# Bike Riders? Are they a pain in the ass? Or are motorists too damn impatient? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 16, 2013, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bike-riders-are-they-a-pain-in-the-ass-or-are-motorists-too-damn-impatient/668954 "2013-09-16T07:21:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2013, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bike-riders-are-they-a-pain-in-the-ass-or-are-motorists-too-damn-impatient/668954/41 "2013-09-18T07:20:56Z")
Bike riders are a problem because they are not as visible as cars, but that’s not their fault - it’s just an unfortunate fact of geometry. ---
**Author:** ![epbrown01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ba0ec/32.png) [@epbrown01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/epbrown01)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2013, 9:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bike-riders-are-they-a-pain-in-the-ass-or-are-motorists-too-damn-impatient/668954/42 "2013-09-18T09:51:36Z")
> [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > These are questions that were not answered thus far. > > My answers would be no, no and no. > > 1. I consider registration little more than a hidden tax. > 2. For either registration or licensing the effective purpose as advocated by the ranting drivers is not to raise funds but to discourage cycling. > 3. Registration & licensing would doubtless cost more to implement than it would ever raise 1. There’s nothing hidden about it. It’s the government taking money from you - a tax. 2. This is playing the victim - registration and licensing are part of the cost of using the roadways; why should cyclists be exempt? 3. How would it be hard to implement? The infrastructure to registering and licensing has long been in place, you’re just putting more people in line. As for some of your other points - I can see cyclists paying less in fees. My motorcycles cost less than my car for plates, stickers, city stickers, etc. I suspect that no amount is small enough to be considered fair, that’s just human nature. But imo, going this route should work both ways - if cyclists are paying to use the roadways they should be fully accomodated on them with bike lanes and parking areas as abundant as for other vehicles. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2013, 10:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bike-riders-are-they-a-pain-in-the-ass-or-are-motorists-too-damn-impatient/668954/43 "2013-09-18T10:11:59Z")
Cyclists need to remember that they are road users too. The Highway Code applies to them too. That means not blowing through red lights. That means pulling over to let faster traffic pass when necessary. That means clearly signalling your intentions to other road users. That means giving priority to pedestrians on zebra crossings. Etc. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2013, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bike-riders-are-they-a-pain-in-the-ass-or-are-motorists-too-damn-impatient/668954/44 "2013-09-18T11:09:15Z")
> [@epbrown01](#): > > 1. There’s nothing hidden about it. It’s the government taking money from you - a tax. OK, granted. > [@](#): > > 1. This is playing the victim - registration and licensing are part of the cost of using the roadways; why should cyclists be exempt? Because bicycles do not damage the infrastructure. MUTs or bike trails requires far, far less maintenance than regular roads, most cyclists probably already pay for the roads with general taxes, many cyclists (not me) already pay such fees as they have a car, furthermore there are many, many roads that cyclists are not allowed to use, etc. As to playing the victim - no. 99% of the time that registration or bike licensing comes up it is proposes by angry bike-haters whose primary aim is to reduce the number of bikes on the road and thus in their way. Keep in mind this is the same crowd who thinks their gas tax and registration fees pay for all the local roads costs > [@](#): > > 1. How would it be hard to implement? The infrastructure to registering and licensing has long been in place, you’re just putting more people in line. For licensing the infrastructure is certainly not in place. Driver’s licensing centers are set up to handle cars and in PA they are already pretty overwhelmed near urban centers (3 month waits are typical in the Philadelphia region). As for registration - while the infrastructure for that can be added to the car one it is pretty much a waste. Car registration in PA costs $35 and while I have no idea how much it costs to process I doubt it is less than $5. If you charge more than that it is grossly out of proportion and unfair given how little bicycles cost the road infrastructure. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2013, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bike-riders-are-they-a-pain-in-the-ass-or-are-motorists-too-damn-impatient/668954/45 "2013-09-18T11:15:20Z")
