# Biggest Collapse of Relevance/Importance/Respect? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 9, 2010, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biggest-collapse-of-relevance-importance-respect/556568 "2010-10-09T02:53:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Tastes\_of\_Chocolate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tastes_of_chocolate/32/3232_2.png) [@Tastes\_of\_Chocolate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tastes_of_Chocolate)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2010, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biggest-collapse-of-relevance-importance-respect/556568/21 "2010-10-11T21:47:11Z")
Jim Bakker made a pretty good run at the title, for someone not in politics. In the '80s, Jim and Tammy had 10+ million viewers to their TV show, and ran Heritage USA, the 3rd largest amusement park in the US. A couple of years later, he was in prision, found guilty of 24 counts of mail fraud, wire fraud and conspiracy. Hmm, I hadn’t know that he shared a cell with Lyndon LaRouche. Bet that lead to some interesting conversations. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2010, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biggest-collapse-of-relevance-importance-respect/556568/22 "2010-10-11T22:24:03Z")
> [@Hippy\_Hollow](#): > > The OP is looking for people who have “cratered.” I would say being one of the three major world powers at the end of WWII, arguably ending Hitler’s war machine, to being erased from history is pretty spectacular. For a fairly closed society that doesn’t like to admit to mistakes, that was huge. Dissidents in the Soviet Union were dealt with harshly up until the end of the empire, so for a group of such tough actors to say, “Hey, that guy was really off the reservation,” that’s pretty huge. The OP specified people, but, as you alluded, it could be successfully argued that the largest collapse of relevance/respect in the past 100 years was that of the USSR (or, to go wider, the entire European Communist bloc) from 1989-1992. In 1988 nobody expected European Communism to be peacefully swept away in a tide of indifference and exhaustion, but that’s pretty much what happened. ---
**Author:** ![Icarus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icarus/32/72_2.png) [@Icarus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icarus)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2010, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biggest-collapse-of-relevance-importance-respect/556568/23 "2010-10-12T00:07:33Z")
How about Johnny Carson? He was such a universally admired figure as host of the Tonight Show for so many years. When he retired he deliberately shunned the public eye (I think he appeared in a random Letterman skit once). So, in terms of the “importance” category I think he rates a mention. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2010, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biggest-collapse-of-relevance-importance-respect/556568/24 "2010-10-12T00:25:08Z")
> [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](#): > > But I wish to draw your attention to Oliver North. Ollie was the darling of the GOP, so he ran for Senate. The Democrats splintered with a black guy and a the former governor. The governor swore he only got a back rub from Miss Virginia. If he did, he was an idiot. In any case, Ollie still lost. Further now that the Tea Party is big, do you see Ollie? > > Without a doubt one of the greatest declines in American politics. Burying all that gold under Stan Smith’s house probably didn’t help either. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Otara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a88e4f/32.png) [@Otara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otara)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2010, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biggest-collapse-of-relevance-importance-respect/556568/25 "2010-10-12T00:32:57Z")
Clinton? Otara ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2010, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biggest-collapse-of-relevance-importance-respect/556568/26 "2010-10-12T00:35:32Z")
> [@Lust4Life](#): > > As a group Firemen in the U.K. > > It used to be that we all admired these men and women (myself included) for going out and risking their lives everyday. > > But when they took industrial action their work was investigated and it was found that actual firefighting was a relatively rare occurance and that they spent a lot of their time on sleeping watches or playing snooker while awaiting to be called out. “Took industrial action”? > [@JohnT](#): > > The OP specified people, but, as you alluded, it could be successfully argued that the largest collapse of relevance/respect in the past 100 years was that of the USSR (or, to go wider, the entire European Communist bloc) from 1989-1992. In 1988 nobody expected European Communism to be peacefully swept away in a tide of indifference and exhaustion, but that’s pretty much what happened. Since the OP did specify people, I’ll go for a variation on what you said and say “Karl Marx”. His reputation in much of the world went from being a near deified prophet of the inevitable course of history to being the progenitor of a disastrous failed movement. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2010, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biggest-collapse-of-relevance-importance-respect/556568/27 "2010-10-12T01:06:54Z")
> [@MOIDALIZE](#): > > Howard Dean’s campaign in 2004 seemed to be going well, with lots of grassroots support, a big campaign warchest, and early front-runner status. But then he came in 3rd in the Iowa caucuses. He’s done pretty well for himself since 2004, he certainly dropped in relevance after '04, but I don’t think he really “cratered”. John Edwards was more or less on a slow decline prior to his sex-scandal, he went from VP candidate in '04 to “also ran” status after '08, I doubt he would’ve been much of a power even if he had kept his libido in check. Emperor Hirohito dropped from being a deity when Japan surrenderd in WWII to just being a run of the mill symbolic monarch. Thats a pretty tall height to come down from. ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2010, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biggest-collapse-of-relevance-importance-respect/556568/28 "2010-10-12T01:19:35Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > “Took industrial action”? I believe that is british english for “went on strike” ---
