# Biggest busts in the history of US sport **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 27, 2002, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biggest-busts-in-the-history-of-us-sport/121072 "2002-07-27T04:32:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![widdershins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f0a364/32.png) [@widdershins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/widdershins)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2002, 8:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biggest-busts-in-the-history-of-us-sport/121072/41 "2002-07-29T08:10:18Z")
Bo Jackson’s two sport career. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2002, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biggest-busts-in-the-history-of-us-sport/121072/42 "2002-07-29T13:38:11Z")
I wouldn’t call Strawberry a bust. He may have been busted, and his career was ruined by drugs, but he was an 8-time all-star, four-time MVP candidate, was a multiple member of the 30-30 club, and managed to play 17 seasons despite it all. I’d also disagree with Bill Walton. He may not have been as great as he could have been, but his being in the HOF means he can’t possibly be called a bust. Some better choices: Chuck Estrada – great rookie season, two tolerable ones, then blew out his arm and only appeared in a handful of games. His final ML win was in relief of Tom Seaver’s first start. Shawn Abner – a real can’t-miss minor leaguer when he was drafted by the Mets. They got smart and shipped his off the San Diego; he ended up hitting .227 lifetime. Pumpsie Green – the first Black member of the Red Sox, the last team to integrate. They said they waited until they found the right person. Green hit .246, had little power, and was a worse than average fielder. His other claim to fame was when he and Gene Conley jumped the team bus one afternoon and vanished, only to be discovered several days later at Logan airport, drunk and trying to take a flight to Israel. The next year, he was shipped to the 1963 Mets, and wasn’t good enough to catch on there. Clint Hartung – the Hondo Hurricaine. Was supposed to be all ready for the Hall of Fame when he started pitching for the Giants in 1947. 29-29 lifetime with a 5.02 ERA. Seeing that pitching wasn’t his game, the Giants converted him into an outfielder, where he appeared in 39 games (plus two games of the 1951 WS). Though he actually hit pretty well as a full-time pitcher, his BA the years he was playing outfield was .213. ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2002, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biggest-busts-in-the-history-of-us-sport/121072/43 "2002-07-29T13:49:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Lorenzo \* > \*\* > Allege: to affirm without necessarily being able to prove. > > As a matter of principle, I don’t state that anyone has a problem with alcohol or drugs without having personally witnessed it. That’s my preference, not ignorance of the facts. \*\* The facts show that he failed numerous drug tests. Now, you can prefer to ignore those facts, but it’s still ignorance. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2002, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biggest-busts-in-the-history-of-us-sport/121072/44 "2002-07-29T16:12:48Z")
Some more: **Joe Charbonneau** – Rookie of the year in 1980, but batted less than .215 in parts of two seasons after that. **John Huarte** – Heisman trophy winner, and signer of a $100,000 bonus for the New York Jets – big money in 1964. However, the Jets spent four times that amount for Joe Namath shortly afterward. Guess who got the playing time? Huarte didn’t play a down for the Jets. He was soon shipped to Boston, where he couldn’t catch on there. Lifetime, he has a total of 19 NFL completions, a slight drop from the 114 he had as a senior at Notre Dame. As a group, the Heisman trophy winners have done poorly in the NFL (partly because the award often goes to a QB, who is then drafted by a terrible team and forced to play immediately). Those who had little impact on the NFL include **Gary Beban, Terry Baker, Gino Torretta, Archie Griffin** (an especially big bust since he was a two-time Heisman winner), **Joe Bellino** and **John Lattner**. And there are nine Heisman winners who never played pro football at all (though you probably should exclude Ernie Davis, who died). ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2002, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biggest-busts-in-the-history-of-us-sport/121072/45 "2002-07-29T17:10:23Z")
Tony Mandrich - The Cowboys were seriously thinking about taking him instead of Aikman. Whew! ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2002, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biggest-busts-in-the-history-of-us-sport/121072/46 "2002-07-29T17:12:24Z")
Oh yeah, let’s not forget Brian Bosworth. ---
**Author:** ![Lorenzo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4da419/32.png) [@Lorenzo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lorenzo)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2002, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biggest-busts-in-the-history-of-us-sport/121072/47 "2002-07-29T17:12:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Snooooopy \* > \*\* > > I am INSANE, and I agree with everything you say! > > 🙂 \*\* 😃😃😃 ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2002, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biggest-busts-in-the-history-of-us-sport/121072/48 "2002-07-29T17:21:08Z")
Upon reread, I see that you, Lorenzo, in fact did not forget Bosworth. ---