> [@Kyomara](#): > > I agree with this to a point, but I believe we really are different from cars, and at the very least the penalties ought to reflect that. I can only speak to biking here in New York City, but the one time I was ticketed for running a red light on my bicycle, I was shocked to discover that they charged me the same penalty as a car. Especially in light of the fact that it was 4am and there weren’t even any cars on the road, let alone pedestrians, the penalty really should have been more lenient. > > We generally just don’t pose the same threat to pedestrians that cars do. I’m fine with being penalized, but It shouldn’t be the same as for a car. Some consistency would be nice, too. Running a light on a bike is treated like jay-walking here, which means that cops only ticket you when they’re bored or trying to make a quota. The biggest problem I have with police crackdowns on bicycling is that 95% of them turn into massive ticket-fests where cyclists are punished for idiotic and often imaginary infractions by car-centric policemen. Invariably the ticket writing is not done in areas where cyclist misbehavior can cause potential harm to pedestrians or cause traffic issues but in areas where it is easier to nab cyclists. ---
**Author:** ![Boo\_Boo\_Foo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@Boo\_Boo\_Foo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boo_Boo_Foo)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2013, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bike-riders-are-they-a-pain-in-the-ass-or-are-motorists-too-damn-impatient/668954/46 "2013-09-18T11:58:38Z")
> [@epbrown01](#): > > 1. There’s nothing hidden about it. It’s the government taking money from you - a tax. > 2. This is playing the victim - registration and licensing are part of the cost of using the roadways; why should cyclists be exempt? > 3. How would it be hard to implement? The infrastructure to registering and licensing has long been in place, you’re just putting more people in line. > > As for some of your other points - I can see cyclists paying less in fees. My motorcycles cost less than my car for plates, stickers, city stickers, etc. I suspect that no amount is small enough to be considered fair, that’s just human nature. But imo, going this route should work both ways - if cyclists are paying to use the roadways they should be fully accomodated on them with bike lanes and parking areas as abundant as for other vehicles. Question: If you own a car, should you be exempt from paying registration on your bicycle, given that when you’re using the bike, clearly you’re not using your car? How many cars does a person have to own BEFORE they should be exempt from paying registration on bike? Two cars? Six cars? Nine Cars? But here’s the kicker… if you believe cyclists should have to pay registration on their bikes, and if they’re holding you up on the way to work, even if they’ve got licence plates and all the other bullshit you reckon they should be paying, are you going to give them ANY more respect than you’re giving them now? I doubt it. And if a bike rider has to pay registration before they’re allowed to ride a bike on the road, once they’re paying registration you do realise they’re gonna take the whole lane, every single day, because after all… by your definition they’re now paying for the right to be treated on equal terms. What’s that you say? They should have to pay registration but STILL not hold you up? Well that desn’t make sense. If they’re not allowed to use the whole road then what are you forcing them to pay registration for? ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2013, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bike-riders-are-they-a-pain-in-the-ass-or-are-motorists-too-damn-impatient/668954/47 "2013-09-18T12:33:07Z")
> [@zoid](#): > > In my experience as a driver most bicyclists are at least courteous and try not to get in the way. > At least 1 in 10 ignore traffic rules almost completely, and I can’t remember the last time I saw a bike stop at a stop sign even though there was a car that had the right of way through the intersection. They seem to think they get a pass on all right of way laws. > Don’t even get me started on those messenger bike assholes who have no issue what so ever with knocking down pedestrians in a crowded downtown area. It’s a minority who act like this but they create such havoc I hate them almost as much as the coach bus drivers and taxis who think red lights are optional. This, except that in Chicago, it’s not a minority of bike riders not following traffic laws, it’s a majority. And I say that not out of carism, but counting. I live on a street with a bike lane, and it’s become something of a hobby of mine to count the bikes that blow through lights, ignore stop signs and turn left from the right lane (where it’s not marked to do so) or vice versa. It’s scary. Our much loathed mayor has brought in revamped [bike lanes](http://chi.streetsblog.org/2013/03/20/how-to-create-protected-bike-lanes-that-confident-cyclists-will-enjoy-riding/) in some spots, where the bikes go to the right of a row of parked cars, and at least one intersection has a [traffic signal specifically for the bikes](http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-12-14/news/ct-met-dearborn-bike-lanes1214-20121214_1_bike-lanes-traffic-signals-bicyclists-and-pedestrians). I like those. They’re not universally liked, but I like them. I think they serve as some level of physical protection, they work to validate bike riders as legitimate users of the road, and they seem to inspire the bike riders to follow more of the Rules of the Road than they otherwise do. At least, my count of suicidal bike moves is much lower on those streets. