# Biggest Worry for 2020 **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [February 11, 2019, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biggest-worry-for-2020/829346 "2019-02-11T17:28:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2019, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biggest-worry-for-2020/829346/41 "2019-02-12T17:20:08Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Can any lawyers here help us out? If Trump is convicted by the Senate, or indicted for felonies, can he run for re-election in 2020? The Senate can choose to impose a penalty on an impeached politician of barring the person for another federal office. > [@](#): > > Article I, Section 3: > The Senate shall have the sole Power to try all Impeachments. When sitting for that Purpose, they shall be on Oath or Affirmation. When the President of the United States is tried, the Chief Justice shall preside: And no Person shall be convicted without the Concurrence of two thirds of the Members present. > > Judgment in Cases of Impeachments shall not extend further than to removal from Office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any Office of honor, Trust, or Profit under the United States, but the Party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to Indictment, Trial, Judgment, and Punishmnet, according to Law. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2019, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biggest-worry-for-2020/829346/42 "2019-02-12T17:37:47Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > The Senate can choose a range of penalties if they convict. One is removal from office, another is a bar from future Federal office. What they choose to impose is up to them. Correct. Article I, Section 3. > [@](#): > > I don’t think being indicted for felonies is a bar from running for Federal office. Being _indicted_ for a crime isn’t a bar to anything. Innocent until proven guilty, and all that. ETA: Should’ve refreshed sooner, I see **Exapno** was there _waaaaay_ ahead of me! ---
**Author:** ![chargerrich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chargerrich/32/5399_2.png) [@chargerrich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chargerrich)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2019, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biggest-worry-for-2020/829346/43 "2019-02-12T17:39:22Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Um, I have quite a lot of questions, actually. Is this true? How do you know it’s true - do you have evidence people are leaving the party? I made no statements of fact, it is my opinion based on about a dozen full blown Dems I have talked about this with. The traditional democratic doctrine is growing as far apart from the ultra left/progressive as Trump is moving away from Reagan’s Republicans. At this point, I am not sure if the Ocasio-Cortez movement is any better than Trump’s. I despise them both for VERY different reasons. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2019, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biggest-worry-for-2020/829346/44 "2019-02-12T17:43:38Z")
> [@chargerrich](#): > > I made no statements of fact, it is my opinion based on about a dozen full blown Dems I have talked about this with. The traditional democratic doctrine is growing as far apart from the ultra left/progressive as Trump is moving away from Reagan’s Republicans. > > At this point, I am not sure if the Ocasio-Cortez movement is any better than Trump’s. I despise them both for VERY different reasons. Universal health care, higher minimum wage, higher taxes on the rich, increased emphasis on green energy and reduction in fossil fuel usage, and social justice (LGBTQ rights, civil/voting rights, opposing racism and bigotry, etc.) have been core parts of the “traditional” Democratic party doctrine for decades. There’s disagreement on the best way to achieve those core goals, but your assertions above strike me as highly contrary to the facts. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2019, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biggest-worry-for-2020/829346/45 "2019-02-12T18:06:07Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > The trouble is that we likely have different standards on who counts as “a decent person”. Yes it appears your bar is significantly lower than mine. For example, a lot of these democratic candidates, Harris especially, dont come close to decent. Others like Gabbard and Sanders do. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2019, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biggest-worry-for-2020/829346/46 "2019-02-12T18:11:35Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Yes it appears your bar is significantly lower than mine. LOL. In case you’re actually interested in some sort of discussion on this, you are incorrect. Some folks think that some of the things you have advocated (like relying on the hope of charity to take care of those whose care would be unprofitable, or opposing civil rights laws, just for a couple of examples) are profoundly immoral/indecent. Thus it’s not about “lower” or higher bars, but rather that our standards of morality/decency are profoundly different. It can be difficult to comprehend that others may think in very different ways from yourself, but hopefully this helps you understand this. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2019, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biggest-worry-for-2020/829346/47 "2019-02-12T19:32:07Z")
Btw…politics are so screwed up in this country…I would bet 95% of us here could raise Trumps approval rating with our hands tied behind our backs. I’m dead serious. “Donnie. Baby. Just appear reasonable. Make a series of moves over time to make yourself appear more Presidential. The bar has been set so low that it will be easy. Tomorrow admit that you spend too much time on Twitter and you’ll use it only for non-toxic means. Next week, make some kind of anti-war gesture. ANY KIND…Look Donnie, right now the Democratic platform is ‘Just be Anti-Trump’. By appearing more rational, you will force them to appear more and more irrational as they oppose anything you say.” ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2019, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biggest-worry-for-2020/829346/48 "2019-02-12T22:34:16Z")
If Trump could take rational advice, he wouldn’t be Trump. ---
**Author:** ![SpoilerVirgin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2019, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biggest-worry-for-2020/829346/49 "2019-02-12T23:04:25Z")
> [@chargerrich](#): > > I made no statements of fact, it is my opinion based on about a dozen full blown Dems I have talked about this with. Have you talked to a dozen full blown Dems who say that they would vote for Trump over the Democratic candidate in 2020? Or not vote at all, and allow Trump to win by default? Because that’s what we’re talking about. I swore I would never vote for Hillary Clinton, and then when it came down to it, I **had** to vote for her when confronted with the alternative. I know of no Democrat who at this stage is saying that they will not support a Democrat for President. Are you saying that you know people who truly believe that it would be better to have Trump for another four years than to have a progressive in office? ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2019, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biggest-worry-for-2020/829346/50 "2019-02-12T23:38:02Z")