**Author:** ![Lorenzo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4da419/32.png) [@Lorenzo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lorenzo)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2002, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biggest-busts-in-the-history-of-us-sport/121072/49 "2002-07-29T18:54:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lieu \* > \*\*Upon reread, I see that you, Lorenzo, in fact did not forget Bosworth. \*\* I’m just glad someone else feels the same way about the 'Bos. ---
**Author:** ![WSLer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a6a055/32.png) [@WSLer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WSLer)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2002, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biggest-busts-in-the-history-of-us-sport/121072/50 "2002-07-30T00:22:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Lorenzo \* > \*\* > > Would it be okay, then, to display my ignorance of the facts for only a few to see? > > Allege: to affirm without necessarily being able to prove. > > As a matter of principle, I don’t state that anyone has a problem with alcohol or drugs without having personally witnessed it. That’s my preference, not ignorance of the facts. \*\* Gee, then I guess Sid Vicious died of something that had the exact same symptoms of, but was definitely **NOT** a drug overdose of \*\*ANY \*\* kind especially \*\*NOT \*\* heroin. And I guess Kurt Cobain wasn’t addicted to any drugs, especially **NOT** heroin, but rather was addicted to Fruit Loops. You sir, are living in **Candyland.** And you sir, are in fatc, a fucking idiot.:wally :wally :wally :wally ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2002, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biggest-busts-in-the-history-of-us-sport/121072/51 "2002-07-30T00:39:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Lorenzo \* > [ > I do have a slight bias against Bill Walton. > > Walton was coached by those among the best, John Wooden and Jack Ramsey, won championships at UCLA, was surrounded by excellent players at Portland who played “team” basketball years before it became fashionable, yet won only one championship with Portland and that in the merger year with the ABA. > > Tired of his fragility caused in great part by Walton’s strict vegetarian diet lacking in protein, the Blazers dealt Walton to the lowly Clippers where he dropped off the radar entirely, missing two complete seasons and numerous other games in six forgettable seasons. > > Walton finished his career with Boston as a 3rd/4th string center, a caricature of himself in his prime. When asked of Walton’s contributions to the Celtics, Larry Bird replied that the Celtics won their games DESPITE Walton being on the team. > > I would surmise that Walton is in the HOF primarily for his college heorics and '74-77 with the Blazers. The guy is probably the most intelligent center in the history of the game, blessed with size, talent and ability, great coaching and yet amounts to only one NBA chamionship to his credit in a year diluted by the merger plus only four remarkable seasons. IMHO, with a better diet, he could have, would have and should have been so much better. > > imthjckaz’s argument is limited to Walton’s inclusion in the HOF and the NBA Top 50 at 50. Recalling that the BB HOF includes college, NBA, and Women’s BB, I’ll repeat that it is most likely that Walton made the HOF based on his UCLA career and his first four years at Portland. > > How does a guy with only four really good seasons make the NBA top 50? I have no idea. Based on his NBA career alone, I’d say Walton was a very marginal choice as NBA Top 50 and would not have been inducted into the BB HOF without his play at UCLA. > > Certainly, Bill Walton is not a bust in the sense of a top-hyped collegiate lottery pick who signs for millions and never scores a point. > > I’d just say he could have done a lot better, come closer to achieving his potential and been a dominant center for a much longer time if he had adpted a better diet, not unlike Daryl Strawberry whose career was significantly diminished by his alleged problems with drugs and John Daly whose career was significantly diminished by his alleged problems with alcohol. > > \*\* So, Strawberry and Daly have “alleged” substance abuse problems because you didn’t see them, but you know that Walton suffered from a protein deficiency. I don’t buy that. Were you monitoring enzyme levels of Walton’s liver? Were you sitting in examining rooms with Walton’s doctors? Couldn’t if just be a case that Walton was just a player who was injury-prone? It happens. ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2002, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biggest-busts-in-the-history-of-us-sport/121072/52 "2002-07-30T02:16:41Z")
::nudges **WSLer** :: This ain’t the pit, man:) Gotta reaffirm Heath Shuler and add that guy who went to OSU, took, like, golf and “what every college student should know about AIDS”, so he could keep his GPA up, then got drafted by the Pats and hasn’t done much of anything remarkable since. ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2002, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biggest-busts-in-the-history-of-us-sport/121072/53 "2002-07-30T03:34:40Z")
Andy Katzenmoyer perhaps? ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2002, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biggest-busts-in-the-history-of-us-sport/121072/54 "2002-07-30T12:19:24Z")
There could be an entire thread just on free-agent busts… You could reasonably argue that Tim Belcher was a bit of a bust, although he played many years in the majors - he was a #1 draft pick and never lived to his initial promise. ---
