# Bill Gates: Keep your hands off those penises. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 12, 2012, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-gates-keep-your-hands-off-those-penises/643857 "2012-12-12T19:57:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![blindboyard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blindboyard/32/2833_2.png) [@blindboyard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blindboyard)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2012, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-gates-keep-your-hands-off-those-penises/643857/1 "2012-12-12T19:57:29Z")
Penii. Possibly penes. Some of you may be aware that Bill Gates has decided to very slowly give some of his money away, and has spent about 200 million dollars on a mass circumcision campaign in sub-Saharan Africa. Supposedly this is the stop the spread of HIV. The trouble is that compared to, say, spending that money on distributing condoms, mass ciorcumcision has two major drawbacks. Circumcision is dangerous. Obviously it’s not that dangerous compared to most operations, but it’s much more dangerous than donning a condom. And dozens of men have been killed by the Gates’ circumcision drive. Circumcision doesn’t work. Some studies show that circumcision makes you less likely to contract HIV while having sex with an infected woman. Also, more likely to infect women if you have sex with them while infected. But the difference is, if it exists at all, very minor compared to wearing a condom. But there’s worse: men don’t like the idea of having a slice taken out of their penis, so they were convinced by being told it would make them immune to HIV. Hence [lots more unprotected sex now](http://www.malawivoice.com/2012/10/31/circumcised-men-on-sex-spree-they-think-they-are-immune-to-hiv-18495/). Almost three quarters of the newly circumcised have stopped using condoms, and the circumcised even get discounts from prostitutes, who don’t even demand they use contraception. So well done Bill Gates, you killed some men, mutilated a load of men, and jump started the flagging rate of expansion in the HIV infected population of Africa. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Plastic\_Ninja](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f07891/32.png) [@Little\_Plastic\_Ninja](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Plastic_Ninja)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2012, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-gates-keep-your-hands-off-those-penises/643857/2 "2012-12-12T20:03:18Z")
Because I can’t be arsed to do the research myself: Is this the only activity this group takes? Do they have initiatives other than snipping tips? Or is the Tip-Snippery Foundation? I just want to know what percentage of their work goes to circumcising men as opposed to condoms, training, et cetera. Is this more akin to, say, the Catholic Church saying condoms don’t work? Or is it somewhere closer to Planned Parenthood providing abortions? I only have so much outrage, after all. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2012, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-gates-keep-your-hands-off-those-penises/643857/3 "2012-12-12T20:13:50Z")
I’m with Little Plastic Ninja on this one…could we get a cite to show what we are supposed to be outraged about? I looked up the Gates Foundation (here on [Wiki](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_%26_Melinda_Gates_Foundation)), and I’m not seeing anything about snipping tips. > [@](#): > > Global Health Program > > The President of the Global Health Program is Trevor Mundel. The Gates Foundation has quickly become a major influence upon global health; the approximately US$800 million that the foundation gives every year for global health approaches the annual budget of the United Nations World Health Organization (193 nations) and is comparable to the funds given to fight infectious disease by the United States Agency for International Development.[20] > > The Global Health Program’s significant grants include: > > The Global Fund to Fight AIDS, Tuberculosis and Malaria > Over $1.3 billion donated as of 2012. > > Polio eradication > The Foundation provides 17% (US$86 million in 2006) of the world budget for the attempted eradication of polio myelitis (polio).[21] > > The Global Alliance for Vaccines and Immunization > The foundation gave The Global Alliance for Vaccines and Immunization a donation of US$750 million on January 25, 2005.[22][23] > > Children’s Vaccine Program > The Children’s Vaccine Program, run by the Program for Appropriate Technology in Health (PATH), received a donation of US$27 million to help vaccinate against Japanese encephalitis on December 9, 2003.[24] > > University of Washington Department of Global Health > The foundation provided approximately US$30 million for the foundation of the new Department of Global Health at the University of Washington in Seattle. The donation promoted three of the Foundation’s target areas: education, Pacific Northwest and global health. The foundation also lead a study to increase access to high education globally. > > HIV Research > The foundation has donated a grand total of US$287 million to various HIV/AIDS researchers. The money was split between sixteen different research teams across the world, on the condition that they share their findings with one another.[25] > > Aeras Global TB Vaccine Foundation > The foundation gave the Aeras Global TB Vaccine Foundation more than US$280 million to develop and license an improved vaccine against tuberculosis for use in high burden countries.[26][27] > > Visceral Leishmaniasis Research > The foundation awarded the Hebrew University of Jerusalem Kuvin Center for the Study of Infectious and Tropical Diseases a US$5 million grant in 2009 for research into visceral leishmaniasis, an emerging parasitic disease in Ethiopia where it is frequently associated with HIV/AIDS, and a leading cause of adult illness and death. The project is a collaborative effort with Addis Ababa University and will gather data for analysis to identify the weak links in the transmission cycle and devise methods for control of the disease.[28] > > Reinventing the Toilet > The foundation has launched a competition to improve sanitation to create a new type of toilet.[29] With grants provided by the foundation, CalTech created a solar-powered restroom that won first prize; other awardees include teams from Loughborough University and University of Toronto.[30] To further this effort The Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation has offered nearly $7 million dollars to engineers to help improve sanitation in the various countries affected by the poor sanitation crisis.[31] > > ``` > The foundation has also given The Institute for OneWorld Health a donation of nearly US$10 million to support the organization's work on a drug for visceral leishmaniasis. > > ``` ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2012, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-gates-keep-your-hands-off-those-penises/643857/4 "2012-12-12T20:26:33Z")
