# Bill Cosby: Guilty! **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [April 26, 2018, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-cosby-guilty/813174 "2018-04-26T17:53:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Spiderman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiderman/32/230_2.png) [@Spiderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiderman)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-cosby-guilty/813174/21 "2018-04-26T20:55:14Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > So maybe Cosby’s lawyers made a strategic error, then. Why does that mean that the system didn’t work? ISTM that justice was done (or as much as can be done in the case of rape), and that Cosby lawyers might have done something dumb doesn’t take away from the good of justice being done. Convicted, that sends a powerful signal to other prominent men that being rich and famous won’t necessarily shield you from jail if you abuse women. If he was found not guilty, that might send the opposite message. Castor was a fucking asshole who never met a TV camera he didn’t like. However, he didn’t think it was winnable & declined to prosecute which opened up her avenue to a civil suit. He said so as recent as the election leading up to these charges being filed. They got a second bite at the apple because of 1) lost paperwork/verbal agreement, & 2) a confidential settlement being leaked. The current prosecutor went back on the word of the previous one; what does that say for any future cases where prosecutor declines to prosecute opening the door for civil remedies? Will the Winestein’s & other celebrities be so quick to testify in a civil suit, knowing it could come back to bite them 10 years later or does this do more to harm the victims in getting some retribution? ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-cosby-guilty/813174/22 "2018-04-26T21:06:46Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > Release pending sentencing is not the same as release pending appeal. Yes, release pending appeal is possible, but much less common. > > I have no idea how long appeals take in Pennsylvania, but in Washington, it could be resolved in 18 to 24 months. Good, I am glad to hear it. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-cosby-guilty/813174/23 "2018-04-26T22:42:06Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > Cosby deserves everything he’s getting, but I can’t help but feel bad, I guess for myself. A cultural icon, everyone’s goofy dad, a great teller of funny stories, voices of cool cartoons…all brought down by this bizarre behavior. I used to like watching reruns of the Cosby show, I loved his “Himself” comedy standup from the 1980’s > … I am certainly not defending the guy, but this doesn’t make me feel like celebrating either. It just sucks all the way around for everyone. Agree with all of this. He was one of the greatest standup comedians of all time, and the work he did during his career is still good stuff, but it has now become harder, if not impossible, to enjoy and appreciate it. **Stranger** : Good point about all the other people who enabled this to go on for so long. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-cosby-guilty/813174/24 "2018-04-26T22:53:06Z")
> [@Jim\_B](#): > > What I can’t figure out is why he thought he had to drug the women. I really don’t think he _had_ to, I think he just _liked_ to. At a distance the consistent pattern makes it very much seem like a sexual kink. Probably he got off on the control aspect of it, but whatever it was I think it is just what he preferred in a sexual encounter. > [@](#): > > Also, the poor man is feeble and blind, and now he will probably die in prison. No one deserves that IMHO. Well, I gotta disagree. I agree it is a sad way to end, but he brought it on himself and not just in one moment of weakness or frustration, but rather after decades of predatory behavior. Have to pay the piper somehow. > [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Well, it sends the message that being rich and famous might shield you for a few decades while you continue to predate with impunity, and you’ll eventually come to justice in your dotage. Well, like you said yourself it is a step in the right direction. The days of the powerful getting away with this stuff for decades may hopefully be receeding into the history books. We’ll see. At any rate even minor victories are still victories. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-cosby-guilty/813174/25 "2018-04-26T23:04:03Z")
> [@Jim\_B](#): > > What I can’t figure out is why he thought he had to drug the women. Bill Cosby was a pretty handsome guy, esp. when he was younger. If I was young Playboy playmate, I wouldn’t mind having sex with him. I’m just saying. > > Also, the poor man is feeble and blind, and now he will probably die in prison. No one deserves that IMHO… Just this week, the Golden State Killer was caught, he’s now in his 70s and a man who murdered two people and abducted, raped and murdered two teens over 18 years ago has been caught, he’s 66 ([https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2018/04/26/the-disappearance-of-two-oklahoma-teens-stumped-police-for-18-years-then-they-learned-about-the-polaroids/?utm\_term=.fe490f8282c3](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2018/04/26/the-disappearance-of-two-oklahoma-teens-stumped-police-for-18-years-then-they-learned-about-the-polaroids/?utm_term=.fe490f8282c3)). Do they not deserve to die in prison? ---
