# Bill Cosby's un-PC speech on values of poor blacks. Truth to power or cheap shot? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 22, 2004, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-cosbys-un-pc-speech-on-values-of-poor-blacks-truth-to-power-or-cheap-shot/246521 "2004-05-22T14:09:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2004, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-cosbys-un-pc-speech-on-values-of-poor-blacks-truth-to-power-or-cheap-shot/246521/1 "2004-05-22T14:09:40Z")
I can’t seem to find the entire speech itself, just the same highlights quoted in the Daily News article. Daily News overview [Cos gives 'em pause -Comic vents, NAACP gasps](http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/195095p-168538c.html) > [@](#): > > NAACP representatives weren’t laughing during Bill Cosby’s remarks Monday night at a D.C. gala commemorating the 50th anniversary of the Brown v. Board of Education decision. Cosby, who was honored for his massive donations to black colleges, had organizers gasping when he contrasted the '60s civil-rights pioneers with some of today’s African-Americans. > > “These people marched and were hit in the face with rocks to get an education, and now we’ve got these knuckleheads walking around,” he declared. "The lower economic people are not holding up their end in this deal. These people are not parenting. They are buying things for kids - $500 sneakers for what? And won’t spend $200 for ‘Hooked on Phonics.’ > > “I can’t even talk the way these people talk: ‘Why you ain’t,’ ‘Where you is’ … You can’t be a doctor with that kind of crap coming out of your mouth!” > > Turning to criminal justice, he said, “These are not political criminals. These are people going around stealing Coca-Cola. People getting shot in the back of the head over a piece of pound cake and then we run out and we are outraged, saying, ‘The cops shouldn’t have shot him.’ What the hell was he doing with the pound cake in his hand?” > > Cosby’s blunt appraisal left Howard University President H. Patrick Swygert and NAACP President Kweisi Mfume looking “stone-faced,” The Washington Post reports. Theodore Shaw, head of the NAACP Legal Defense and Education Fund, was quick to tell the crowd that most people on welfare are not black. Washington Post Colbert King opinion piece [‘Fix It, Brother’](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A46717-2004May21.html) Milwaukee Journal Sentinel opinon piece [Cos forgets where he started out as a child](http://www.jsonline.com/news/metro/may04/230619.asp) [Follow up by Cosby on furor](http://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/22/arts/22COSB.html) [At least they were happy when he arrived](http://www.usatoday.com/life/people/2004-05-18-cosby-honored_x.htm?POE=LIFISVA) ---
**Author:** ![pizzabrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e9c0ed/32.png) [@pizzabrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pizzabrat)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2004, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-cosbys-un-pc-speech-on-values-of-poor-blacks-truth-to-power-or-cheap-shot/246521/2 "2004-05-22T14:16:41Z")
Wow! Good to know Cosby’s balls are still functioning! I’m dismayed that so many others were upset (though I don’t think somebody should be shot in the back in the head over a piece of pound cake, especially if she’s a child) ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2004, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-cosbys-un-pc-speech-on-values-of-poor-blacks-truth-to-power-or-cheap-shot/246521/3 "2004-05-22T14:19:57Z")
Chris Rock has made the same basic point: “I love black people but I _hate_ niggers!” Neither man “owes” anything to the black community and should feel perfectly free to criticize criminal behaviour, laziness or deliberate ignorance wherever they see it. ---
**Author:** ![Uncommon\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Uncommon\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncommon_Sense)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2004, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-cosbys-un-pc-speech-on-values-of-poor-blacks-truth-to-power-or-cheap-shot/246521/4 "2004-05-22T14:35:31Z")
Amen! (more later if needed) ---
**Author:** ![The\_Green\_Feather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8e7dd6/32.png) [@The\_Green\_Feather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Green_Feather)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2004, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-cosbys-un-pc-speech-on-values-of-poor-blacks-truth-to-power-or-cheap-shot/246521/5 "2004-05-22T14:52:19Z")
I believe Will Smith has about the same attitude. I especially like the comment Bill Cosby made about ‘These people are not parenting.’ How often is there a comment ‘Were are the parents?’ This of course applies to all, not just to blacks. ---
