy Shaw. **Jethro Tull** improved when Clive Bunker left and replaced by Barrimore Barlow. And **Spinal Tap** got better when the drummer died. Not the second one, but the third one. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biggest-band-improvement-after-one-quits-fired/838716.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biggest-band-improvement-after-one-quits-fired/838716.md?page=3)