# Biggest (Most Disappointing) Celebrity Sellouts **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 13, 2009, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biggest-most-disappointing-celebrity-sellouts/489344 "2009-03-13T17:13:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2009, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biggest-most-disappointing-celebrity-sellouts/489344/61 "2009-03-14T21:52:47Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > Who cares if you do? I was pointing that calling Liz Phair a “sellout” when she did exactly what she set out to do with her album “Liz Phair” is an idiotic thing to do. > > ETA: So there’s no perspective to be had. The people who do this are wrong, plain and simple. Oh, bullshit. One doesn’t “sellout” by accident, it usually happens because one “sets out to do it”. I don’t know dick about her new album, but quit feeding me a bunch of crap about how people who didn’t like Liz Phair’s change of direction are idiots. I don’t give a rip what she said in some interview you read somewhere, a lot of people obviously think she’s full of shit. That doesn’t make them idiots, only cynical. There’s nothing plain and simple about it, it just seems to me you can’t handle a different perspective. ---
**Author:** ![tumbleddown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@tumbleddown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tumbleddown)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2009, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biggest-most-disappointing-celebrity-sellouts/489344/62 "2009-03-15T03:00:54Z")
> [@RikWriter](#): > > I am, quite frankly, uninterested in your political views or your views of Ron Silver’s views. The point was, people CHANGE their political views without “selling out.” And my point was in support of your premise in the case of Ron Silver. He hasn’t sold out, he’s _lost his freaking mind_. And that? Is something totally different. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2009, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biggest-most-disappointing-celebrity-sellouts/489344/63 "2009-03-15T11:14:45Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > Oh, bullshit. One doesn’t “sellout” by accident, it usually happens because one “sets out to do it”. I don’t know dick about her new album, but quit feeding me a bunch of crap about how people who didn’t like Liz Phair’s change of direction are idiots. I don’t give a rip what she said in some interview you read somewhere, a lot of people obviously think she’s full of shit. That doesn’t make them idiots, only cynical. There’s nothing plain and simple about it, it just seems to me you can’t handle a different perspective. Oh please. This is exactly why the argument is stupid. You can’t go around worshipping some artist and believing that every word they say is gospel and then claim “Sellout!” and “Liar!” when they say something you disagree with or put out an album you don’t like. ---
**Author:** ![RikWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2009, 11:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biggest-most-disappointing-celebrity-sellouts/489344/64 "2009-03-15T11:20:32Z")
> [@The\_Tooth](#): > > I remember him taking a chainsaw to bits of the Middow East on the World Map background of his Weekend Update set. 9/11 affected him like Gamma rays did Bill Bixby. > > And no, Mr. Miller. We don’t like you when you’re angry. No, YOU don’t like him when he’s angry. ---
**Author:** ![RikWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2009, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biggest-most-disappointing-celebrity-sellouts/489344/65 "2009-03-15T11:21:32Z")
> [@tumbleddown](#): > > And my point was in support of your premise in the case of Ron Silver. He hasn’t sold out, he’s _lost his freaking mind_. And that? Is something totally different. That’s your opinion, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2009, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biggest-most-disappointing-celebrity-sellouts/489344/66 "2009-03-15T13:23:30Z")
> [@Baker](#): > > I couldn’t have written this post better. It’s just what I wanted to say. Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![Sunshine\_and\_Smiles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Sunshine\_and\_Smiles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunshine_and_Smiles)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2009, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biggest-most-disappointing-celebrity-sellouts/489344/67 "2009-03-15T17:45:26Z")
Billy Corgan recently testified before Congress in support of Ticketmaster/LiveNation merger. As one poster a while back said, “Just go away already” ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2009, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biggest-most-disappointing-celebrity-sellouts/489344/68 "2009-03-16T00:22:54Z")
Bob Dylan was accused of selling out for going electric in 1965. That was the last time in American culture the words “selling out” could be taken seriously. Dylan rejected the charge. Rock rejected the charge. The world rejected the charge. That was the end of selling out. Good thing, too. ---
**Author:** ![well\_he\_s\_back](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/3ab097/32.png) [@well\_he\_s\_back](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/well_he_s_back)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2009, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biggest-most-disappointing-celebrity-sellouts/489344/69 "2009-03-16T05:35:44Z")
I haven’t read through the entire thread (been away a while) but the first thing that came to mind after reading the OP was hearing Bob Dylan’s “Forever Young” in an ad for Pepsi the other day. I have (had) some special personal associations with that song and they had nothing to do with Pepsi. ---
**Author:** ![zagloba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/977dab/32.png) [@zagloba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zagloba)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2009, 10:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biggest-most-disappointing-celebrity-sellouts/489344/70 "2009-03-16T10:40:14Z")
> [@tumbleddown](#): > > Ron Silver, post 9/11, became infected with a near pathological level of fear/loathing of what he still refers to as Islamofascist terrorists. [Not anymore.](http://www.newsday.com/services/newspaper/printedition/monday/news/ny-silver166071331mar16,0,2199339.story) ---
