# Bill Maher 4/13/2006 - Bush appoints lawyers from Pat Robertson's Law School **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 19, 2007, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-maher-4-13-2006-bush-appoints-lawyers-from-pat-robertsons-law-school/400806 "2007-04-19T17:08:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Orbifold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/779978/32.png) [@Orbifold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orbifold)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2007, 10:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-maher-4-13-2006-bush-appoints-lawyers-from-pat-robertsons-law-school/400806/61 "2007-04-23T10:12:11Z")
[QUOTE=Polycarp] What does it take to outrage you, any fucking way? [/QUOTE] I was outraged about Maher Arar. I was outraged about Habeas Corpus. I was outraged about the end-runs around the FISA court. I was outraged about extraordinary rendition, about assaults on academic freedom, about “airline security” consisting of sticking your toothpaste in a Ziploc baggie, about waterboarding, about any number of things. And in return I was insulted by one end of the political spectrum and, for all intents and purposes, ignored by the other. This is not meant to be a slam against you, **Polycarp**. But there’s only so many times I can say the same thing…that this administration has only one setting, and it’s “FUCKUP”…before I start to believe that _nothing_ will happen until the United States is dragged right off the cliff. Dragged by the likes of Monica Goodling, Alberto Gonzales, Michael Brown, Tom Delay, Jack Abramoff, Randy Cunningham, Bernard Kerik, Chris Mooney, Julie MacDonald, David Hager, I. Lewis Libby, Paul Wolfowitz, Bill Frist, Thomas Noe, David Safavian, and all the other chuckleheads associated the White House. And when it happens the Limbaughs, the Coulters, the Hannitys, and the Savages will try to blame me and people like me, and all the shouting in the world by me isn’t going to change that. There. Rant over. ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2007, 10:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-maher-4-13-2006-bush-appoints-lawyers-from-pat-robertsons-law-school/400806/62 "2007-04-23T10:37:23Z")
In defense of Messiah College, it’s definitely a Christian college, and many of its graduates are pretty conservative, but it is accredited by the regional accrediting body, and its programs are also accredited by their respective professional bodies. For example, Messiah students are taught actual science, not Creationism, unlike those at Bob Jones University. That said, I’ve known graduates of Messiah, and I’ve met a few faculty. While I wouldn’t attend or teach there, their graduates seem to be intelligent and their faculty are dedicated. (in fact, the woman in [this photo](http://www.messiah.edu/departments/communication/) and I worked together on a project last semester. We also had to pitch a charity to the class, and hers wasn’t necessarily a Christian charity. BTW, this was a master’s program at a public, secular university.) Please don’t paint Messiah with a broad brush. It may be a Christian college, but its graduates actually have learned something. Robin ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2007, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-maher-4-13-2006-bush-appoints-lawyers-from-pat-robertsons-law-school/400806/63 "2007-04-23T12:08:13Z")
**Robyn** , while Messiah has been mentioned (thanks to the fact that it was Ms. Goodling’s undergraduate alma mater), the focus of this is on [del]CBN[/del] Regent University, Pat Robertson’s private [del]brainwashing[/del] training grounds, and the Unholy Alliance between the 43rd President of the United States and that school that has gotten 1/6 of their graduates positions in the Bush Administration, mostly at the Dept. of Justice. Did I mention that Pat Robertson is on record as saying that Regent University is so named because a regent is one who holds political power for another, and Regent’s goal is to train up people to gain and hold political power and wield it in the name of Jesus Christ and [their opinion of] Christ’s Will. And this is in print in a book published in 1994? I half feel like a conspiracy theorist for saying that. But dammit, you can chase down the details on it. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2007, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-maher-4-13-2006-bush-appoints-lawyers-from-pat-robertsons-law-school/400806/64 "2007-04-23T12:51:27Z")
[QUOTE=Cervaise] But politicizing law enforcement? Turning federal prosecutors into an arm of the campaign machine? That, to me, is an utterly inexcusable abuse of power. In my mind, and according to my view of the American political system, you can be as much of an asshole as you want to be… _but you have to give the people a fair shot at tossing you out if they disapprove._ The moment you try to subvert the electoral system, it is incumbent upon us, for sake of the national honor, to strip you of your power and ban you from office. There is no worse offense than that. [/QUOTE] Agreed. Unfortunately, it is probably not, strictly speaking, illegal. ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2007, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-maher-4-13-2006-bush-appoints-lawyers-from-pat-robertsons-law-school/400806/65 "2007-04-23T13:01:45Z")