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2010, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biggest-collapse-of-relevance-importance-respect/556568/29 "2010-10-12T01:53:07Z")
Hitler. Started as a kooky chieftain who failed to overthrow the government to having one of the most powerful and feared militaries in the world. He was the uncontested leader of all affairs in Germany and was either adored or dreaded by anyone under his control. With better strategy, he might have been able to take out Russia and have access to massive natural resources. With better diplomacy, he might have delayed the USA’s entry into the war. Some more time spent on research and he would have had nukzis. He had a shot at making the whole world in his image. Now teenagers make him say funny stuff in captioned videos on Youtube. The German government is deathly afraid of looking even possibly aggressive in international affairs. It financially helps Israel whose creation Hitler is largely responsible for. Europe was split for more than 40 years between liberal democracies and communists. He killed himself in a bunker as the Red Army was approaching. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2010, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biggest-collapse-of-relevance-importance-respect/556568/30 "2010-10-12T01:55:57Z")
> [@MichaelEmouse](#): > > Hitler. > > Started as a kooky chieftain who failed to overthrow the government to having one of the most powerful and feared militaries in the world. He had ttotal control over what happened in Germany. With better strategy, he might have been able to take out Russia and have access to massive natural resources. With better diplomacy, he might have delayed the USA’s entry into the war. Some more time spent on research and he would have had nukzis. > Now teenagers make him say funny stuff in captioned videos on Youtube. > > The German government is deathly afraid of looking even possibly aggressive in international affairs. It financially helps Israel whose creation Hitler is largely responsible for. Europe was split for more than 40 years between liberal democracies and communists. He killed himself in a bunker as the Red Army was approaching. Well, in the allied countries were making fun of Hitler pretty much as soon as he came to power. Granted his respect in Germany is a lot less then it used to be, but even that was over the span of years as Germany’s fortunes in the war went from good to bad to doomed. ---
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2010, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biggest-collapse-of-relevance-importance-respect/556568/31 "2010-10-12T02:01:08Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > > [@MichaelEmouse](#): > > > > Hitler. > > > > Started as a kooky chieftain who failed to overthrow the government to having one of the most powerful and feared militaries in the world. He had ttotal control over what happened in Germany. With better strategy, he might have been able to take out Russia and have access to massive natural resources. With better diplomacy, he might have delayed the USA’s entry into the war. Some more time spent on research and he would have had nukzis. > > Now teenagers make him say funny stuff in captioned videos on Youtube. > > > > The German government is deathly afraid of looking even possibly aggressive in international affairs. It financially helps Israel whose creation Hitler is largely responsible for. Europe was split for more than 40 years between liberal democracies and communists. He killed himself in a bunker as the Red Army was approaching. > > Well, in the allied countries were making fun of Hitler pretty much as soon as he came to power. Granted his respect in Germany is a lot less then it used to be, but even that was over the span of years as Germany’s fortunes in the war went from good to bad to doomed. It is true that he was not respected by all, not even in the sense of fearful respect. He still had plenty of relevance and importance, though. Perhaps the most important man of the 20th century in the same way Ben Laden was arguably the most important man of 2001. ---
**Author:** ![rowrrbazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rowrrbazzle/32/414_2.png) [@rowrrbazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rowrrbazzle)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2010, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biggest-collapse-of-relevance-importance-respect/556568/32 "2010-10-13T01:48:19Z")
Barack Obama. Obama, nomination acceptance speech, June 2008: > [@](#): > > Because if we are willing to work for it, and fight for it, and believe in it, then I am absolutely certain that generations from now, we will be able to look back and tell our children that this was the moment when we began to provide care for the sick and good jobs to the jobless; this was the moment when the rise of the oceans began to slow and our planet began to heal; this was the moment when we ended a war and secured our nation and restored our image as the last, best hope on earth. This was the moment—this was the time—when we came together to remake this great nation so that it may always reflect our very best selves and our highest ideals. Evan Thomas, editor of _Newsweek_, June 2009: > [@](#): > > …in a way Obama’s standing above the country, above the world, he’s sort of God. Mark Halperin, _Time_ magazine, October 11, 2010 [http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,2024718,00.html#ixzz12CPY0CsK](http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,2024718,00.html#ixzz12CPY0CsK) > [@](#): > > With the exception of core Obama Administration loyalists, most politically engaged elites have reached the same conclusions: \*\*the White House is in over its head, isolated, insular, arrogant and clueless about how to get along with or persuade members of Congress, the media, the business community or working-class voters. \*\*This view is held by Fox News pundits, executives and anchors at the major old-media outlets, reporters who cover the White House, Democratic and Republican congressional leaders and governors, many Democratic business people and lawyers who raised big money for Obama in 2008, and even some members of the Administration just beyond the inner circle. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2010, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biggest-collapse-of-relevance-importance-respect/556568/33 "2010-10-13T01:53:39Z")