In fact, I question the validity of the site being used for this cite. For instance, one of their linked articles on circumcision declares that both CNN and Time “declare male circumcision as biggest medical breakthrough of 2007.” What?! Not only does that sound preposterous, if you Google about that, you only find that article, their own Facebook page, one random link-aggregating blog, and a 404’d webpage even mentioning it, and they all refer to the Malawi Voice article, and not the grand proclamations of two major news outlets. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2012, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-gates-keep-your-hands-off-those-penises/643857/5 "2012-12-12T20:37:16Z")
Withdrawing/amending my previous objection - changing up the search, Time published a blurb in 2007 regarding Lancet-published research showing that circumcision reduced HIV infection rates in circumcised men by 51% in that study, and lauding it as one of the top 10 medical findings for that year. Not a total prevention. I would like to see the published data cited in the OP, as well as a link to the assertion that these patients were told they would be free from HIV infection by doing this, and a solid link to the Gates Foundation efforts. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2012, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-gates-keep-your-hands-off-those-penises/643857/6 "2012-12-12T21:12:14Z")
> [@Ferret\_Herder](#): > > Withdrawing/amending my previous objection - changing up the search, Time published a blurb in 2007 regarding Lancet-published research showing that circumcision reduced HIV infection rates in circumcised men by 51% in that study, and lauding it as one of the top 10 medical findings for that year. Not a total prevention. FWIW, this is directly in line with what I’ve read about the link between circumcision and HIV transmission. I’d be curious to see some discussion about the merit of that study, plus some back up on the anti-Gates claims in the OP. If the study can be trusted (and what I read before seemed to indicate that it could be), I see absolutely nothing wrong with Bill throwing a bit of money behind it-- HIV prevention is HIV prevention, even if it’s not perfect. And hell, you say that money could be spent on condoms like Gates doesn’t fund traditional anti HIV campaigns, too. ---
**Author:** ![blindboyard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blindboyard/32/2833_2.png) [@blindboyard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blindboyard)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2012, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-gates-keep-your-hands-off-those-penises/643857/7 "2012-12-12T21:24:38Z")
Yeah, Bill Gates’ charity does other stuff too. But they also do the circumcision, as see[here](http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn17312-bill-gates-helps-fund-mass-circumcision-programme.html). And there’s circumcisions [increasing transmission of HIV](http://open.salon.com/blog/judy_mandelbaum/2012/07/27/africas_male_circumcision_crusade_boon_or_boondoggle), [causing HIV](http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1047279706002651), [causing injuries and death](http://www.news.com.au/news/botched-circumcisions-leave-31-dead/story-fna7dq6e-1225745893159), [increasing the spread of HIV](http://www.zimeye.org/wp-content/live_images/2012/01/44-419-1-PB.pdf) (pdf), [lack of effectiveness of circumcision](http://www.cirp.org/library/disease/HIV/vanhowe4/). ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2012, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-gates-keep-your-hands-off-those-penises/643857/8 "2012-12-12T21:35:22Z")
Half of your links don’t work, but of the one’s that do I am not seeing this as worthy of pitting Gates over. From your first link (which does work obviously): > [@](#): > > Microsoft founder Bill Gates last week injected $50 million into a programme to circumcise up to 650,000 men in Swaziland and Zambia. > > The goal of the project is to curb the transmission of HIV in two of the AIDS hotspots of the world, as circumcision has been shown to more than halve the risk of men becoming infected. > > Funded for five years through the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, the programme is the first to massively scale up provision of circumcision by fully trained medical practitioners. > > Traditional methods of circumcision sometimes harm and even kill boys and young men. The network of 250 teams of providers will be managed by Population Services International, a global health organisation based in Washington, DC. The third link also works, which is about 31 killed in botched circumcisions…which doesn’t seem to have anything to do with Gates. Even if it did, 31 out of 650,000 is a pretty remarkable number considering where these things are being done. I also found [this](http://www.policymic.com/articles/20286/birth-control-breakthrough-gates-foundation-funds-development-of-high-tech-condoms): > [@](#): > > Gates Foundation Funds Development of High Tech Condoms > > Last Wednesday, researchers from the University of Washington published a paper in PLoS One detailing the design of an innovative condom that uses “electrospinning” to craft the next generation of contraception using customized nano-fibers. > > The work of the University of Washington bioengineers led to the creation of an ultra-thin female condom woven out of cloth-like fibers and medicine that block the transmission of semen and HIV in vitro. The electrospun condoms can be designed to dissolve within minutes or a few days. > > Creating effective condoms, according to the abstract, is a “global health priority.” Oh, and among the ‘other stuff too’ that the Gates Foundation does is to provide [condoms in Africa and India](http://www.gatesfoundation.org/avahan/Pages/meeting-the-challenge.aspx) (presumably not the ones under development, but just the old fashioned kind). > [@](#): > > Condom Distribution > Condoms are highly effective in reducing the spread of HIV. Each month, Avahan’s partners distribute approximately eight million free condoms in communities at greatest risk. They achieve this distribution through a dynamic peer network and vending machines at truck stops, health clinics, and roadside restaurants and shops. So, I’m failing to see the outrage to be honest. It’s not like Gates (or his and his wife’s foundation) is ONLY pushing circumcision as the only method of HIV prevention…it’s one of multiple options they are looking at to try and curb HIV in the developing world. And it’s not like there isn’t some reason WHY they are pushing circumcision as an option, since the first link you provided pretty clearly states ‘as circumcision has been shown to more than halve the risk of men becoming infected’. ---