> [@SpoilerVirgin](#): > > Have you talked to a dozen full blown Dems who say that they would vote for Trump over the Democratic candidate in 2020? Or not vote at all, and allow Trump to win by default? > > Because that’s what we’re talking about. I swore I would never vote for Hillary Clinton, and then when it came down to it, I **had** to vote for her when confronted with the alternative. > > I know of no Democrat who at this stage is saying that they will not support a Democrat for President. Are you saying that you know people who truly believe that it would be better to have Trump for another four years than to have a progressive in office? Look at it from another angle…what has the Dem party done to convince the Sitter-outers, the Jill Stein voters, the ‘Bernie bros’ to vote this time? Are you solely counting on “Ughhhh…Trump sucks, I gots to vote him out”? Cause IMHO that effect is not as great as many seem to believe. ---
**Author:** ![SpoilerVirgin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2019, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biggest-worry-for-2020/829346/51 "2019-02-13T01:08:06Z")
> [@Dale\_Sams](#): > > Look at it from another angle…what has the Dem party done to convince the Sitter-outers, the Jill Stein voters, the ‘Bernie bros’ to vote this time? Are you solely counting on “Ughhhh…Trump sucks, I gots to vote him out”? Cause IMHO that effect is not as great as many seem to believe. I was just responding to the OP, who seems think that the social/progressive movement is driving away moderate/centrist Democrats (and offered up a dozen Democrats as examples). How to win over progressive voters is a separate question. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2019, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biggest-worry-for-2020/829346/52 "2019-02-13T02:09:10Z")
> [@chargerrich](#): > > If Trump wins in 2020 i lay the blame firmly at the feet of the democrats inability to coalesce into a unified party. Bullshit. It is the patriotic duty of every voter who doesn’t hate America to vote for the Democratic Party candidate for every elected position in the country, and to do so consistently until the Republican Party no longer exists. Once that task is complete, we will see what is still needful wrt ending the existence of the Democratic Party. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2019, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biggest-worry-for-2020/829346/53 "2019-02-13T02:18:04Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > I would just like a decent person. The bar is low. And no Republican clears it. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2019, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biggest-worry-for-2020/829346/54 "2019-02-13T02:18:24Z")
> [@chargerrich](#): > > The democratic party is becoming splintered more by the day and whether you love or despise Ocasio-Cortez, the “new green deal” and social/progressive movement there is no question it is driving away the moderate/centrist democrats. > > If Trump wins in 2020 i lay the blame firmly at the feet of the democrats inability to coalesce into a unified party. What I’ve never understood is that why is it that no matter how far to the right the GOP does, they never alienate voters but the democrats have to avoid moving to the left for fear of alienating voters. Trump was very polarizing, he still got more votes than Romney. The GOP is a neofascist party at this point, they still get 60-65 million votes in elections. If the democrats become true progressives, I’d assume they’d still get 60-65 million votes just like the GOP does. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2019, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biggest-worry-for-2020/829346/55 "2019-02-13T02:34:50Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Yes it appears your bar is significantly lower than mine. For example, a lot of these democratic candidates, Harris especially, dont come close to decent. Others like Gabbard and Sanders do. I don’t think you quite understand what the point was. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2019, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biggest-worry-for-2020/829346/56 "2019-02-13T07:16:53Z")
> [@chargerrich](#): > > The democratic party is becoming splintered more by the day and whether you love or despise Ocasio-Cortez, the “new green deal” and social/progressive movement there is no question it is driving away the moderate/centrist democrats. Cite? ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2019, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biggest-worry-for-2020/829346/57 "2019-02-13T13:04:36Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > LOL. > > In case you’re actually interested in some sort of discussion on this, you are incorrect. Some folks think that some of the things you have advocated (like relying on the hope of charity to take care of those whose care would be unprofitable, or opposing civil rights laws, just for a couple of examples) are profoundly immoral/indecent. Thus it’s not about “lower” or higher bars, but rather that our standards of morality/decency are profoundly different. > > It can be difficult to comprehend that others may think in very different ways from yourself, but hopefully this helps you understand this. My bar is based on how much initiation of state violence is permissible. On this metric, your bar is much much lower based on your preferred policies. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2019, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biggest-worry-for-2020/829346/58 "2019-02-13T13:06:52Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > My bar is based on how much initiation of state violence is permissible. On this metric, your bar is much much lower based on your preferred policies. You’ve generally been incredibly inaccurate when you’ve tried to state my preferred policies, so you’ll excuse me if this strikes me as an information-free assertion. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2019, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biggest-worry-for-2020/829346/59 "2019-02-13T15:40:37Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > My bar is based on how much initiation of state violence is permissible… Pro-tip for **Will** : People might take you slightly more seriously if you could hoist your petard on a more sensical meme than “state violence.” As someone who has had some … quibbles … with the IRS, I’ll say that getting them to answer the phone has been a much bigger problem than their brandishing of firearms. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2019, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biggest-worry-for-2020/829346/60 "2019-02-14T01:41:07Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > My bar is based on how much initiation of state violence is permissible. On this metric, your bar is much much lower based on your preferred policies. Really? You appear to be ignoring or being unaware of the Iraq invasion, the support for governments such as those of Honduras and Costa Rica, the twisting of protests against the police violence against citizens into a false claim that the protests are disrespectful toward the military, the refusal to condemn actual violence when carried out by far-right extremists, etc. As noted by\*\* iiandyiiii\*\*, your standards (and claims of violence) are “different.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biggest-worry-for-2020/829346.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biggest-worry-for-2020/829346.md?page=4)