# Bill Cosby attacks some in black community again **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 2, 2004, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-cosby-attacks-some-in-black-community-again/253216 "2004-07-02T14:44:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![holmes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e95f7d/32.png) [@holmes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/holmes)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2004, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-cosby-attacks-some-in-black-community-again/253216/41 "2004-07-02T17:23:23Z")
> [@Evil One](#): > > Holmes, why do you think the people you are talking about are incapable of taking responsibility for thier own actions and choices? I never said they were. But responsiblity is a path between left or right and sometimes through no fault of their own, some people find one path blocked and for whatever reason they just can’t see a way over or around it and get trapped, sometimes for generations. You can’t fix that by calling them trash. I know people like this and all they needed is one really good break and they soar, but it’s not easy to do and requires sacrifice on ALL parts. It seems I guess **wrong** to abandon these people; especially when you have the money and ability to directly affect their lives when all they really need is guidance, not a handout, not a blank check, but a plan; something as simple as A to B for TODAY. Today you learn a skill, today your kid goes to a safe school, today you own your home. I’ve seen in happen with the screwups in my own family…screaming at them never worked. Tough love, sure but always an incentive they could see and feel and work towards. ---
**Author:** ![holmes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e95f7d/32.png) [@holmes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/holmes)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2004, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-cosby-attacks-some-in-black-community-again/253216/42 "2004-07-02T17:32:47Z")
> [@jarbabyj](#): > > Bill Cosby knew damn well this would be picked up by news outlets, and just like sometimes a friend needs an intervention, sometimes we all need to be shook up and looked in the eye and told “YOU’RE SCREWING IT UP” > > Yes, he was speaking to a room of people who maybe didn’t need his message, but what if those people tell others? Or what if someone reads his message in the paper? Who, the functional illiterates that Cosby’s railing against? If this message is for them, then I think they might miss it…with all that wife-beating, nigga shouting, 40 drinking and stealing they’re doing. Perhaps they’ll grab a copy of USA Today, during their looting. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_One](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/45deac/32.png) [@Evil\_One](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_One)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2004, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-cosby-attacks-some-in-black-community-again/253216/43 "2004-07-02T17:36:28Z")
Holmes, how do you make those who behave the way Cosby is complaining about turn away from that behavior? And also, where do you think that the wrong path begins? At what age? What sort of choices are made at the beginning to set someone on the wrong path? Are the young modeling the behavior of their elders? If so, isn’t it the responsibility of the elders to model responsible behavior? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_One](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/45deac/32.png) [@Evil\_One](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_One)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2004, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-cosby-attacks-some-in-black-community-again/253216/44 "2004-07-02T17:38:44Z")
> [@holmes](#): > > Who, the functional illiterates that Cosby’s railing against? If this message is for them, then I think they might miss it…with all that wife-beating, nigga shouting, 40 drinking and stealing they’re doing. Perhaps they’ll grab a copy of USA Today, during their looting. At the risk of seeming harsh, Holmes, this is actually part of the problem. I doubt that that many of the people that you are referencing have accessed [CNN.com](http://CNN.com) or picked up a newspaper lately. But the people who have are paying for thier behavior in the long run. ---
**Author:** ![Renob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8c91f0/32.png) [@Renob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Renob)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2004, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-cosby-attacks-some-in-black-community-again/253216/45 "2004-07-02T18:13:02Z")
> [@you with the face](#): > > I think I’m getting the same sensation that **holmes** is getting. Bill Cosby, by giving his speech in the arena that he is given it in, is basically preaching to the choir. Actually, I don’t think he’s preaching to the choir. The NAACP, the Rainbow/Push coalition, and other activist groups, while made up of upper-class people who have their shit together, have a long history of excusing the behavior that Cosby is attacking. These groups blame the White Man for the problems in the black community and fail to see the destructive choices that are being made by people in the ghetto. Cosby is essentially telling them, “quit making excuses for these people. The White Man isn’t hurting them; they are hurting themselves. And if we continue to excuse their anti-social behavior we’re not going to see any improvement in their situation.” ---
**Author:** ![holmes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e95f7d/32.png) [@holmes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/holmes)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2004, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-cosby-attacks-some-in-black-community-again/253216/46 "2004-07-02T18:21:16Z")
> [@Evil One](#): > > Holmes, how do you make those who behave the way Cosby is complaining about turn away from that behavior? > > And also, where do you think that the wrong path begins? At what age? What sort of choices are made at the beginning to set someone on the wrong path? > > Are the young modeling the behavior of their elders? If so, isn’t it the responsibility of the elders to model responsible behavior? I’m not trying to duck you on this, but to answer this question we require I break down the entire African-American Experience in way that makes sense and even I don’t have enough moxie for that. To answer your question, I suggest you a little introspection. Look the the members of your family that didn’t do as well; why were they ALL screw ups? Consider the mistakes and missteps you yourself did in your life and think about what your life would be if you turned left instead of right. You may be surprised at how lucky you really are, despite your responsible nature. ---
