# Bill Maher is either delusional or embarassingly ignorant **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 10, 2005, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-maher-is-either-delusional-or-embarassingly-ignorant/293869 "2005-03-10T17:41:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2005, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-maher-is-either-delusional-or-embarassingly-ignorant/293869/1 "2005-03-10T17:41:06Z")
Now, I like Bill Maher’s show on HBO for the humor. The main flaw of the show is that sometimes it doesn’t know where it wants to go – serious commentary or humor. I think it’s usually a good mix, although sometimes they waste some fairly high profile guests. As for Maher himself, I probably agree more than I disagree with many of his positions…but usually when I disagree I can understand his viewpoint. On his latest show, however…well…just read it for yourself. I tried to provide as much text as possible to show him in the ‘best light’ but I don’t think there’s any defending this. The transcript can be checked [here](http://www.safesearching.com/billmaher/print/t_hbo_realtime_030405.htm). > [@](#): > > MAHER: All right, I want to ask about food here, because I’ve been anxious to get you back on this panel, because you were on our satellite, and like Tommy Thompson, who was here a couple of weeks ago, you are, I think, what we would say – I’ll mean this as an insult – part of the medical establishment. > > HEALY: Oh, yes. And proud of it. > > MAHER: But as you know, I don’t believe in the medical establishment. I think there is an “axis of evil” in this country with our health. The food industry—[applause]—the food industry, the insurance industry and the pharmaceutical industry—[applause] [cheers]—work together and – true or false: it is a diet of chemicals, preservatives, hormones, antibiotics, preservatives, dead nutrients, that is mainly responsible for the fact that this country has such a staggering health care bill. True or false? [applause] > > FOLEY: False. > > MAHER: False, really? > > HEALY: Yes. > > FOLEY: That combined with the most inefficient health care system on the face of earth. [applause] > > MAHER: But why do we need so much health care if we weren’t sick? And why are we sick? What is the main thing we do to ourselves? Eat. > > RENO: One of the main things we do to ourselves is we do not take care of our children when they come into this world by providing proper vaccinations, proper preventative medical care—[applause] [cheers]—proper strong, supportive health care for infants and children in this country. > > MAHER: **I don’t believe in vaccination either.** > > HEALY: Oh, dear. > > MAHER: **That’s – what? That’s another theory that I think is flawed. And that we go by the Louis Pasteur theory even though Louis Pasteur renounced it on his own death bed and said, “Beauchamps was right; it’s not the invading germs, it’s the terrain. It’s not the mosquitoes, it’s the swamp that they’re breeding in.” [applause]** > > RENO: What are you going to do about smallpox? > > MAHER: **What am I going to do about smallpox? Not go to the chicken farm. [laughter]** > > FOLEY: You’ve got to say, the polio vaccine turned out well. [applause] You know— > > HEALY: You know, I think there – I mean, I think it’s great theater to, when you’re well, to say, oh, all those sick people, you know, let’s just dismiss them. But, you know, when you’re sick, there’s nothing better than having a good medical establishment. > > MAHER: But why do they get sick? Do you think it’s normal that people need this amount of drugs? > > HEALY: Well, I think that people get sick and we don’t entirely know why they get sick. And the older they get, the sicker they get. Every ten years that you add onto your life, you have a higher chance of getting sick. And you get atherosclerosis, you get cancer. I mean, the notion— > > MAHER: Why? > > HEALY: --that somehow if you get sick, it’s your fault. > > MAHER: [overlapping] It’s the— > > HEALY: It’s the wrong attitude. It’s not your fault. You don’t have a guilt trip because you get sick. People get sick. You know, they say all around the world people think that death is inevitable. > > MAHER: [overlapping] You’re in denial. > > HEALY: In the United States of America, we think it’s an option! I mean, death is not an option! [applause] > > MAHER: You’re in denial of, I think, a key fact, which is— > > HEALY: Okay. > > MAHER: --there is – it is the – people get sick because of an aggregate toxicity—[applause]—because their body has so much poison in it from the air, the water – yes, much of it is not our fault and we can’t control it, but a lot of it we can. And even the food people think is good for them is bad. And I’m not setting myself as a paradigm. I do cruddy things to my body, too, and I enjoy them. [laughter] [applause] [cheers] > > But when