Wishful thinking. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2010, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biggest-collapse-of-relevance-importance-respect/556568/34 "2010-10-13T01:55:05Z")
The first thing that came to my mind was OJ Simpson, just in terms of public mage. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2010, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biggest-collapse-of-relevance-importance-respect/556568/35 "2010-10-13T02:00:18Z")
> [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](#): > > But I wish to draw your attention to Oliver North. > … > Further now that the Tea Party is big, do you see Ollie? > > Without a doubt one of the greatest declines in American politics. Oliver North was a speaker at, and point of promotion for, this past summer’s NRA conference in Charlotte, along with Sarah Palin, Glenn Beck, Newt Gingrich and Chuck Norris. People like Haley Barbour and John Thune were there too, but I think North was a bigger draw than them. ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2010, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biggest-collapse-of-relevance-importance-respect/556568/36 "2010-10-13T02:04:28Z")
John DeLorean went from big wig designer at GM, responsible for developing the GTO and Firebird, to leaving GM to create his own car (the DeLorean, of course) to trying to support his struggling car company by smuggling cocaine to closing up shop within a couple years of opening the doors. The car is somewhat of a collectible now, but if not for Michael J. Fox, nobody would probably care about it. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2010, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biggest-collapse-of-relevance-importance-respect/556568/37 "2010-10-13T02:16:52Z")
> [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](#): > > John DeLorean went from big wig designer at GM :::chuckling at image of DeLorean carefully poring over drawings of toupees:::: ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2010, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biggest-collapse-of-relevance-importance-respect/556568/38 "2010-10-13T02:55:05Z")
I’d say Colin Powell following his presentation on WMD to the UN if we restrict it to the past 10 years or so. In fact his entire reputation was what made him the perfect choice for the Administration of the time. Previous to that he was a perennial potential running mate to various people and even mentioned as the first black president. He’s now seen as a compromised naif that was led down the garden path. ---
**Author:** ![Hippy\_Hollow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hippy_hollow/32/4841_2.png) [@Hippy\_Hollow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hippy_Hollow)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2010, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biggest-collapse-of-relevance-importance-respect/556568/39 "2010-10-13T04:07:11Z")
> [@Grey](#): > > I’d say Colin Powell following his presentation on WMD to the UN if we restrict it to the past 10 years or so. In fact his entire reputation was what made him the perfect choice for the Administration of the time. Previous to that he was a perennial potential running mate to various people and even mentioned as the first black president. > > He’s now seen as a compromised naif that was led down the garden path. Yeah, excellent choice. He’s trying to repair his image by making mea culpas and working on urban education issues, but yeah. He was the one credible voice in the Bush cabinet - because of him, I supported the invasion of Iraq - and to me, his complicity in starting the war is equally disappointing and tragic. I think it’s fair to say that both Dems and Republicans respected Powell before 2001. Now I don’t think either party really gives him the time of day. George W. Bush probably deserves to be mentioned here. Leader of the free world, demonstrated some concept of leadership post-9/11 (standing on the rubble at Ground Zero), victorious on the aircraft deck: “mission accomplished.” Has anyone seen this guy since he left the White House? His dad and Clinton are players on the international and philanthropy scene, Carter is doing his thing… I’ve only literally seen him on SportsCenter at a Cowboys game. I know people will say they didn’t respect him in the first place, but I wonder if that guy can even get a table at an RNC event? The GOP is the party of tea partiers and Palin - they’ve undergone a de-Bushification themselves. Pretty amazing, as the incumbent in the White House is receiving massive abuse regarding the state of the economy, war effort, unemployment, etc., and a substantial proportion of the US populace seems to forget these are all situations created by the previous officeholder… ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2010, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biggest-collapse-of-relevance-importance-respect/556568/40 "2010-10-14T13:02:19Z")
Specifically, Cardinal Law of Boston. He went from being a respected church leader to a an unindicted felon. The man revealed (in questioning) an almost total lack of comprehension about what some of the priests in his diocese were up to (child molestation). He was made aware of some terrible activity (by a priest named John Geoghan), but did nothing about it. His solution for the activities of these pedophiles? Transfer them to another parish (where their evil deeds were unknown). As far as I know, Law has never expressed any remorse for his behavior. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biggest-collapse-of-relevance-importance-respect/556568.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biggest-collapse-of-relevance-importance-respect/556568.md?page=3)