**Author:** ![holmes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e95f7d/32.png) [@holmes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/holmes)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2004, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-cosby-attacks-some-in-black-community-again/253216/47 "2004-07-02T18:35:56Z")
> [@jarbabyj](#): > > Which is exactly what Cosby is doing, by supporting non gangsta rap artists and producing things like the Cosby Show and A Different World which tried to promote a different and more intellectual and culturally diverse lifestyle of blacks. > > You can give a million dollars to schools, get brand new books, and fantastical teachers but guess what, in the words of Calvin: > > **YOU CAN PRESENT THE MATERIAL BUT YOU CAN’T MAKE ME CARE.** > > The most well funded school in the world is only going to work if the students use it and the parents are involved in it… Do you really believe these people want their children to grow up like this? Do you really believe if Bill Cosby went into Harlem and opened a Charter Elementary School, those parents wouldn’t be there? Geez, i don’t know where you guys grew up or if you know any REAL poor people, but the ones I knew/know would jump at the opportunity. Despite what a little white cartoon boy with a toy tiger and nice middle class house says. ---
**Author:** ![tiny\_ham](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a183cd/32.png) [@tiny\_ham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tiny_ham)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2004, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-cosby-attacks-some-in-black-community-again/253216/48 "2004-07-02T18:58:51Z")
Hi, I grew up on the southside of Chicago for the first eight years of my life, a stones throw from The Robert Taylor Housing Projects. I know “real” poor people. You asked what donating money to spellman did? It makes spellman a better school so that STUDENTS WHO WORK HARD AND STUDY can get into school, possibly on a full ride scholarship. The point of it is, no matter how much money you throw at a problem, there is a human element that is necessary. You can’t just sit back and say “MAn, my life better improve…and FAST” ---
**Author:** ![tiny\_ham](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a183cd/32.png) [@tiny\_ham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tiny_ham)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2004, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-cosby-attacks-some-in-black-community-again/253216/49 "2004-07-02T19:00:19Z")
And I forgot to add that right now I’m working in an educational and community development agency to improve daycare and preschools for inner city children in chicago and I’ll tell you first hand: a lot of parents DO NOT CARE. It’s like pulling teeth to get them to participate. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2004, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-cosby-attacks-some-in-black-community-again/253216/50 "2004-07-02T19:02:35Z")
> [@jarbabyj](#): > > People of all cultures need to take responsibility for their own actions and behaviors regardless of past history of their neighborhoods, families or the reputation that precedes them. Exactly! And while Cosby was ostensibly speaking only to a specific audience he was really speaking to all of us lest we allow our children to fall into the same traps in which so many black children today find themselves. > [@holmes](#): > > Despite what a little white cartoon boy with a toy tiger and nice middle class house says. Apparently you are unaware of the tradition of using satire to state uncomfortable truths. > [@](#): > > Do you really believe these people want their children to grow up like this? Do you really believe if Bill Cosby went into Harlem and opened a Charter Elementary School, those parents wouldn’t be there? Cosby was not talking to the parents who are doing everything in their power so their children don’t end up in the same hole they are in. He was talking to the parents who, whether because of addiction, tradition, or because they are overwhelmed by their own problems, are NOT pushing their children to do better. There is only so much that a school, no matter how good or well funded, can do for a child and the final choices are made by the child and his parent(s). ---
**Author:** ![holmes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e95f7d/32.png) [@holmes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/holmes)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2004, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-cosby-attacks-some-in-black-community-again/253216/51 "2004-07-02T19:10:02Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > Apparently you are unaware of the tradition of using satire to state uncomfortable truths. THAT was satire? > [@](#): > > Cosby was not talking to the parents who are doing everything in their power so their children don’t end up in the same hole they are in. He was talking to the parents who, whether because of addiction, tradition, or because they are overwhelmed by their own problems, are NOT pushing their children to do better. There is only so much that a school, no matter how good or well funded, can do for a child and the final choices are made by the child and his parent(s). So why didn’t Cosby go into one of their neighbourhoods? Wouldn’t make more sense to confront the people he had a problem with? Instead Cosby tells a bunch of rich guys, what a bunch losers their poor “cousins” are. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_One](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/45deac/32.png) [@Evil\_One](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_One)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2004, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-cosby-attacks-some-in-black-community-again/253216/52 "2004-07-02T19:11:46Z")
> [@holmes](#): > > Consider the mistakes and missteps you yourself did in your life and think about what your life would be if you turned left instead of right. > > You may be surprised at how lucky you really are, despite your responsible nature. I made some. I could have done better in school. But I finished it instead of dropping out. I have never engaged in any type of behavior to get arrested. I’ve never impregnated a teenage girl. I had the chance to do all three and more. But I chose not to. That, my friend, is the crux of the argument. ---
**Author:** ![tiny\_ham](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a183cd/32.png) [@tiny\_ham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tiny_ham)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2004, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-cosby-attacks-some-in-black-community-again/253216/53 "2004-07-02T19:19:31Z")
> [@holmes](#): > > Instead Cosby tells a bunch of rich guys, what a bunch losers their poor “cousins” are. yeah, I hear Fifty Cent is eating out of dumpsters these days. :rolleyes: Rich guys can make horrific life errors as well. ---