**Author:** ![Kimera757](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kimera757/32/3765_2.png) [@Kimera757](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimera757)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-cosby-guilty/813174/26 "2018-04-26T23:18:08Z")
> [@Jim\_B](#): > > What I can’t figure out is why he thought he had to drug the women. Because most of them won’t say yes (treating female visitors as sex workers is wrong, and won’t work, and would damage his reputation), and he lacks empathy (at least toward his victims), so he didn’t care what they felt. He probably thought the risk was low, since he went decades without getting caught, and the only consequence was spending money. > [@Tamerlane](#): > > I really don’t think he had to, I think he just liked to. I agree. If he wanted consensual sex, he had lots of options. ---
**Author:** ![erysichthon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d07c76/32.png) [@erysichthon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erysichthon)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-cosby-guilty/813174/27 "2018-04-26T23:19:25Z")
I’m looking forward to the SNL “Bill Cosby in prison” sketch, with Eddie Murphy playing Cosby. My favorite part of the NYT story: when the DA asked for bail to be revoked because Cosby could flee on his airplane, the Cos yelled (in the third person), “He doesn’t have a plane, you asshole!” LOL. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-cosby-guilty/813174/28 "2018-04-26T23:34:59Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > …I loved his “Himself” comedy standup from the 1980’s, it was a family VCR staple…everyone could watch it because it wasn’t profane. The child abuse jokes actually don’t hold up all that well. ---
**Author:** ![Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maggie_the_Ocelot)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-cosby-guilty/813174/29 "2018-04-26T23:42:14Z")
One of the women who claims he drugged and raped her was involved with him consensually; if he wanted to have sex with her, he could and did. He drugged and raped them because he specifically got off on the rape. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-cosby-guilty/813174/30 "2018-04-26T23:45:36Z")
> [@erysichthon](#): > > I’m looking forward to the SNL “Bill Cosby in prison” sketch, with Eddie Murphy playing Cosby. I’m not. Bill Cosby is a deranged individual who has done many terrible things and yet is not cognizant enough of his actions to be even tacitly contrite about it. His behavior in and out of court clearly isn’t just calculated to make him appear innocently wronged; he shows no remorse, shame, or regret whatsoever and has even essentially mocked accusers, indicating a complete lack of empathy or awareness. There is nothing funny about Cosby even in satire. His apologists and supplicants, on the other hand, deserve their fill of public shaming and scorn. I’d like to see a sketch of such people thinking they’ve won some kind of prize and then recieving their due rewards. Cosby is a molester and is responsible for his behavior, but he could have never assaulted so many women over such a long period of time and violated the public trust in presenting himself as a righteous, upstanding figure and role model without the help of numerous people to not only cover his misdeeds but actively help him ‘recruit’ victims and make arrangements to isolate them. And it isn’t as those who had been around for more than a couple of years could plausibly deny reasonable suspicions when his behavior was an ‘open secret’ and he’d made several past settlements to cover his behavior. Those people had a moral responsibility to prevent future assaults and see that Cosby received whatever treatment or incarceration to prevent his attacks, and failed as basc human beings to do so. Those who knew and facilitated his assaults are just as guilty as Bill Cosby himself, and yet will likely never even be questioned. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-cosby-guilty/813174/31 "2018-04-26T23:49:29Z")
Looks like justice is served. I have no problem with him dying in prison. I tend to favor the more European style prison system with maximum prison times so people don’t get life, but Cosby is old enough that he should just consider himself lucky that he got to spend all of his young, healthy years out of prison. He hasn’t much time left, but that’s not our fault. ---
**Author:** ![erysichthon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d07c76/32.png) [@erysichthon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erysichthon)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2018, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-cosby-guilty/813174/32 "2018-04-27T00:13:41Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > I’m not. Bill Cosby is a deranged individual who has done many terrible things and yet is not cognizant enough of his actions to be even tacitly contrite about it. His behavior in and out of court clearly isn’t just calculated to make him appear innocently wronged; he shows no remorse, shame, or regret whatsoever and has even essentially mocked accusers, indicating a complete lack of empathy or awareness. There is nothing funny about Cosby even in satire. > > His apologists and supplicants, on the other hand, deserve their fill of public shaming and scorn. I’d like to see a sketch of such people thinking they’ve won some kind of prize and then recieving their due rewards. Cosby is a molester and is responsible for his behavior, but he could have never assaulted