# Bill Belichick and the Patriots - Cheaters supreme, but does anyone care? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [January 16, 2011, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-belichick-and-the-patriots-cheaters-supreme-but-does-anyone-care/567846 "2011-01-16T18:41:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![zamboniracer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e9a140/32.png) [@zamboniracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zamboniracer)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-belichick-and-the-patriots-cheaters-supreme-but-does-anyone-care/567846/21 "2011-01-18T15:02:22Z")
I don’t understand those who say “There’s not a specific rule against it”. At least as far as in game conduct is concerned, the catch-all penalty is called “Unsportsmanlike Conduct”. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-belichick-and-the-patriots-cheaters-supreme-but-does-anyone-care/567846/22 "2011-01-18T16:15:07Z")
Well if we want talk cheating, how about Steelers Center Pouncey. [Pay attention to the spot of the ball throughout the video.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Epx1dXu7uiU&feature=player_embedded) ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-belichick-and-the-patriots-cheaters-supreme-but-does-anyone-care/567846/23 "2011-01-18T16:26:13Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > [Shrug] If you’re not cheating, you’re not trying. Huh, you at least admitted that they cheated. Anybody recording this? ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-belichick-and-the-patriots-cheaters-supreme-but-does-anyone-care/567846/24 "2011-01-18T16:37:30Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > Well if we want talk cheating, how about Steelers Center Pouncey. > > [Pay attention to the spot of the ball throughout the video.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Epx1dXu7uiU&feature=player_embedded) Wow, that is messed up. ---
**Author:** ![crypto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b3f665/32.png) [@crypto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crypto)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-belichick-and-the-patriots-cheaters-supreme-but-does-anyone-care/567846/25 "2011-01-18T16:37:46Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > Well if we want talk cheating, how about Steelers Center Pouncey. > > [Pay attention to the spot of the ball throughout the video.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Epx1dXu7uiU&feature=player_embedded) Interesting. The ball seems to have crept up about a half a yard, doesn’t it? Why is that? (back to the video tape!) I am a Steeler fan. I’m sure I will sound like a homer, but I’ll add two things to this. 1. I have seen this from almost every center in every game in the NFL. When the center sets and the line sets, they do it from where the ball is placed. If the center then spins the ball and/or inches it forward, no one on the offense can move. So, I’m not sure this is gaining an advantage. When the ball is centered, Pouncy’s butt is in the same place it was before he got down over the ball, so Ben gets the ball at the same place. 2. From what I can tell, the ball is placed, the Steelers head to the line, there is a timeout when Harbaugh is thinking of challenging the first down, the camera cuts away to see Harbaugh, comes back showing the ref running away to get set. Dierdorf says something like “the refs have respotted the ball”. So perhaps the refs hosed up the spot on the resetting? How in the world did you see this? I haven’t heard of anyone complaining about it, but I imagine if Ravens fans got this, I’m sure it’s noisy in Baltimore. ---
**Author:** ![crypto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b3f665/32.png) [@crypto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crypto)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-belichick-and-the-patriots-cheaters-supreme-but-does-anyone-care/567846/26 "2011-01-18T16:42:21Z")
I’ve watched this a few more times. I’m not sure what exactly happened, but the ball most certainly moved 1/2 yard forward. Regardless of what Pouncy does, the actual spot of the ball moves when the refs go talk to Harbaugh. Since the Refs are in there and covering the ball so the Steelers can’t quick snap, I am going to have to stick this one on the refs. I don’t see how Pouncy could have changed the spot of the ball himself. Good catch on the video, though! ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-belichick-and-the-patriots-cheaters-supreme-but-does-anyone-care/567846/27 "2011-01-18T16:53:14Z")
> [@Stink Fish Pot](#): > > I’ve watched this a few more times. > > I’m not sure what exactly happened, but the ball most certainly moved 1/2 yard forward. Regardless of what Pouncy does, the actual spot of the ball moves when the refs go talk to Harbaugh. Since the Refs are in there and covering the ball so the Steelers can’t quick snap, I am going to have to stick this one on the refs. I don’t see how Pouncy could have changed the spot of the ball himself. > > Good catch on the video, though! It was discussed at [http://profootballtalk.com](http://profootballtalk.com) ---