**Author:** ![WernhamHogg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a587f6/32.png) [@WernhamHogg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WernhamHogg)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2004, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-cosbys-un-pc-speech-on-values-of-poor-blacks-truth-to-power-or-cheap-shot/246521/6 "2004-05-22T15:32:48Z")
I think the article saying Cosby “forgot where he came from,” is complete bullshit. Maybe Cosby remembers EXACTLY where he came from, but also remembers EXACTLY how he got where he is now. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2004, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-cosbys-un-pc-speech-on-values-of-poor-blacks-truth-to-power-or-cheap-shot/246521/7 "2004-05-22T16:04:28Z")
I think the offense comes from “these people”. The NAACP isn’t just for middle-class, upper-middle class people. When he says stuff like: > [@](#): > > "The lower economic people are not holding up their end in this deal. These people are not parenting. They are buying things for kids - $500 sneakers for what? And won’t spend $200 for ‘Hooked on Phonics.’ he’s offending the sensibilities of thousands of decent people who are “lower economic”. Although the NAACP has a reputation for being full of snobs, the organization itself champions itself for being one that supports black Americans as a whole, not just “our people”. The “these people” that Cosby talks about are served by the NAACP just as much–if not more–than he is. His speech alienates poor blacks, whether he intended to or not. I think he could have made the same points in a less combative, snobbish way. ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2004, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-cosbys-un-pc-speech-on-values-of-poor-blacks-truth-to-power-or-cheap-shot/246521/8 "2004-05-22T16:24:43Z")
> [@skutir](#): > > I think the article saying Cosby “forgot where he came from,” is complete bullshit. Maybe Cosby remembers EXACTLY where he came from, but also remembers EXACTLY how he got where he is now. That article raised a _somewhat_ valid point, when it pointed out that Bill Cosby has a child out of wedlock and shouldn’t be quick to criticize. HOWEVER, I think there’s a huge difference between fathering an illegitimate child and inner city crime. Speaking as a moral conservative, I consider both to be deplorable, but the latter is magnitudes more severe. Similarly, I don’t this this should disqualify Cosby from speaking out against speech patterns like “Why you ain’t” and “Where you is.” Having an illegitimate child could be chalked up to a one-time failing, or even a personal weakness. This is very different from the attitude which Cosby is lamenting, wherein people fail to master the kind of English that will help them get good jobs and good educations. (Before anyone objects… I don’t think Cosby was merely complaining about the use of ebonics, or African-American vernacular. Based on the phrasing of his statement, I think it’s clear that he was complaining about the failure to learn standard English, which can exist side-by-side with black vernacular speech.) ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2004, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-cosbys-un-pc-speech-on-values-of-poor-blacks-truth-to-power-or-cheap-shot/246521/9 "2004-05-22T16:30:07Z")
**Pizzabrat** said it best. Cos still has balls. There are times when unpleasant truths must by spoken. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2004, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-cosbys-un-pc-speech-on-values-of-poor-blacks-truth-to-power-or-cheap-shot/246521/10 "2004-05-22T18:32:58Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > There are times when unpleasant truths must by spoken. Agreed. ---
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2004, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-cosbys-un-pc-speech-on-values-of-poor-blacks-truth-to-power-or-cheap-shot/246521/11 "2004-05-22T18:44:28Z")
Bill Cosby is right! And it’s interesting to see how some people try to disprove him: they use very vague, philosophic arguments, which aren’t relevant to the very specific charges that Cosby aims at black culture. His attackers say “Cosby has forgotten his background, he is out of touch with the difficult life in the ghetto, he has an illegitimate child” But what’s all that got to do with Cosby’s very legitmate accusation that many blacks don’t use good English? A bad environment obvously discourages a kid from getting a good education. But even poor kids from the worst neigborhood watch television.And nobody on TV says “Where you is”. ---
**Author:** ![Futile\_Gesture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f05b48/32.png) [@Futile\_Gesture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Futile_Gesture)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2004, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-cosbys-un-pc-speech-on-values-of-poor-blacks-truth-to-power-or-cheap-shot/246521/12 "2004-05-22T19:10:40Z")
Sounds like the USA needs its very own series of [Grumpy Old Men](http://grumpy-old-men.co.uk/) . The point this TV series makes is once you reach a certain age, you’re certain the world is going to hell in a handbasket. And it happens with every generation. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2004, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-cosbys-un-pc-speech-on-values-of-poor-blacks-truth-to-power-or-cheap-shot/246521/13 "2004-05-22T20:22:36Z")