I do them, I’m not in denial. I’m not eating fat-free cheese and saying, “You know what? I’m healthy for eating this.” I’m saying, “Oh, yeah, this is chemical goop and it’s killing me.” [laughter] > > HEALY: Well, you know – and right now, I think that you would be the greatest spokesman for anti-smoking. I mean, really, the most dangerous— > > MAHER: Well, of course, smoking— > > HEALY: --the most dangerous thing people do to themselves is they smoke cigarettes. > > MAHER: Yes. > > HEALY: It’s toxic to their lungs. It causes, you know, all sorts of cancers. It causes lung disease, heart disease. > > MAHER: Yes, but we know that. No one is arguing that smoking— > > HEALY: But why are 25% of Americans still smoking? > > MAHER: Well, because— > > HEALY: Because of all this disease— > > MAHER: Yes. > > FOLEY: And it still looks cool. [laughter] > > HEALY: And it’s still in those movies. [voices overlap] > > FOLEY: Yeah, but – no – you know, and as much money as we spend on helping people, you know, stay alive, you know, the tobacco industry spends more than that on convincing people they should smoke. > > HEALY: But it’s still a person’s responsibility. > > MAHER: Yes. > > HEALY: We keep blaming the company. We keep blaming the advertising. Someone has to decide their going to go and spend an abominable amount of money to buy a pack of weeds that’ll kill them, you know, when they put it in their— > > FOLEY: Yeah. > > MAHER: But you just said we shouldn’t blame ourselves! > > FOLEY: But they’re addicting. > > HEALY: We should blame our behaviors. I mean, we should have healthy behavior. We should be responsible for our behaviors. > > MAHER: Then we agree. All right. [applause] > > HEALY: We agree. Oh, wonderful. Finally. > > FOLEY: But we just – but earlier we discussed teenagers, their minds not being fully developed enough to keep their intellect and their emotions in synch. > > HEALY: That’s why parents have to say, “No, you may not smoke, kids. And we’re not going to give you money to…” > > MAHER: Don’t smoke, kids! It turns your mind to plastic! [laughter] I bolded the most shocklingly stupid things he said. As I watched it was like a smack to the head. At first I thought he was trying to be funny with the “I don’t believe in vaccinations either!” line but no, he just kept going. The panel seemed stunned too, they didn’t really offer much of what I would consider a solid rejoinder. Directly after this he went to new rules, and I didn’t enjoy them very much because I was still amazed at his stupidity. As a man who likes to present himself as fairly well educated and intelligent he sure is a fucking nitwit when it comes to basic medicine. I mean, what’s the problem? It’s not a complicated concept, I got it when I was 10. Didn’t he ever get shots? A pamphlet and maybe a good view through a microscope could clear it all up. That’s not the first time he’s said something dumb about medicine in general, but this was just many orders of magnitude higher on the ignorance scale. He either a) studied the facts and rejected them or b) just decided that since they’re linked to those evil pharmaceutical companies then they must be bunk. I’m not sure which one is worse. As an aside, Ward Churchill was a guest on his show on that episode as well. He came off like a fucking asshole…especially when that 9/11 guy came on (I forget if he survived or if his family died in it; or both, maybe). More pathetic than anything, since Bill tried his hardest to help him NOT seem like the crazy Anti-American lunatic the media tried to paint him as. But you know what? I think he deserved all the hate he received. I agreed with Bill on that one, he went WAY overboard. ---
**Author:** ![Metacom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@Metacom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metacom)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2005, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-maher-is-either-delusional-or-embarassingly-ignorant/293869/2 "2005-03-10T17:48:34Z")
He can be amusing, but he’s also a total nutter when it comes to issues like this. I didn’t catch this particular interview, but I’ve heard him mentions toxins and such before. He also has also pro “animal rights,” IIRC. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2005, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-maher-is-either-delusional-or-embarassingly-ignorant/293869/3 "2005-03-10T17:54:41Z")
> [@Metacom](#): > > He can be amusing, but he’s also a total nutter when it comes to issues like this. I didn’t catch this particular interview, but I’ve heard him mentions toxins and such before. He also has also pro “animal rights,” IIRC. Yep. He’s a member of PETA, or at least, has appeared in PETA advertisments. ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2005, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-maher-is-either-delusional-or-embarassingly-ignorant/293869/4 "2005-03-10T17:56:12Z")