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2013, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bike-riders-are-they-a-pain-in-the-ass-or-are-motorists-too-damn-impatient/668954/48 "2013-09-18T13:15:16Z")
I live in Washington, DC, and rely upon Capital Bikeshare for most of my commuting: [http://www.capitalbikeshare.com/](http://www.capitalbikeshare.com/) Personally, I can’t _stand_ automobile drivers in the city. Unless you’re transporting children or have some physical impairment, you’ve no business driving inside an urban core. Between MetroRail, buses, and bikeshare, there are few places you might be working in DC that aren’t well-served by public transit. People driving unnecessarily in the city generate tremendous amounts of pollution, get into accidents, and _slow down everybody else_. I can’t emphasize that last point enough. When I’m biking at rush hour, I keep up with the flow of traffic effortlessly, and I’m not Lance Armstrong by any stretch of the imagination. I’m a veering-on-pudgy 30-year-old in a suit, on a Capital Bikeshare three-speed that’s built to take abuse, not win races. And I get held up by people driving completely unneccessary cars, slowing down people who actually _need_ to drive (kids, impairments, etc), the public busses, and bikers. _Everyone_ is worse off. One might object that plenty of folks commute into DC from out of town - but that’s precisely why outlying Metro stations have generous parking lots. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2013, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bike-riders-are-they-a-pain-in-the-ass-or-are-motorists-too-damn-impatient/668954/49 "2013-09-18T15:00:15Z")
> [@Mr.Excellent](#): > > I live in Washington, DC, and rely upon Capital Bikeshare for most of my commuting: [http://www.capitalbikeshare.com/](http://www.capitalbikeshare.com/) > > Personally, I can’t _stand_ automobile drivers in the city. Unless you’re transporting children or have some physical impairment, you’ve no business driving inside an urban core. Between MetroRail, buses, and bikeshare, there are few places you might be working in DC that aren’t well-served by public transit. People driving unnecessarily in the city generate tremendous amounts of pollution, get into accidents, and _slow down everybody else_. > > I can’t emphasize that last point enough. When I’m biking at rush hour, I keep up with the flow of traffic effortlessly, and I’m not Lance Armstrong by any stretch of the imagination. I’m a veering-on-pudgy 30-year-old in a suit, on a Capital Bikeshare three-speed that’s built to take abuse, not win races. And I get held up by people driving completely unneccessary cars, slowing down people who actually _need_ to drive (kids, impairments, etc), the public busses, and bikers. _Everyone_ is worse off. > > One might object that plenty of folks commute into DC from out of town - but that’s precisely why outlying Metro stations have generous parking lots. Yes because everybody likes to hunt down a bike and get sweaty on the way to and from work in the summer, freeze their ass in the winter, get soaked in the rain or have their clothes get caught in a chain. All this after driving to a train station and then taking a bus. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2013, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bike-riders-are-they-a-pain-in-the-ass-or-are-motorists-too-damn-impatient/668954/50 "2013-09-18T15:11:56Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Yes because everybody likes to hunt down a bike and get sweaty on the way to and from work in the summer, freeze their ass in the winter, get soaked in the rain or have their clothes get caught in a chain. All this after driving to a train station and then taking a bus. Bikeshare bikes have the chain protected by fenders. As to rain/weather/etc - well, on those days you take a bus. Or wear a raincoat. The problem is that Americans (outside of large cities) just don’t think in terms of relying upon public transit. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2013, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bike-riders-are-they-a-pain-in-the-ass-or-are-motorists-too-damn-impatient/668954/51 "2013-09-18T15:32:24Z")