Incidentally, it’s never been proven that Cosby is the father of Autumn Jackson. He admits to having had sex with her mother but said he believes the dates are off; he did support her and her mother for several years. The whole business came to the forefront when she tried to extort $40 million from him and he basically said “go foreward and be damned” (my words, not his), and again, even if she is or isn’t his he did support her financially. I agree with most of what Cosby said, though it goes for whites and Latinos and all others just as much as blacks. His late son worked with inner city youth and Cosby has given millions to black educational organizations, so he’s not totally out of touch. (He has become increasingly curmudgeonly since Ennis’s murder, not unlike Twain after the deaths of his daughters.) ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2004, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-cosbys-un-pc-speech-on-values-of-poor-blacks-truth-to-power-or-cheap-shot/246521/14 "2004-05-22T21:54:20Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > Incidentally, it’s never been proven that Cosby is the father of Autumn Jackson. He admits to having had sex with her mother but said he believes the dates are off; he did support her and her mother for several years. The whole business came to the forefront when she tried to extort $40 million from him and he basically said “go foreward and be damned” (my words, not his), and again, even if she is or isn’t his he did support her financially. > > I agree with most of what Cosby said, though it goes for whites and Latinos and all others just as much as blacks. His late son worked with inner city youth and Cosby has given millions to black educational organizations, so he’s not totally out of touch. (He has become increasingly curmudgeonly since Ennis’s murder, not unlike Twain after the deaths of his daughters.) [Googling up this picture](http://www.canoe.ca/TelevisionCosby/jul25_cosby.html), [and this one](http://www.eonline.com/News/Items/0,1,1502,00.html) I can see why he might feel that way. The resembance isn’t all that obvious. It was [kind of odd the way he wanted, and then cancelled a paternity test early on](http://www.cnn.com/US/9707/30/cosby.paternity/) because he didn’t want it to get to the media, and then, when the prosecution was proceeding, had blood drawn for a paternity test and she (Autumn Jackson) refused to take the test. In looking at her I think he began to feel that she was _not_ his kid. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2004, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-cosbys-un-pc-speech-on-values-of-poor-blacks-truth-to-power-or-cheap-shot/246521/15 "2004-05-22T22:11:35Z")
I accidently cut the last part off my previous port. [Younger Cosby](http://www.indiana.edu/~bfca/images/cosby.jpg) [Mom](http://www.cnn.com/US/9707/30/cosby.paternity/upshaw.jpg) [Autumn Jackson](http://cache.eonline.com/News/Photos/j/jackson.autumn.709.jpg) > [@](#): > > “I asked her to dance and we did. Then I asked for her phone number and wanted to see her,” he said. A few years later, Cosby said, he contacted Upshaw again and asked her to meet him in Las Vegas. > > “We were sitting in a living room on the 30th floor of the Hilton Hotel,” he said, “We were talking. It was the daytime and Shawn showed me a picture of a child.” > > He said she told him, “This is your daughter.” > > Cosby said he responded, “That’s not my daughter.” > > He said he promised to pay for the college education of all three of Upshaw’s children, as he had done for more than 300 other children over the years. Cosby said Jackson always addressed him as “Mr. Cosby” and he always called her Autumn. > > Relationship changed > But he said the relationship changed when he learned that Jackson had dropped out of school. In December, he said, he ignored two phone messages from her. Then he got a message from an “Autumn Cosby.” > > He called her back. “As far as I was concerned, she was making some sort of threat,” he said. > > After she told him she was homeless and $2,100 in debt, he promised to send her $3,000 and renewed the offer to pay for her education. When he asked her why she used his last name, she denied it and said, “I didn’t say anything about you.” > > “Well, don’t tell people,” Cosby recalled telling her. > > Jackson and co-defendant Jose Medina, of Bethesda, Ohio, were arrested in January in New York, where prosecutors say they had flown from Los Angeles to try to collect money from Cosby. ---
**Author:** ![TeaElle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8491ac/32.png) [@TeaElle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TeaElle)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2004, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-cosbys-un-pc-speech-on-values-of-poor-blacks-truth-to-power-or-cheap-shot/246521/16 "2004-05-22T22:31:44Z")
Cosby has become increasingly, uh, I guess I’ll say “interesting” in public appearances lately. In recent appearances on both Ellen and Letterman, he went into these lengthy stories that seemed to have nothing to do with anything, they were just stories that he felt like telling that day, and because he’s Cosby, he’s allowed to do that. I was starting to worry that all was not entirely well with his mind, truthfully speaking. Now I realize, he’s just got his agendas, and he is taking advantage