[QUOTE=Polycarp] **Robyn** , while Messiah has been mentioned (thanks to the fact that it was Ms. Goodling’s undergraduate alma mater), the focus of this is on [del]CBN[/del] Regent University, Pat Robertson’s private [del]brainwashing[/del] training grounds, and the Unholy Alliance between the 43rd President of the United States and that school that has gotten 1/6 of their graduates positions in the Bush Administration, mostly at the Dept. of Justice. Did I mention that Pat Robertson is on record as saying that Regent University is so named because a regent is one who holds political power for another, and Regent’s goal is to train up people to gain and hold political power and wield it in the name of Jesus Christ and [their opinion of] Christ’s Will. And this is in print in a book published in 1994? I half feel like a conspiracy theorist for saying that. But dammit, you can chase down the details on it. [/QUOTE] I understand the part about Regent University. I lived in Tidewater Virginia while the school was trying to get ABA accreditation. There were so many problems with it that a lot of people were wondering if that would ever happen. However, I perceived that many posters were painting Messiah with the same brush, and having known graduates and faculty from that college, I feel that’s unfair. Robin ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2007, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-maher-4-13-2006-bush-appoints-lawyers-from-pat-robertsons-law-school/400806/66 "2007-04-23T13:27:20Z")
[QUOTE=wolf\_meister] I wonder what would have happened if the team assembled for the Manhattan Project or the Apollo Moon Landing consisted entirely of graduates of Messiah College or Bob Jones University. [/QUOTE] It’s been tried. Apparently, the Master Race wasn’t up to the task. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2007, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-maher-4-13-2006-bush-appoints-lawyers-from-pat-robertsons-law-school/400806/67 "2007-04-23T14:35:33Z")
[QUOTE=MsRobyn] …BTW, this was a master’s program at a public, secular university.)… [/QUOTE] I am sure I speak for many here to express my confidence that you will acquit yourself handily, and look forward to addressing\*\* Dr. MsRobyn, PhD\*\*. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2007, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-maher-4-13-2006-bush-appoints-lawyers-from-pat-robertsons-law-school/400806/68 "2007-04-23T15:11:28Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Agreed. Unfortunately, it is probably not, strictly speaking, illegal. [/QUOTE] Isn’t it, though? Hatch act, and I could swear some others. That assistant to Gonzales is taking the 5th for some reason… and I get the feeling we’re about to have the other shoe drop when she gets immunity. ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2007, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-maher-4-13-2006-bush-appoints-lawyers-from-pat-robertsons-law-school/400806/69 "2007-04-23T15:46:39Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] I am sure I speak for many here to express my confidence that you will acquit yourself handily, and look forward to addressing\*\* Dr. MsRobyn, PhD\*\*. [/QUOTE] Yeah, because academia suffers from a shortage of liberals. 😃 Robin ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2007, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-maher-4-13-2006-bush-appoints-lawyers-from-pat-robertsons-law-school/400806/70 "2007-04-23T16:17:16Z")
[QUOTE=Polycarp] Jesus Christ undergoing meiosis, people!! **Wolf meister** brings forward Bill Maher’s esposé of efforts to infiltrate the DOJ with graduates of a fourth-rate law school founded by a televangelist whom I’ve given evidence has theocratic plans, with that information supported by a wide assortment of data from across the Internet – and the thread dies a slow death, while everybody psychoanalyzes Cho and the covert homophilia of the movie 300. There was a sarcastic remark that this Administration was safe unless one of its leaders was caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy. And, thanks to that clown from Florida, we may as well scratch the “live boy” clause too. What does it take to outrage you, any fucking way? [/QUOTE] I’ve read the whole thread and the links, and I’m not sure what I’m supposed to be upset about. AFAICT it all boils down to “OMG! The Bush administration is hiring people who agree with their basic philosophical stance! I don’t believe in that stance, so it’s wrong! Plus they’re likely Christians! We can’t have any Christians in government!” People who went to Regent University may not be the most qualified people in the world (then again they may, a person’s ability is not necessarily measured by his or her schooling), but are the unqualified? If they are, THAT is where the outrage should come from, but this “Woe and gloom, they’re hiring people who went to a Christian University” is beyond me, and the whole “They’re infiltrating the Justice Dept!” subtext is frankly nothing more than conspiracy theory nonsense. If, say, Dennis Kusinich won the presidency, I would expect it to be a banner year for graduates of Bearkley. Thats how it works, how it has worked for over 200 years. Each administration brings in people that it thinks will best help advance their agenda. What exactly is it I’m supposed to be outraged at? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2007, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-maher-4-13-2006-bush-appoints-lawyers-from-pat-robertsons-law-school/400806/71 "2007-04-23T16:30:08Z")