so many women over such a long period of time and violated the public trust in presenting himself as a righteous, upstanding figure and role model without the help of numerous people to not only cover his misdeeds but actively help him ‘recruit’ victims and make arrangements to isolate them. > > And it isn’t as those who had been around for more than a couple of years could plausibly deny reasonable suspicions when his behavior was an ‘open secret’ and he’d made several past settlements to cover his behavior. Those people had a moral responsibility to prevent future assaults and see that Cosby received whatever treatment or incarceration to prevent his attacks, and failed as basc human beings to do so. Those who knew and facilitated his assaults are just as guilty as Bill Cosby himself, and yet will likely never even be questioned. > > Stranger Yeah, when I posted that, I was pretty sure I’d get a lecture. I’d still watch an SNL sketch and laugh. Justice has been served and I’m in a good mood. Eddie Murphy would probably refuse to do it, though. ---
**Author:** ![Patx2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/73ab20/32.png) [@Patx2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patx2)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2018, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-cosby-guilty/813174/33 "2018-04-27T00:26:04Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > I take great pleasure in this verdict. +1 ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2018, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-cosby-guilty/813174/34 "2018-04-27T00:30:22Z")
I have mixed feelings about this case. On the one hand, so much time has passed that I don’t think that it can be proven beyond a reasonable doubt that any individual one of the acts occurred (which is, of course, why when something happens, the accusations, and the response by the justice system, should happen as soon as possible). And in fact, I think it quite likely that some of the accusations are false. On the other hand, though, there were so many accusations that, statistically, I do think that it’s beyond a reasonable doubt that at least some of them did happen. I’m not really sure how a jury ought to decide in a case like that. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2018, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-cosby-guilty/813174/35 "2018-04-27T00:41:02Z")
> [@Jim\_B](#): > > What I can’t figure out is why he thought he had to drug the women. Bill Cosby was a pretty handsome guy, esp. when he was younger. If I was young Playboy playmate, I wouldn’t mind having sex with him. I’m just saying. So in other words, if a woman says no to a handsome guy, there must be something wrong with her? :dubious: > [@](#): > > Also, the poor man is feeble and blind, and now he will probably die in prison. No one deserves that IMHO. Yes, yes he does. Many people do. Just because he’s “feeble and blind” doesn’t mean he’s not a scumbag rapist. What if that was your mother he raped? Or your girlfriend? How would you feel? There are plenty of old people who are nothing but pieces of filth. Fuck him and let him rot. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2018, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-cosby-guilty/813174/36 "2018-04-27T00:56:05Z")
He could have really been all that he pretended to be, and that’s what’s saddening. But he just could not resist abusing others behind the façade. He has to face the consequences. (And yeah, just you and I try and call the DA an asshole in court when he makes a motion against us. Even now…) As for the enablers… what a mess. Of course there are those who were themselves fooled (or too willing to let themselves be fooled because the alternative was too painful), those who were dependent on him and those who were opportunistic. One of the things we sort of knew all along but now are out raw and exposed is that in business and showbiz and politics there was just this “consensus” around the notion of “well, that’s the way this world is, what ya gonna do?” where someone who tried to do the stand-up thing would be himself shown the door and discredited before he could do any good. There has been change but I’m worried it may not get where it needs to. Justice is being done but I have to say I am (mostly) satisfied, not delighted. Penal sanction is something we must do because it is _necessary_, not because it is pleasurable. And the victims cannot be truly made whole, there is no real redress we can offer for decades of dismissal: the best we can do is make the statement that yes, you were wronged and something has to be done about it. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2018, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-cosby-guilty/813174/37 "2018-04-27T01:58:05Z")