I saw that too. At first, I thought he didn’t believe in vaccines because of some “survival of the fittest” type of thing. When he went on to explain that he doesn’t think they work, I realized he’s probably an idiot. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2005, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-maher-is-either-delusional-or-embarassingly-ignorant/293869/5 "2005-03-10T18:06:58Z")
BOW-WOW-WOW! Hello, I am a talking head in the Media! BOW-WOW-WOW! I have no medical or scientific credentials whatsoever! BOW-WOW-WOW! But _everything_ I say is true! BOW-WOW-WOW! Obey! BOW-WOW-WOW! Adhere to my doctrines/whimsical notions faithfully! BOW-WOW-WOW! When the neighbor’s dog barks, learn to ignore it. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Podkayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Podkayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Podkayne)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2005, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-maher-is-either-delusional-or-embarassingly-ignorant/293869/6 "2005-03-10T18:13:54Z")
“And that we go by the Louis Pasteur theory even though Louis Pasteur renounced it on his own death bed . . .” God, I hate that argument. The YEC’s tell about a supposed recantation by Darwin, too. And they may or may not be true–but it’s irrelevant. Scientifically a recandation by the originator of a theory means fuck-all unless there’s some proof behind it! It’s not like the originator of the theory has Ultimate Veto Power over his idea, regardless of what every other scientist in the world thinks! If you put a theory out there, and it gets a lot of experimental or observational support, and then you say, “Nope, wait, wait a minute, I take it back! It’s not true! I don’t believe it any more!” well, nobody’s going to give a fuck unless you can demonstrate _why_ your hypothesis is wrong. We don’t believe in germ theory because Louis Pasteur was always right, damn it! We believe it because of all the evidence in favor of it! If Pasteur had proven his theory wrong with an observation or an experiment, then, guess what? The theory would be rejected, because there would be _proof_ that it’s wrong! But Pasteur just (supposedly) saying so without any proof? That means _exactly_ as much as any other scientist just saying it’s so without any proof: **bumpkiss!** I don’t know exactly why this pisses me off so much, but God. Damn. It. (I’m glad it’s the Pit.) ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2005, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-maher-is-either-delusional-or-embarassingly-ignorant/293869/7 "2005-03-10T18:21:26Z")
Can’t it be both? ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2005, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-maher-is-either-delusional-or-embarassingly-ignorant/293869/8 "2005-03-10T18:25:33Z")
Wow, I didn’t realize he was a member of PETA…he doesn’t seem the type, to be honest. **Bosda Di’Chi of Tricor:** The funny thing is that some of the members of his panel did have credentials but didn’t seem to use them. Maybe they wanted to be nice and humor him. **Podkayne:** It’s OK, that line of ignorant “thinking” makes me mad too. I thought of saying something about it but, well, I doubt many people here need the help of seeing why that’s just silly. ---
**Author:** ![Good\_Egg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/96bed5/32.png) [@Good\_Egg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Good_Egg)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2005, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-maher-is-either-delusional-or-embarassingly-ignorant/293869/9 "2005-03-10T18:36:09Z")
Its not that far out. Everyone, even strangers who’ve told me, say they suddenly got ill after vaccinations(flu). Odd. ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2005, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-maher-is-either-delusional-or-embarassingly-ignorant/293869/10 "2005-03-10T18:49:35Z")
> [@Podkayne](#): > > “And that we go by the Louis Pasteur theory even though Louis Pasteur renounced it on his own death bed . . .” > > God, I hate that argument. The YEC’s tell about a supposed recantation by Darwin, too. And they may or may not be true–but it’s irrelevant.) True that it’s irrelevant. Solely in the interest of completing the factual record, in Darwin’s case it is [not true](http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/hope.html), something which even [some creationist sites acknowledge](http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v18/i1/darwin_recant.asp). ---