Are you suggesting that Regent’s Law School’s assessment as a “fourth tier” law school is the work of secular atheists agenda at the ABA? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2007, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-maher-4-13-2006-bush-appoints-lawyers-from-pat-robertsons-law-school/400806/72 "2007-04-23T16:41:56Z")
[QUOTE=Weirddave] Thats how it works, how it has worked for over 200 years. Each administration brings in people that it thinks will best help advance their agenda. [/QUOTE] Yeah, for **patronage** jobs. Not civil service. Civil service is supposed to be purely professional, meritocratic, nonpolitical and nonpartisan. That is the **point** of civil service, to provide an alternative to the spoils system. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2007, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-maher-4-13-2006-bush-appoints-lawyers-from-pat-robertsons-law-school/400806/73 "2007-04-23T16:47:42Z")
[QUOTE=MsRobyn] Yeah, because academia suffers from a shortage of liberals… [/QUOTE] An entirely adequate number of persons who can be called “Dr.” Not nearly enough who are called “Mom”. ---
**Author:** ![stolichnaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bcef8e/32.png) [@stolichnaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stolichnaya)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2007, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-maher-4-13-2006-bush-appoints-lawyers-from-pat-robertsons-law-school/400806/74 "2007-04-23T17:26:53Z")
And one who be called both: [http://www.dr-mom.com/](http://www.dr-mom.com/) ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2007, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-maher-4-13-2006-bush-appoints-lawyers-from-pat-robertsons-law-school/400806/75 "2007-04-23T17:58:19Z")
[QUOTE=Weirddave] I’ve read the whole thread and the links, and I’m not sure what I’m supposed to be upset about. AFAICT it all boils down to "OMG! The Bush administration is hiring people who agree with their basic philosophical stance! [/QUOTE] Are you sure you’ve read _this_ thread? The problem isn’t that they’re hiring political appointees that share their philosophy. That’s what you expect. And it isn’t even that they’re firing and hiring U.S. Attorneys based on which party they’re investigating - that’s a different thread. It’s that they’re going out of their way to hire people based on political (and apparently religious) affiliation for _civil service_ positions, which are protected by law from that sort of hiring discrimination. ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2007, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-maher-4-13-2006-bush-appoints-lawyers-from-pat-robertsons-law-school/400806/76 "2007-04-23T18:47:10Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] An entirely adequate number of persons who can be called “Dr.” Not nearly enough who are called “Mom”. [/QUOTE] “You finish your homework or _you’re grounded_!” Robin ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2007, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-maher-4-13-2006-bush-appoints-lawyers-from-pat-robertsons-law-school/400806/77 "2007-04-23T18:50:11Z")
[QUOTE=RTFirefly] It’s that they’re going out of their way to hire people based on political (and apparently religious) affiliation for _civil service_ positions, which are protected by law from that sort of hiring discrimination. [/QUOTE] Well then I’d say you have a mess of proof to dig up. Nothing here rises to that evidenciary level. We have a Bill Mahr op=ed, another op-ed, you linked to a leftist bolg that cites another leftist blog as one of it sources and then there is the piece in Slate, which doesn’t say what you probably think it says. Read the last two paragraphs" > [@Slate](#): > > Is there anything wrong with legal scholarship from a Christian perspective? Not that I see. Is there anything wrong with a Bush administration that disproportionately uses graduates from such Christian law schools to fill its staffing needs? Not that I see. It’s a shorthand, not better or worse than cherry-picking the Federalist Society or the bar association. I can’t even get exercised over the fact that Gonzales, Rove, and Miers had their baby lawyers making critical staffing decisions for them. The baby lawyers had extremely clear marching orders. > > No, the real concern here is that Goodling and her ilk somehow began to conflate God’s work with the president’s. Probably not a lesson she learned in law school. The dream of Regent and its counterparts, like Jerry Falwell’s Liberty University, is to redress perceived wrongs to Christians, to reclaim the public square, and