of the respect to say whatever is on his mind, opinion be damned. And in this case, he’s 100% right. He may have been slightly overbroad in suggesting that all poor black parents are failing to properly prioritize their money but from my observations, he’s really not all that far off. Excursions into a working poor black neighborhood in the going-to/coming-from school hours _will_ reveal a bunch of kids wearing expensive athletic shoes and pricey designer clothes or athletic jerseys but live in cruddy apartments or rental houses and whose parents drive 1980s vintage cars (if they own a car) and can’t seem to afford curtains or blinds (or screens) for the windows. The truly indigent don’t seem to fall into the consumption-over-common-sense trap, but I’ve seen countless families who could be living in much better circumstances if they were putting more budget toward clean, safe, decently furnished housing and less to the latest Tommy Hilfiger, FUBU or Nike gear. I don’t think it’s out of line to point that out. Over the long term, kids are definitely going to benefit more from living in a nicer home (which would tend to be in a nicer neighborhood) than from wearing the coolest clothes. The bottom line is that there are elements of black America which need - nay, **deserve** - confrontation and scorn. The so-called “black leaders” haven’t been doing it. They’re more interested in carping about macro political issues, extortive lawsuits and continue to place their focus _outside_ the black community at all of the ways that prejudice and bigotry oppress blacks and hold us back. We need people who are willing to focus inward and look at the ways that we’re holding ourselves back, and though I doubt this is the beginning of such a crusade on Cosby’s part, if it encourages others to start taking the same stand and shed a little light and foment some positive change, then fan-freaking-tastic. So to answer the OP’s question: truth to power, and one that’s been a (too) long time in coming. ---
**Author:** ![DadWagonDriver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/edb3f5/32.png) [@DadWagonDriver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DadWagonDriver)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2004, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-cosbys-un-pc-speech-on-values-of-poor-blacks-truth-to-power-or-cheap-shot/246521/17 "2004-05-22T23:28:47Z")
I’d just like to point out something no one else has yet: Bill Cosby has a doctorate in education. That’s part of the reason he takes the issue so seriously. ---
**Author:** ![pizzabrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e9c0ed/32.png) [@pizzabrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pizzabrat)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2004, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-cosbys-un-pc-speech-on-values-of-poor-blacks-truth-to-power-or-cheap-shot/246521/18 "2004-05-22T23:53:43Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > Bill Cosby is right! > And it’s interesting to see how some people try to disprove him: they use very vague, philosophic arguments, which aren’t relevant to the very specific charges that Cosby aims at black culture. > > His attackers say “Cosby has forgotten his background, he is out of touch with the difficult life in the ghetto, he has an illegitimate child” > > But what’s all that got to do with Cosby’s very legitmate accusation that many blacks don’t use good English? > > A bad environment obvously discourages a kid from getting a good education. But even poor kids from the worst neigborhood watch television.And nobody on TV says “Where you is”. Woah, calm down! Don’t get too happy, pal. First of all, are you seriously suggesting that poor kids should be watching _more_ TV for English lessons? Second, as legitmate as the accusation of poor English usage amongst blacks is, like it or not, you pointing it out in racial terms isn’t going to help, as people like me will naturally be defensive and shoot back with the equally legitimate observation that poor English is a nation-wide pathology and wonder why you decided to hone in on blacks so harshly, tying both our hands up from fixing the real problem at hand. ---
**Author:** ![raindog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@raindog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raindog)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2004, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-cosbys-un-pc-speech-on-values-of-poor-blacks-truth-to-power-or-cheap-shot/246521/19 "2004-05-23T00:09:04Z")
**pizzabrat said:** > [@](#): > > …,tying both our hands up from fixing the real problem at hand. Which is?.. ---
**Author:** ![pizzabrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e9c0ed/32.png) [@pizzabrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pizzabrat)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2004, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-cosbys-un-pc-speech-on-values-of-poor-blacks-truth-to-power-or-cheap-shot/246521/20 "2004-05-23T00:23:43Z")
> [@the raindog](#): > > **pizzabrat said:** > > Which is?.. English bettering. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-cosbys-un-pc-speech-on-values-of-poor-blacks-truth-to-power-or-cheap-shot/246521.md?page=2)