> [@Mr.Excellent](#): > > Bikeshare bikes have the chain protected by fenders. As to rain/weather/etc - well, on those days you take a bus. Or wear a raincoat. The problem is that Americans (outside of large cities) just don’t think in terms of relying upon public transit. Well damn, so did my bike as a kid. if only I knew it was impossible for me to snag my clothes. And yes, Americans outside of large cities don’t think in terms of public transit because it’s a major inconvenience unless one happens to live near a bus stop on a route that goes directly to one’s place of employment. Very few cities are set up with a level of transit that can compete with a car. As to rain/weather/etc that would be about every day where I live. It’s rare that a forecast exists that isn’t hot/cold/raining throughout the day. I would add that I rarely drive straight home from work. I take care of whatever chores I can get done such as grocery shopping or a stop to a hardware store. Every one of those events would require advanced planning without a car. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2013, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bike-riders-are-they-a-pain-in-the-ass-or-are-motorists-too-damn-impatient/668954/52 "2013-09-18T16:58:27Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I would add that I rarely drive straight home from work. I take care of whatever chores I can get done such as grocery shopping or a stop to a hardware store. Every one of those events would require advanced planning without a car. I bike commuted in Boston for about 2 years. I probably drove to work once a week to handle those chores. It’s pretty easy to plan things that way if it’s important to you. While it’s a change, it’s not as big a change as you make it out to be. It’s not for everyone, but it’s very doable for people who live and work in urban areas. Typically, when biking to work it would take less time than driving. It actually left me with more time to accomplish things. ---
**Author:** ![epbrown01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ba0ec/32.png) [@epbrown01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/epbrown01)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2013, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bike-riders-are-they-a-pain-in-the-ass-or-are-motorists-too-damn-impatient/668954/53 "2013-09-18T18:56:40Z")
> [@Boo\_Boo\_Foo](#): > > Question: If you own a car, should you be exempt from paying registration on your bicycle, given that when you’re using the bike, clearly you’re not using your car? How many cars does a person have to own BEFORE they should be exempt from paying registration on bike? Two cars? Six cars? Nine Cars? What makes cyclists special? I don’t hear you making the argument that my motorcycles should be exempt because when I’m riding one of them I’m not in the car. If you don’t want to pay multiple use-taxes, pick one vehicle and live with it. It’s a use tax, and you’re using the roads. How you feel about your impact/fee ratio is between you and your alderman; the government cannot administer via the snowflake method. You get lumped in, then you take your lumps like everyone else. > [@](#): > > if you believe cyclists should have to pay registration on their bikes, and if they’re holding you up on the way to work, even if they’ve got licence plates and all the other bullshit you reckon they should be paying, are you going to give them ANY more respect than you’re giving them now? I doubt it. So you treat cars with respect and consideration because they’re currently paying for the roads while you’re getting a free pass? Yeah, I thought so. I don’t know what sort of dystopia you want to live in where this is even possible, but the government isn’t taking a fee to make everyone nicer to you or anyone else. Your problems with drivers is with people. It’s long been known that people suck, and for about a hundred years we’ve known they suck more when they’re in cars. Cyclists have to deal with it like everyone else. > [@](#): > > And if a bike rider has to pay registration before they’re allowed to ride a bike on the road, once they’re paying registration you do realise they’re gonna take the whole lane, every single day, because after all… by your definition they’re now paying for the right to be treated on equal terms. > > What’s that you say? They should have to pay registration but STILL not hold you up? Well that desn’t make sense. If they’re not allowed to use the whole road then what are you forcing them to pay registration for? Again, are cars paying for carte blanc on the roads with _their_ fees? Nope, they’ve got to observe laws - lane usage restrictions, speed limits and speed minimums, truck restrictions, etc. So why should handing money over like everyone else suddenly make it a free-for-all for cyclists, when I have to stay out of the bike lane, only use the turning lane when I’m turning, and so on? ---