reassert Christian political authority. And while that may have been a part of the Bush/Rove plan, it was, in the end, only a small part. Their real zeal was for earthly power. And Goodling was left holding the earthly bag. > > At the end of the day, Goodling and the other young foot soldiers for God may simply have run afoul of the first rule of politics, codified in Psalm 146: “Put no trust in princes, in mere mortals in whom there is no help.” In other words, the point of the article is just what I said earlier was the only legitimate basis here for criticism: The people weren’t qualified to do the jobs they were given. Of course, just saying that doesn’t make for easy Bush and/or Republican bashing, it requires one to be able to read, think and be capable of understanding nuance, which most of the posters here definitely are not, so I’m not really surprised. I guess that leaves you with the task of providing the proof for the allegations that you made in your last post. I eagerly await. I hope you find some, I really do, because a systematic policy of discrimination would be illegal, but I suspect it’ll wind up like most of the Left’s accusations of conspiracy against Bush and the Republicans; full of sound and fury, signifying nothing. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2007, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-maher-4-13-2006-bush-appoints-lawyers-from-pat-robertsons-law-school/400806/78 "2007-04-23T18:58:36Z")
[QUOTE=Weirddave] Well then I’d say you have a mess of proof to dig up. Nothing here rises to that evidenciary level. We have a Bill Mahr op=ed, another op-ed, you linked to a leftist bolg [/quote] Nonsense. I’ve never linked to a [bolg](http://www.answers.com/topic/list-of-middle-earth-orcs) in my life. I didn’t link to a blog, either. I linked to TPM Muckraker, which is a news site affiliated with a blog. > [@](#): > > and then there is the piece in Slate, which doesn’t say what you probably think it says. Of course it doesn’t say what I think it says. I don’t believe I’ve read it. I had no thoughts about what it might say. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2007, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-maher-4-13-2006-bush-appoints-lawyers-from-pat-robertsons-law-school/400806/79 "2007-04-23T19:09:28Z")
[QUOTE=Polycarp] There was a sarcastic remark that this Administration was safe unless one of its leaders was caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy. And, thanks to that clown from Florida, we may as well scratch the “live boy” clause too. What does it take to outrage you, any fucking way? [/QUOTE] If it will make you feel better, that quote is not from this administration, but from Edwin Edwards, former governor of Louisiana. Much to my surprise, he got convicted while not doing either. So there might be some hope. ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2007, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-maher-4-13-2006-bush-appoints-lawyers-from-pat-robertsons-law-school/400806/80 "2007-04-23T19:15:20Z")
[QUOTE=Weirddave] I’ve read the whole thread and the links, and I’m not sure what I’m supposed to be upset about. AFAICT it all boils down to “OMG! The Bush administration is hiring people who agree with their basic philosophical stance! I don’t believe in that stance, so it’s wrong! Plus they’re likely Christians! We can’t have any Christians in government!” People who went to Regent University may not be the most qualified people in the world (then again they may, a person’s ability is not necessarily measured by his or her schooling), but are the unqualified? If they are, THAT is where the outrage should come from, but this “Woe and gloom, they’re hiring people who went to a Christian University” is beyond me, and the whole “They’re infiltrating the Justice Dept!” subtext is frankly nothing more than conspiracy theory nonsense. If, say, Dennis Kusinich won the presidency, I would expect it to be a banner year for graduates of Bearkley. Thats how it works, how it has worked for over 200 years. Each administration brings in people that it thinks will best help advance their agenda. What exactly is it I’m supposed to be outraged at? [/QUOTE] Qualification has nothing to do with it. Regent’s reputation is that it churns out lawyers to advance the conservative Christian agenda, and it’s a reputation Regent is happy to have. (See [this article](http://www.boston.com/news/education/higher/articles/2007/04/08/scandal_puts_spotlight_on_christian_law_school/?page=1) for more.) It had accreditation problems until 1996, and even then, the quality of its graduates is questionable. Do you really want your government run by people trained to be Christian lawyers, or do you want your government run by competent lawyers who happen to be Christian? For the record, Dennis Kucinich did not attend Berkeley; Wikipedia says he went to Case Western Reserve. Either way, he went to a much better school than Regent. Robin [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-maher-4-13-2006-bush-appoints-lawyers-from-pat-robertsons-law-school/400806.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-maher-4-13-2006-bush-appoints-lawyers-from-pat-robertsons-law-school/400806.md?page=5)