> [@erysichthon](#): > > Yeah, when I posted that, I was pretty sure I’d get a lecture. I’d still watch an SNL sketch and laugh. Justice has been served and I’m in a good mood. I didn’t intend to lecture, but while Cosby may have seen some measure of justice (although it remains to be seen how much injury he actually suffers) his coterie of facilitators will not, and these are the people who make it possible for someone like Cosby or Harvey Weinstein to get away with this kind of behavior for decades, despite it being open knowledge. Until the tide changes sufficiently that people are too shamed or scared to protect powerful abusers, the fundamental problem still remains. We will always have predatory people trying to use their power to victimize others, but without apologizists to protect and excuse them, they won’t get far or last long. > [@Chronos](#): > > I have mixed feelings about this case. On the one hand, so much time has passed that I don’t think that it can be proven beyond a reasonable doubt that any individual one of the acts occurred (which is, of course, why when something happens, the accusations, and the response by the justice system, should happen as soon as possible). And in fact, I think it quite likely that some of the accusations are false. On the other hand, though, there were so many accusations that, statistically, I do think that it’s beyond a reasonable doubt that at least some of them did happen. I’m not really sure how a jury ought to decide in a case like that. Well, in the case of Andrea Constand, Bill Cosby paid nearly three and a half million dollars to keep her quiet. Unless you think he’s a generous soul who wishes to apologize for some minor faux pas with a princely sum of money, he’s clearly guilty of having done some major wrongdoing. On that basis, he’s pretty much undermined any reasonable doubts about accusations against him unless he can explain what other issue would be worthy of that kind of payout. As for Cosby’s other accusers, we cannot know with certainty what may or may not have occurred but the sheer volume of accusations and correlation of details of their stories argues against simple misunderstanding or anything short of a mass conspiracy. Sexual predators in particular tend to seek for situations where they can isolate a victim, and look to people they can marginalize by use of their authority or celebrity, so that such claims are often “he said vs. she said” (or “he said vs. he said”), requiring the jury to use judgment in assessing the consistency of the testimony and credibility of the parties versus considering physical evidence. If we dismiss claims simply because there are no eyewitnesses or physical evidence (often because facilitators concealed evidence and testimony) then it grants predators carte blanche as long as they can cover their tracks, which has often been the unfortunate case for sexual assaults in the past, particularly where the assailant is familiar with the victim. But while the concern of false accusations is not completely unfounded, it is noteworthy that of all of the people identified as serial predators by the #MeToo movement, not a single one has been shown to be the result of a fabricated claim. The closest would be the accusation on the [babe.net](http://babe.net) clickbait “news” site against Aziz Ansari, which is notable for the fact that the claimant remained anonymous, did not threaten charges or press for a settlement, and was not followed up by others claiming a pattern of behavior by Ansari, and in fact even from the story of the claimant, Ansari comes off as clumsy and insensitive but willing to accept verbal rejection and not doing anything that could be remotely construed as predatory sexual assault. It doesn’t seem as the legitimate accusations against people (mostly men) who are widely known to be sexual predators has spurred on a cottage industry of false accusations, and while the provisions of the law and presumption of innocence should apply to everyone accused of a crime equally, that doesn’t mean uncritically accepting denials as having the same weight as an accusation particularly when there are multiple accusations with consistent details or prior demonstration of abusive behavior. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2018, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-cosby-guilty/813174/38 "2018-04-27T01:59:17Z")
Are not any of those enablers open to litigation? From the later victims perhaps? Surely there is a crime in there somewhere, I would think. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2018, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-cosby-guilty/813174/39 "2018-04-27T02:00:23Z")
The guy testified in his civil trial that he drugged people when he was unsure about their consent, meaning he didn’t have it. Admission at the time is rather good evidence. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2018, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-cosby-guilty/813174/40 "2018-04-27T02:11:56Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > Are not any of those enablers open to litigation? From the later victims perhaps? Surely there is a crime in there somewhere, I would think. Yeah, the problem is proving a conspiracy to a crime that itself is not successfully prosecuted can be difficult unless people are willing to come forward and own up to their part in it. And doing something like negotiating a settlement for a non-disclosure can fall under attorney-client privilege even if the attorney is aware that his client has technically committed a crime. An officer of the court is ostensibly responsible for not covering up an act he knows to be a crime, but if the victim is willing to not press charges in exchange for payment, then who is he or she to say that a crime has been committed?..and so forth. Going after facilitators is pretty crucial to making people think twice about covering up for predators, but the odds of getting a successful conviction are even slimmer than convicting a predator, so there is unwillingness by a prosecutor to take up a charge with an unlikely positive result. Stranger [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-cosby-guilty/813174.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-cosby-guilty/813174.md?page=3)