**Author:** ![austerity](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@austerity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/austerity)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2013, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bike-riders-are-they-a-pain-in-the-ass-or-are-motorists-too-damn-impatient/668954/54 "2013-09-18T19:34:58Z")
In Honolulu, Hawaii, a bicycle registration is mandatory. You pay $15 and you put a yellow sticker on your seat tube, or else cops can confiscate your bicycle. I grew up in Honolulu and whenever I go back there and ride I have absolutely no regret taking up an entire lane when riding my bike. I paid my fair share with registration for the road so I gladly exercise my right by riding right down the middle of the street whether or not I am holding up traffic (if there is no shoulder or bike lane). But I live now in Los Angeles and there is absolutely no way would I feel comfortable taking up an entire lane of traffic because I don’t feel I have paid my fair share since there is no registration. So I will ride as far right as possible in the lane and let cars pass me. But you can be sure if LA had mandatory bike registration, I would be holding up traffic with glee since I had paid my fair share. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2013, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bike-riders-are-they-a-pain-in-the-ass-or-are-motorists-too-damn-impatient/668954/55 "2013-09-18T20:14:37Z")
I’ve already paid my fair share, even without having a car to register. Registration fees, license fees, gas taxes, tolls, all of that adds up a fraction of the actual cost of our roads. The rest of that gap is paid for from the general fund which my taxes contribute. Even then much of that fund goes to roads I cannot use as a cyclist. I do not begrudge it, however, because many vehicles that are not mine but are critical to our infrastructure do need them: Police cars, ambulances, delivery vehicles, mail trucks, garbage trucks, etc., etc. But don’t try to imply that because I am not paying $15 for a silly yellow sticker that I am not paying my ‘fair share’. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2013, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bike-riders-are-they-a-pain-in-the-ass-or-are-motorists-too-damn-impatient/668954/56 "2013-09-18T22:41:58Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > I bike commuted in Boston for about 2 years. I probably drove to work once a week to handle those chores. It’s pretty easy to plan things that way if it’s important to you. While it’s a change, it’s not as big a change as you make it out to be. It’s not for everyone, but it’s very doable for people who live and work in urban areas. > > Typically, when biking to work it would take less time than driving. It actually left me with more time to accomplish things. well of course it doable in some cities but I specifically addressed those outside the city where it sucks rather hugely. And I chose the word doable because it’s still a negative in my book to fight the weather on a bike. ---
**Author:** ![austerity](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@austerity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/austerity)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2013, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bike-riders-are-they-a-pain-in-the-ass-or-are-motorists-too-damn-impatient/668954/57 "2013-09-19T00:20:13Z")
> [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > I’ve already paid my fair share, even without having a car to register. Registration fees, license fees, gas taxes, tolls, all of that adds up a fraction of the actual cost of our roads. The rest of that gap is paid for from the general fund which my taxes contribute. Even then much of that fund goes to roads I cannot use as a cyclist. > > I do not begrudge it, however, because many vehicles that are not mine but are critical to our infrastructure do need them: Police cars, ambulances, delivery vehicles, mail trucks, garbage trucks, etc., etc. > > But don’t try to imply that because I am not paying $15 for a silly yellow sticker that I am not paying my ‘fair share’. All that you say is true but the cars driving behind you don’t know that. If all you have to pay is $15 for a yellow sticker on your bike to tell the drivers behind you that you paid your fair share to use the road and thus gain their respect, then I think that is a fair price to pay. I know that from my experience cycling in Honolulu (with a visible mandatory registration sticker) vs Los Angeles (no mandatory registration), car drivers in Honolulu give me much more respect and patience vs car drivers in Los Angeles where honking and yelling is a daily occurrence. If more cities followed Honolulu’s mandatory bicycle registration laws, then I think it would solve this bicycle vs car feud since now bicycles are now paying their fair share and car drivers can’t whine anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2013, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bike-riders-are-they-a-pain-in-the-ass-or-are-motorists-too-damn-impatient/668954/58 "2013-09-19T02:58:26Z")