**Author:** ![Bootis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e8c25b/32.png) [@Bootis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bootis)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-belichick-and-the-patriots-cheaters-supreme-but-does-anyone-care/567846/28 "2011-01-18T17:15:46Z")
The stupid thing about spy gate is that it was perfectly legal to film from the stands, which would easily give them the exact same information they were getting by filming from the sidelines. The patriots were punished for ignoring the memo the league put out saying, don’t do it from the sidelines anymore. They made no attempt to be secretive about it, they just basically said, well that’s stupid, it was fine to do this before, its fine to do it from anywhere else in the stadium, other teams have done it for ages, and obviously no one will care. He didn’t anticipate Mangini smartly being able to use it as a play in his little game with Bellichick, and it cost them. Arrogant? Yes. In my mind that’s a perfectly fine reason to hate them, for Belichick’s arrogance. But really the vast majority of people who try to make it more than that are people who really, really _want_ it to be more than that. ---
**Author:** ![WreckingCrew](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wreckingcrew/32/4080_2.png) [@WreckingCrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WreckingCrew)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-belichick-and-the-patriots-cheaters-supreme-but-does-anyone-care/567846/29 "2011-01-18T17:54:55Z")
> [@Stink Fish Pot](#): > > I can’t imagine Lombardi doing this, or Noll. Or just about any coach. I would think it would be a matter of pride that you were a better, smarter, sharper football mind than the rest of your peers. Yes, thank God that Chuck Noll has always been a man of honor, and the Steelers paragons of virtue. "In a freewheeling radio interview with Sports Illustrated’s Dan Patrick last week, Bradshaw said he used steroids for healing purposes as a member of the vaunted Steeler teams of the 1970s, and that a doctor administered the injections. “We did steroids to get away the aches and the speed of healing,” Bradshaw said. “My use of steroids from a doctor was to speed up injury, and thought nothing of it… It was to speed up the healing process, that was it. It wasn’t to get bigger and stronger and faster.” [http://grg51.typepad.com/steroid\_nation/2008/06/so-terry-bradsh.html](http://grg51.typepad.com/steroid_nation/2008/06/so-terry-bradsh.html) ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-belichick-and-the-patriots-cheaters-supreme-but-does-anyone-care/567846/30 "2011-01-18T18:04:10Z")
> [@Bootis](#): > > The stupid thing about spy gate is that it was perfectly legal to film from the stands, which would easily give them the exact same information they were getting by filming from the sidelines. The patriots were punished for ignoring the memo the league put out saying, don’t do it from the sidelines anymore. Bingo – which is why I laugh at those who point to “Spygate” as some sort of proof that they did something horrific. ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-belichick-and-the-patriots-cheaters-supreme-but-does-anyone-care/567846/31 "2011-01-18T18:35:46Z")
> [@WreckingCrew](#): > > Yes, thank God that Chuck Noll has always been a man of honor, and the Steelers paragons of virtue. > > "In a freewheeling radio interview with Sports Illustrated’s Dan Patrick last week, Bradshaw said he used steroids for healing purposes as a member of the vaunted Steeler teams of the 1970s, and that a doctor administered the injections. > > “We did steroids to get away the aches and the speed of healing,” Bradshaw said. “My use of steroids from a doctor was to speed up injury, and thought nothing of it… It was to speed up the healing process, that was it. It wasn’t to get bigger and stronger and faster.” > > [http://grg51.typepad.com/steroid\_nation/2008/06/so-terry-bradsh.html](http://grg51.typepad.com/steroid_nation/2008/06/so-terry-bradsh.html) And that has what to do with Chuck Noll? Those quotes are from Terry Bradshaw, who by the way hated Noll, and he doesn’t even mention the head coach. By the way, I hate the Steelers. ---
**Author:** ![WreckingCrew](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wreckingcrew/32/4080_2.png) [@WreckingCrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WreckingCrew)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-belichick-and-the-patriots-cheaters-supreme-but-does-anyone-care/567846/32 "2011-01-18T18:52:38Z")
> [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](#): > > And that has what to do with Chuck Noll? Those quotes are from Terry Bradshaw, who by the way hated Noll, and he doesn’t even mention the head coach. By the way, I hate the Steelers. Just a random quote I grabbed showing one of the many reports of the Super Bowl winning Steelers of the 1970s using steroids on a team wide basis. I am aware that steroids were not banned by the NFL at the time, however, it does raise the point that getting an edge in the NFL is nothing new, nor just something done in New England. Sometimes, it even happens in Pittsburgh!! This piece is an amazing look at an actual team sanctioned steroid policy with the 1963 Chargers. > **[OTL: Football's first steroids team? The '63 Chargers](https://www.espn.com/espn/otl/news/story?id=3866837)** > > The AFL champion 1963 San Diego Chargers were going to be good, anyway. They had Tobin Rote, Lance Alworth, Ron Mix and Hall of Fame coach Sid Gillman. But they had something else going for them, too: steroids. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-belichick-and-the-patriots-cheaters-supreme-but-does-anyone-care/567846.md?page=1)