**Author:** ![74westy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/74westy/32/3950_2.png) [@74westy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/74westy)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2012, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-gates-keep-your-hands-off-those-penises/643857/9 "2012-12-12T21:37:44Z")
[Gates Foundation HIV Strategy Overview [PDF]](http://www.gatesfoundation.org/hivaids/Documents/hiv-strategy-overview.pdf) > [@Gates Foundation](#): > > Voluntary Medical Male Circumcision > > Research indicates that widespread male circumcision could > play a major role in limiting the spread of HIV in the parts of > Sub-Saharan Africa where HIV is highly prevalent. However, > insufficient supply and weak demand for male circumcision > has limited the preventive impact of this intervention. The > foundation invests in male circumcision efforts at two levels: > It supports planning and coordination to spur circumcision > efforts in 14 target African countries, and it supports the > development and introduction of devices that can facilitate > nonsurgical, low-cost, and low-tech circumcision. Other foci of research: Vaccine Research and Development Anti-Retroviral Prevention Methods Efficient and Effective Service Delivery Improved Diagnostic Methods Demonstrating the Scalability of HIV Programs ---
**Author:** ![Suil\_Dubh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/85f322/32.png) [@Suil\_Dubh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suil_Dubh)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2012, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-gates-keep-your-hands-off-those-penises/643857/10 "2012-12-12T23:04:54Z")
> [@](#): > > Gates Foundation Funds Development of High Tech Condoms Microsoft Security Essentials™ for Men. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2012, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-gates-keep-your-hands-off-those-penises/643857/11 "2012-12-12T23:06:39Z")
> [@Suil\_Dubh](#): > > Microsoft Security Essentials™ for Men. Personally, I’d wait until at least Service Pack 1 is released before trying one out… ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2012, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-gates-keep-your-hands-off-those-penises/643857/12 "2012-12-12T23:10:25Z")
Otherwise, you might get a virus. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2012, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-gates-keep-your-hands-off-those-penises/643857/13 "2012-12-12T23:11:27Z")
“Hi! I’m Clippy! It appears you want to [have sex]! Mind if I help?” ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2012, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-gates-keep-your-hands-off-those-penises/643857/14 "2012-12-12T23:31:36Z")
Sorry but I’m not getting the outrage. IS JDT in the house? Maybe we can get a different view - so to speak. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2012, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-gates-keep-your-hands-off-those-penises/643857/15 "2012-12-13T01:21:17Z")
This is the same poster who’s currently outraged in GD about supposed attempts to increase rape convictions and about how that’s a bad thing. Because women are lying sluts who oppress men with tons of fake rape claims. ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2012, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-gates-keep-your-hands-off-those-penises/643857/16 "2012-12-13T01:28:02Z")
Now I’m wondering how you do a “non surgical” circumscision. ---
**Author:** ![Uber\_the\_Goober](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/58956e/32.png) [@Uber\_the\_Goober](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uber_the_Goober)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2012, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-gates-keep-your-hands-off-those-penises/643857/17 "2012-12-13T01:33:30Z")
Ok, so here’s my thought. Bill Gates is secretly a racist, and wants all blacks to die. So he decides to take out “The Motherland” by facilitating the spread of HIV. Obviously, this isn’t going to work as intended, but it makes for a hilarious Adult Swim parody cartoon idea… ---
**Author:** ![Lasciel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e79b87/32.png) [@Lasciel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lasciel)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2012, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-gates-keep-your-hands-off-those-penises/643857/18 "2012-12-13T02:40:44Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > Now I’m wondering how you do a “non surgical” circumscision. Serious answer: topical chemicals of some sort? Like SuperNair or something. Nonserious answer - rubber bands! Fully aware that SuperNair is not entirely serious either. This IS the Pit. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2012, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-gates-keep-your-hands-off-those-penises/643857/19 "2012-12-13T05:28:51Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally Posted by Gates Foundation > Voluntary Medical Male Circumcision Voluntary? What kind of controversy is this guy trying to stir up? ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2012, 7:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-gates-keep-your-hands-off-those-penises/643857/20 "2012-12-13T07:33:52Z")
> [@Suil\_Dubh](#): > > Microsoft Security Essentials™ for Men. No. I don’t want the blue cock of death. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-gates-keep-your-hands-off-those-penises/643857.md?page=2)