> [@austerity](#): > > All that you say is true but the cars driving behind you don’t know that. > > If all you have to pay is $15 for a yellow sticker on your bike to tell the drivers behind you that you paid your fair share to use the road and thus gain their respect, then I think that is a fair price to pay. Unfortunately, a simple registration fee is not going to do it. The only reason drivers bring it up is as an excuse to be disdainful of cyclists. They do not want cyclists to pay a ‘fair share’ in the end what they want is cyclists off the road. If you get a registration fee for bicycles then they will switch over to saying that that cyclists don’t pay gas taxes, or don’t have to buy insurance, or don’t have to take a cycling test, etc., etc. As an example I’ll bring up the guy who is in charge of the taxi cab driver’s ‘Union’ who recently demanded that cyclists be forced to register & license because one of his cabbies drove onto a sidewalk, resulting in a tourist’s leg being severed. The guy in the same statement said bikes do not belong on the roads. > [@](#): > > I know that from my experience cycling in Honolulu (with a visible mandatory registration sticker) vs Los Angeles (no mandatory registration), car drivers in Honolulu give me much more respect and patience vs car drivers in Los Angeles where honking and yelling is a daily occurrence. That could be from other factors besides the registration. It could simply be that some cities are better able to deal with cyclists than others. L.A. drivers from what I gather can barely deal with other cars being on the road, let alone a bicycle. > [@](#): > > If more cities followed Honolulu’s mandatory bicycle registration laws, then I think it would solve this bicycle vs car feud since now bicycles are now paying their fair share and car drivers can’t whine anymore. In my experience, any fee proposed is an attempt to restrict and constrain cyclists and reduce their numbers. It is much like the road restrictions done decades ago in the name ‘safety’ - none of the actions implemented made any cyclist safer, many of them made things more dangerous, and all were proposed by drivers who wanted cyclists off the roads. (See John Forrester’s Effective Cycling for the details). ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2013, 8:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bike-riders-are-they-a-pain-in-the-ass-or-are-motorists-too-damn-impatient/668954/59 "2013-09-19T08:36:11Z")
On the subject of road tax and infrastructure, it isn’t always true that money raised by a road tax is used for the infrastructure. The UK is one such country. > **[Road tax | United Kingdom](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_tax#United_Kingdom)** > > In the United Kingdom it is a requirement to pay Vehicle Excise Duty (VED), which is commonly called road tax or vehicle tax, this is paid annually to the government for a vehicle licence. Previously, vehicle licences in the form of paper tax discs were required to be displayed on vehicles, and this licence would remain valid until its expiry date even if the vehicle was transferred to another keeper. The paper tax discs were abolished in October 2014, meaning that the licence is merely an en In ... > [@](#): > > In the United Kingdom owners are required to pay Vehicle Excise Duty, which is paid to the government for a vehicle licence (or tax disc), which must be displayed on most motor vehicles used on public roads.[8] Since 1937 there has been no direct relationship between the tax and government expenditure on public roads. ---
**Author:** ![Boo\_Boo\_Foo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@Boo\_Boo\_Foo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boo_Boo_Foo)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2013, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bike-riders-are-they-a-pain-in-the-ass-or-are-motorists-too-damn-impatient/668954/60 "2013-09-20T05:47:31Z")
> [@epbrown01](#): > > It’s a use tax, and you’re using the roads. How you feel about your impact/fee ratio is between you and your alderman; the government cannot administer via the snowflake method. You get lumped in, then you take your lumps like everyone else. That’s where you’re wrong. A tollway charges for usage. All other roads known as “shared access” are free, the world over. Arguing that “vehicle costs” such as registration is actually a "usage cost’ indicates you think you’re a victim in some manner, that those vermin bike riders are getting away with something that you can’t get away with. It’s a disingenuous position, and it confirms in my view that even if a bike rider had a licence plate you’d still find a reason to have disdain for them. Indeed, there isn’t a country on the planet where even 5% of road infrastructure is funded by registration and licensing costs. Overwhelmingly, road infrastructure is paid for out of consolidated revenue, otherwise known as taxation revenue. Unless, of course, it’s specifically designed from the outset, as a tollway. That’s when user pays. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bike-riders-are-they-a-pain-in-the-ass-or-are-motorists-too-damn-impatient/668954.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bike-riders-are-they-a-pain-in-the-ass-or-are-motorists-too-damn-impatient/668954.md?page=4)