**Author:** ![holmes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e95f7d/32.png) [@holmes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/holmes)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2004, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-cosby-attacks-some-in-black-community-again/253216/54 "2004-07-02T19:22:09Z")
> [@Evil One](#): > > I made some. I could have done better in school. But I finished it instead of dropping out. > > I have never engaged in any type of behavior to get arrested. > > I’ve never impregnated a teenage girl. > > I had the chance to do all three and more. But I chose not to. That, my friend, is the crux of the argument. Man I envy you your simple life. Was Honour student. A few friends asked me go on for ride, I was doing something and declined, turns out they were on a drug buy and wanted me for “muscle”. They got caught and the rest is history. I would’ve been screwed…criminal record maybe life of poverty. I’ve had a few close shaves like that…wrong place at the wrong time. Rubber broke, lucky again…would have been a teenage father…Life totally different…maybe one of poverty. There’s a different crux…you can do everything right and still end up against the wall. Act of God, bad luck whatever…we’re all one paycheck away from the street. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2004, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-cosby-attacks-some-in-black-community-again/253216/55 "2004-07-02T19:26:38Z")
Or worse-what about those that DO try to work hard, study, try to better themselves-and are accused of “acting white” by peers. As if to imply that being successful and hard working is something that only WHITES can do, that blacks are by nature NOT. You don’t see that as harmful? I sure as hell do! ---
**Author:** ![tiny\_ham](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a183cd/32.png) [@tiny\_ham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tiny_ham)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2004, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-cosby-attacks-some-in-black-community-again/253216/56 "2004-07-02T19:30:45Z")
Having a child as a teenager doesn’t have to equal poverty unless you choose to sit back and victimize yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_One](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/45deac/32.png) [@Evil\_One](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_One)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2004, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-cosby-attacks-some-in-black-community-again/253216/57 "2004-07-02T19:43:38Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Or worse-what about those that DO try to work hard, study, try to better themselves-and are accused of “acting white” by peers. This is a huge cultural problem that can only be addressed from within. Which is what Cosby is trying to do. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2004, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-cosby-attacks-some-in-black-community-again/253216/58 "2004-07-02T19:52:45Z")
> [@holmes](#): > > A few friends asked me go on for ride, I was doing something and declined, turns out they were on a drug buy and wanted me for “muscle”. They got caught and the rest is history. I would’ve been screwed…criminal record maybe life of poverty. I’ve had a few close shaves like that…wrong place at the wrong time. Well done. > [@holmes](#): > > Rubber broke, lucky again…would have been a teenage father…Life totally different…maybe one of poverty. Boy, that **is** lucky isn’t it? > [@holmes](#): > > There’s a different crux…you can do everything right and still end up against the wall. Act of God, bad luck whatever…we’re all one paycheck away from the street. Suppose you had gone on that drug run, or it had been the wrong time of the month and she had gotten pregnant. Let’s also suppose that a wealthy, black man came in and offered you some money. How should it be spent? ---
**Author:** ![Uncommon\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Uncommon\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncommon_Sense)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2004, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-cosby-attacks-some-in-black-community-again/253216/59 "2004-07-02T19:55:19Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Or worse-what about those that DO try to work hard, study, try to better themselves-and are accused of “acting white” by peers. > > As if to imply that being successful and hard working is something that only WHITES can do, that blacks are by nature NOT. > > You don’t see that as harmful? > > I sure as hell do! See, that’s not the white persons fault. They’re doing it to each other. Cosby is trying to get all these problems out in the open, trying to bring attention to the little problems that can pile up in front of someone and block further progress. He’s not coming out with the fixes, but as we all know, the first step towards solving a problem is to identify the problem. ---
**Author:** ![holmes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e95f7d/32.png) [@holmes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/holmes)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2004, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-cosby-attacks-some-in-black-community-again/253216/60 "2004-07-02T20:15:49Z")
> [@Lord Ashtar](#): > > Suppose you had gone on that drug run, or it had been the wrong time of the month and she had gotten pregnant. Let’s also suppose that a wealthy, black man came in and offered you some money. How should it be spent? The “help” I needed would have been maybe some dough or a part time job to help with the baby and a job when i got out of college or the joint. That’s all I would’ve needed, that extra step to lift me back on the rung I slipped off. This is assuming that my family would have turned me out onto the streets, but remember that was 20-25 years ago, when the extended family still existed. So I most likely would have been alright anyway. Honestly I wouldn’t have needed help, but that’s me…I’m not a good example for this, because I had opportunities. I realized that they were mine to lose, the people that Cosby is railing against, just don’t have access to them. It’s as if they’re born into caste system and the effort to break that caste can be just overwhelming if they aren’t given some basic help. That’s why I keep saying that the world isn’t what Cosby or I grew up in anymore, those options that we had to fall back on are no more. What people seem to be missing, is that for some people there is NO ladder, they are starting from the bottom and don’t even know how to climb…you don’t teach them to climb by telling them they suck at life. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-cosby-attacks-some-in-black-community-again/253216.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-cosby-attacks-some-in-black-community-again/253216.md?page=4)