**Author:** ![Trunk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/87869e/32.png) [@Trunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trunk)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2005, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-maher-is-either-delusional-or-embarassingly-ignorant/293869/11 "2005-03-10T18:51:07Z")
Maher has a strong opinion on health care, that I think has some gooe elements, and some wacko elements. Try not to (cliche coming) throw the baby out with the bath water. He’s talked before about how he doesn’t like how anti-sceptically we treat children, how over-medication has led to resistant strains of bacteria, how the chemicals in our daily lives have cumulatively have negative effects on us, and how no one really cares because a lot of people make a lot of money off it. He’s probably not right to think that there’s a conscious unholy alliance, and he gets a little extreme when he gets going on vaccinations. Because its not just vaccinations with him, but also ritalin, and prozac, the marketing of drugs to children. Some of us think these are serious issues, and it seems like the overwhelming majority just accepts it as status quo: something’s not quite right? drug it. Personally, I think our entire health care attitude is totally out of whack, and I’d like to see many more dissenting opinions like his being heard. It’s unfortunate that HE is about the only one out there who gets heard on the issue. I don’t think he has really forged his opinions coherently on the subject yet. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2005, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-maher-is-either-delusional-or-embarassingly-ignorant/293869/12 "2005-03-10T19:07:54Z")
> [@Good Egg](#): > > Its not that far out. Everyone, even strangers who’ve told me, say they suddenly got ill after vaccinations(flu). Odd. The idea is to boost immunity. The flu vaccine is giving you dead flu viruses that your immune system is supposed to “learn” how to fight off, and that presumably puts your system into overdrive to fight the nasty invaders. So some people get low fevers or other minor symptoms that last a few days. But that’s plenty different from actually getting the flu, which can keep you sick for weeks. I’d take my chances with the vaccine. (Unless you’re allergic to eggs; I think you’re not supposed to get the flu vaccine in that case.) In short: Maher loves to make pronunciations that are “shocking” and “anti-establishment.” He can be right, but he can also be a tool. Regarding vaccines? Tool city. ---
**Author:** ![Dag\_Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@Dag\_Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dag_Otto)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2005, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-maher-is-either-delusional-or-embarassingly-ignorant/293869/13 "2005-03-10T20:05:12Z")
> [@Trunk](#): > > Because its not just vaccinations with him, but also ritalin, and prozac, the marketing of drugs to children. Some of us think these are serious issues, and it seems like the overwhelming majority just accepts it as status quo: something’s not quite right? drug it. I think the vaccination bit was getting sort of off topic of his original point - that the food industry, the insurance industry and the pharmaceutical industry don’t value the country’s health more than their bottom line. Plenty of fats and salt in the food, and plenty of cholesterol and high blood pressure medications to counter the effects of that food. And you don’t have to think that it’s a conspiracy among these industries to produce these results, but just that it’s the uncoordinated result of several bad choices. Rather than just treating the malady with drugs, someone ought to be able to say “you don’t have to depends on these drugs, just stop eating the crap you have been eating for so long”. At that point though, that person is competing against the advertising budgets of the industries and it’s easy to see why Maher is pissed at them. ---
**Author:** ![shelbo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3d9bf3/32.png) [@shelbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shelbo)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2005, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-maher-is-either-delusional-or-embarassingly-ignorant/293869/14 "2005-03-10T20:13:37Z")
Bill Maher is a real jerk in real life. To him I say, “Fuck off, Fucker!” 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Elza\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Elza\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elza_B)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2005, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-maher-is-either-delusional-or-embarassingly-ignorant/293869/15 "2005-03-10T20:49:30Z")