**Author:** ![Snooooopy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Snooooopy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snooooopy)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2002, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biggest-busts-in-the-history-of-us-sport/121072/55 "2002-07-30T12:29:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by iampunha \* > \*\*::nudges **WSLer** :: > > This ain’t the pit, man:) > > Gotta reaffirm Heath Shuler and add that guy who went to OSU, took, like, golf and “what every college student should know about AIDS”, so he could keep his GPA up, then got drafted by the Pats and hasn’t done much of anything remarkable since. \*\* If OSU = Oklahoma St. as opposed to Oregon St., then you’re thinking of wide receiver Hart Lee Dykes. Goddamn, did he fall off the planet! I recall that that draft featured two highly rated wideouts – Dykes and Michigan St.'s Andre Rison. So maybe the Pats did well enough to avoid adding such a malcontent. ---
**Author:** ![imthjckaz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/imthjckaz/32/3223_2.png) [@imthjckaz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/imthjckaz)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2002, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biggest-busts-in-the-history-of-us-sport/121072/56 "2002-07-30T13:31:48Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Lorenzo_\*\* > “At least not all the sane people.” ??? > > Insanity is a pretty serious innuendo, Mr. imthjckaz. Just because you disagree with someone else does not justify namecalling…blah yadda blah yadda blah yadda…but don’t make it personal and suggest a sane person would not agree with one of my definitions. \*\* > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Snooooopy_\*\* > I am INSANE, and I agree with everything you say!\*\* Snooooopy is not sane. That being said, Mr. Lorenzo, you have your opinions, and I have mine. Your’s just happens to be wrong. But if you’re willing to live with that, so am I. Have a nice day. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2002, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biggest-busts-in-the-history-of-us-sport/121072/57 "2002-07-31T02:41:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by WSLer \* > \*\* > > Gee, then I guess Sid Vicious died of something that had the exact same symptoms of, but was definitely **NOT** a drug overdose of \*\*ANY \*\* kind especially \*\*NOT \*\* heroin. > > And I guess Kurt Cobain wasn’t addicted to any drugs, especially **NOT** heroin, but rather was addicted to Fruit Loops. > > You sir, are living in **Candyland.** > > And you sir, are in fatc, a fucking idiot.:wally :wally :wally :wally \*\* This type of posting will _not_ be tolerated in IMHO again. Consider this to be a formal warning, **WSLer**. ---
**Author:** ![Lorenzo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4da419/32.png) [@Lorenzo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lorenzo)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2002, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biggest-busts-in-the-history-of-us-sport/121072/58 "2002-07-31T03:20:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by imthjckaz \* > \*\* > > Snooooopy is not sane. > > That being said, Mr. Lorenzo, you have your opinions, and I have mine. > Your’s just happens to be wrong. > But if you’re willing to live with that, so am I. > > Have a nice day. \*\* Opinions are opinions and as long as they are supported by facts, examples, theory, personal experience, logic, intuition, other types of reasoning, etc., then they become informed opinions which I do not believe can be judged wrong or right. At the SDMB one of the precepts is that we are to respect each other’s opinions in IMHO. I really do hope that you have read in my posts that I do have a bias against Bill Walton and that he is NOT a bust in the sense of a 1st round draft choice that never scores a point. Based on his NBA career, I question his induction into the HOF, but that is the topic of another thread. I give you credit for not getting exasperated and losing your temper or engaging in behavior not becoming of a gentleman. I think we both agree that Bill Walton is not a bust in the conventional sense of the word. Let’s move on. ---
**Author:** ![imthjckaz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/imthjckaz/32/3223_2.png) [@imthjckaz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/imthjckaz)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2002, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biggest-busts-in-the-history-of-us-sport/121072/59 "2002-07-31T03:27:18Z")
Agreed ---
**Author:** ![Lorenzo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4da419/32.png) [@Lorenzo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lorenzo)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2002, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biggest-busts-in-the-history-of-us-sport/121072/60 "2002-07-31T03:42:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by BobT \* > \*\* > > So, Strawberry and Daly have “alleged” substance abuse problems because you didn’t see them, but you know that Walton suffered from a protein deficiency. I don’t buy that. Were you monitoring enzyme levels of Walton’s liver? Were you sitting in examining rooms with Walton’s doctors?\*\* Call it irrational, but I am less paranoid of accusing someone of being a vegetarian than I am of accusing someone of illegal drug use. Does it have to make sense? Seriously, I believe Walton’s protein-deficient vegetarian diet was common knowledge and commonly accepted as fact while he was a Trailblazer. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biggest-busts-in-the-history-of-us-sport/121072.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biggest-busts-in-the-history-of-us-sport/121072.md?page=4)