**Author:** ![Redfrost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9fc29f/32.png) [@Redfrost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Redfrost)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2009, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biggest-most-disappointing-celebrity-sellouts/489344/71 "2009-03-16T13:57:01Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > After R.E.M. turned down Microsoft’s first choice: _It’s the end of the world as we know it (and I feel fine.)_ > > Michael Stipe explained at the time that he used Microsoft software and liked it, but he didn’t feel comfortable associating the song with a commercial product. I guess that’s a good example of not “selling out” considering how much money was on the table. Yes, that would be a good example of not selling out. REM has always been about the art. Music is the medium they chose to express themselves. They make music for the sake of expression, to challenge thought, to cause an emotional response…allow the audience to react. Making money for the sole purpose of making money is not necessarily selling out. Music, or any art form, that is produced for the sole purpose of making money is a commercial enterprise, a product manufactured with intent of making a profit. It is the same as Microsoft making Vistas or Pepsi making cola or Gap making clothes. Commercial art is still art, it just has a different intent behind it. Somebody who designs Logos is an artist but the art he/she makes is different in content and intent than someone like Picasso or Rembrant or Dali. Someone who write jingles for products is different from the Rolling Stones or Tool or Nick Drake. An artist who sells out is one who changes intent. The artist goes from making art for the sake of personal expression to making art for the sake of making money. Justin Timberlake, Britney Spears, Madonna, etc have always made a product meant to sell. It was music produced for the masses. The music isn’t necessarily bad, just unappealing to the more discerning listener. I don’t like the music they produce because it sounds cheap and seems to have no other redeeming quality other than “It has a good beat and you can dance to it”. Muscians like Tool or REM make music to promote an idea, a thought, a feeling, a philosophy all designed to elicit an emotional or intellectual response. If they decided to allow their music to be used in a commercial it wouldn’t necessarily be a sell out because the music itself hasn’t changed, they just decided to make a buck on it. Jane’s Addiction sold out with _Strays_, they used to make cutting edge, make-you-think, interesting music that not only me want to move but also made me think and feel. _Strays_ was radio friendly hard rock that sounded nothing like anything else they had released. Then Perry formed Satellite Party, which sounded just like the _Strays_ album. It just happened to suck because it sounded self-indulgent and schmaltzy. It was a weak album. Perry has lost touch with his roots and inspiration. He used to be great, now he is mediocre. Every artist has a slump, I hope his ends soon. I look forward to his next release. ---
**Author:** ![palindromemordnilap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/db5fbb/32.png) [@palindromemordnilap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/palindromemordnilap)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2009, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biggest-most-disappointing-celebrity-sellouts/489344/72 "2009-03-16T14:29:01Z")
Michelangelo. He wanted to do sculpture. He was great at sculpture. A little arm-twisting by the pope and suddenly he’s painting the guy’s ceiling. For, like, four years. WTF? ---
**Author:** ![Redfrost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9fc29f/32.png) [@Redfrost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Redfrost)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2009, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biggest-most-disappointing-celebrity-sellouts/489344/73 "2009-03-16T16:04:31Z")
Still not a sell out scenario. He was commissioned to do a job. It was still his work in his style. Kind of like Trent Reznor doing the score for a movie or video game. The one who commissioned the work wanted what the artist was able to produce. There was no compromise on artistic integrity. Sometimes an artist will do work to pay the bills and to further their own ability to produce the kind of work they want, which is on the slippery slope of selling out but I don’t fault anyone for wanting eat. A starving artist produces no art because he/she can’t afford the supplies to produce, let alone, eat. A “starving artist” who turns down a paying commission just to stick to the principle that he/she won’t “sell out” is a retard who deserves to only be famouse after his/her death, which won’t take long when not eating, or living in a stable home, or practicing basic hygiene, etc. I suppose it comes down to compromising integrity for the sole sake of profit versus personal satisfaction (art for art’s sake). ---
**Author:** ![HumanMonkeyGod](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c67d28/32.png) [@HumanMonkeyGod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HumanMonkeyGod)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biggest-most-disappointing-celebrity-sellouts/489344/74 "2009-03-19T20:53:19Z")
Ice T, rapper of the ‘Cop killer’ song who went on to play a detective in Law and Order. Ice Cube, gangsta rapper and star of movies such as “Are we there yet?” and “All about the Benjamins”. I think Ozzy Osbourne needs a mention too. I suppose one might argue they were all just diversifying their talents… :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Lochdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/edb3f5/32.png) [@Lochdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lochdale)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biggest-most-disappointing-celebrity-sellouts/489344/75 "2009-03-19T22:02:46Z")
> [@Moonchild](#): > > Dennis Miller becoming a mouthpiece for the Right. That’s the most egregious example I can think of. > > Unless he always believed what he says now and was throwing b.s. before. But I don’t think so. I genuinely think that his opinions evolved. If anything, it shows that he reached his views after some consideration. You don’t agree with them but that’s hardly selling out. ---
**Author:** ![Lochdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/edb3f5/32.png) [@Lochdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lochdale)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biggest-most-disappointing-celebrity-sellouts/489344/76 "2009-03-19T22:05:08Z")
> [@RikWriter](#): > > I am, quite frankly, uninterested in your political views or your views of Ron Silver’s views. The point was, people CHANGE their political views without “selling out.” Quoted for truth. Whatever Silver may have been to you, he wasn’t a “sell out”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biggest-most-disappointing-celebrity-sellouts/489344.md?page=3)