> [@shelbo](#): > > Bill Maher is a real jerk in real life. > To him I say, “Fuck off, Fucker!” > > 😉 :chants: **Anaamika** ’s got a boyfriend, **Anaamika** ’s got a boyfriend. :/chants: As far as Bill Maher, I see his point on a lot of these issues, but his rabidness about them obviously turns people off. I think he’s a smart guy with some good ideas, but he’s venturing on Ann Coulter-like spewing, and coming across as a wacko. E. ---
**Author:** ![JeffB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jeffb/32/188_2.png) [@JeffB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JeffB)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2005, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-maher-is-either-delusional-or-embarassingly-ignorant/293869/16 "2005-03-10T21:21:08Z")
> [@Podkayne](#): > > “And that we go by the Louis Pasteur theory even though Louis Pasteur renounced it on his own death bed . . .” > > God, I hate that argument. The YEC’s tell about a supposed recantation by Darwin, too. And they may or may not be true–but it’s irrelevant. Scientifically a recandation by the originator of a theory means fuck-all unless there’s some proof behind it! It’s not like the originator of the theory has Ultimate Veto Power over his idea, regardless of what every other scientist in the world thinks! I thinks it’s perfectly valid, which is why I believe that the earth is the center of the universe and everything revolves around us. After all, Galileo recanted. ---
**Author:** ![St.Urho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8e7dd6/32.png) [@St.Urho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/St.Urho)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2005, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-maher-is-either-delusional-or-embarassingly-ignorant/293869/17 "2005-03-10T22:40:39Z")
> [@Good Egg](#): > > Its not that far out. Everyone, even strangers who’ve told me, say they suddenly got ill after vaccinations(flu). Odd. I didn’t get sick at all after my flu vaccine (FluMist). What do I win? ---
**Author:** ![Ca3799](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9f8e36/32.png) [@Ca3799](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ca3799)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2005, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-maher-is-either-delusional-or-embarassingly-ignorant/293869/18 "2005-03-10T22:42:33Z")
I don’t see Maher’s show, but recently went a round with a radio talk show guy (Tom Martino) over this very same topic. This guy is a Consumer Advocate and runs a helpful regional radio show, but I swear, when it comes to medical topics, he just loses all his senses. He’s been hawking the “natural diet” and some other crap on his show. I called in to discuss “some signs of medical quackery” and he wound up getting so upset he hung up on me on the air. It was stupid - I was having to talk faster and louder to get my points in, while he was yelling “Are you saying nutrition isn’t important!!??” No, Tom, that’s not what I’m saying. Nutrition is important, but it’s not the whole picture when it comes to health and disease. Even more recently, I went toe to toe with a nurse on a nursing board I visit who apparantly works in an “alternative setting” treating autism patients and who claims autism is caused by vaccines. She claimed they were showing remarkable cure rates with EDTA (chelation) and diet therapy. I don’t expect that kind of misinformation from nurses and I don’t think that particular person is even a nurse, but is perhaps a shill drumming up business for her clinic. I called her on her claims, but she ran away. Good. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2005, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-maher-is-either-delusional-or-embarassingly-ignorant/293869/19 "2005-03-10T22:51:27Z")
“Mr. Maher, are you a doctor?” “No, but I did do a television show on HBO last night.” Seriously. We probably do over-medicate here, but on these topics the guy knows shit about fuck. Pick any two or three random sentences and it becomes obvious he’s being controversial just because. Did he always do that? He seemed smarter when I watched Politically Incorrect. He’d do that type of stuff sometimes, but I get the sense he’s doing it more now. Why do people not understand that opinions don’t have any fucking intrinsic value or correctness? ---
**Author:** ![Digital\_Stimulus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Digital\_Stimulus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Digital_Stimulus)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2005, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-maher-is-either-delusional-or-embarassingly-ignorant/293869/20 "2005-03-10T23:19:32Z")
From the World Health Organization (I hope that’s an adequate cite): [Six common misconceptions about immunizations](http://www.who.int/immunization_safety/aefi/immunization_misconceptions/en/) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-maher-is-either-delusional-or-embarassingly-ignorant/293869.md?page=2)