# Bill Maher: STFU about food, health, and ESPECIALLY vaccines! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2009, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-maher-stfu-about-food-health-and-especially-vaccines/513274 "2009-10-10T04:01:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2009, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-maher-stfu-about-food-health-and-especially-vaccines/513274/41 "2009-10-10T22:34:30Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > There are 3 guests every week. I said a couple liberals. A couple is 2. You said “..many repubs and right wingers stating their views among a couple liberals”. There is typically 1 right winger. One is not “many”. ---
**Author:** ![TWDuke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@TWDuke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TWDuke)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2009, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-maher-stfu-about-food-health-and-especially-vaccines/513274/42 "2009-10-10T22:35:19Z")
> [@2ply](#): > > I haven’t considered getting the vaccine since there was that shortage in 2004 and every year they run out of vaccines in my area. I’m in my twenties and hopefully will have another twenty years of pretty kickass health so would rather the limited supply of vaccines go to those with more vulnerable immune systems. [The CDC](http://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/vaccination/vaccine_keyfacts.htm)’s primary target age group for H1N1 vaccination is 6 months through 24 years. The [World Health Organization](http://www.who.int/csr/disease/swineflu/frequently_asked_questions/about_disease/en/index.html) says this flu spreads particularly fast among young people (10 to 45). ---
**Author:** ![cerberus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/71e660/32.png) [@cerberus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cerberus)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2009, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-maher-stfu-about-food-health-and-especially-vaccines/513274/43 "2009-10-10T22:51:58Z")
> [@](#): > > I haven’t considered getting the vaccine since there was that shortage in 2004 and every year they run out of vaccines in my area. I’m in my twenties and hopefully will have another twenty years of pretty kickass health so would rather the limited supply of vaccines go to those with more vulnerable immune systems. Nothing to do with conspiracy theories. Vaccines work by inducing an immune response. So the way that people with compromised immune systems are protected is by herd immunity, facilitated by vaccinated healthy people. While younger, healthier people may well better endure a case of influenza, they may also be able to infect more people, since they can work better and longer with the flu (and hence may expose more people to their flu). H1N1 is causing serious complications in young, pregnant women and in a subgroup of children - two groups not normally harmed by the usual varieties of influenza. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2009, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-maher-stfu-about-food-health-and-especially-vaccines/513274/44 "2009-10-10T23:11:26Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > You said “..many repubs and right wingers stating their views among a couple liberals”. There is typically 1 right winger. One is not “many”. He opened with a conservative. Then 1 out of 2 on the panel. That is 2 -2. I suppose it is not easy to get righties on the show. He did have an all conservative one last year. ---
**Author:** ![SweetLucy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bcef8e/32.png) [@SweetLucy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SweetLucy)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2009, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-maher-stfu-about-food-health-and-especially-vaccines/513274/45 "2009-10-10T23:19:30Z")
I haven’t watched Bill Maher much. At the risk of hijacking this thread, however…on the subject of vaccines, my blood boils when I hear about health care workers who refuse to get the H1N1 vaccine because it violates their “rights.” Jerks! Since when do you have a “right” to infect sick, vulnerable people in your care??? ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2009, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-maher-stfu-about-food-health-and-especially-vaccines/513274/46 "2009-10-10T23:48:01Z")
> [@phouka](#): > > Last night, I completely tore apart a link a friend posted on Facebook. I wonder if she was inspired by Maher to post it. Can I blame him? Because I really like the friend. > > [Do NOT Let Your Child Get Flu Vaccine.](http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2009/10/06/Why-You-Should-NOT-Vaccinate-Your-Children-Against-the-Flu-This-Season.aspx) With the extra tin-foil-hattery “This year it is more important that you protect your children and loved ones from the flu vaccines than influenza itself.” > > That’s right, folks, the flu vaccine is more likely to injure or kill your child than the flu! > > I went into full SDMB mode and posted the following as a comment: > > One other friend posted a comment thanking me for the additional information. I wonder, though, if the original friend will ever speak to me again. ☹ Good for you and screw your friend. Mercola is notorious idiot. His entire beliefs about vaccines can be summarized as “vaccines are bad for you because the CDC and the pharm companies want to sell you stuff. Here. Buy MY stuff instead.” Because vaccines are bad for you. Chrorella and raw honey? The garbage you can buy from ME? Just the ticket I tell you. I like the response you gave. Here’s a good article on the whole Amish Don’t Vaccinate and Don’t Have Autism bullshit if you need another link in the future: > **[Guess what? The Amish vaccinate!](http://combatingautismfromwithin.blogspot.com/2008/01/guess-what-amish-vaccinate.html)** > > And they have autism. In the spring of 2005, UPI reporter Dan Olmsted wrote that autism is rare among the Amish of Lancaster County, Pennsy... > [@](#): > > “The idea that the Amish do not vaccinate their children is untrue,” says Dr. Kevin Strauss, MD, a pediatrician at the CSC. “We run a weekly vaccination clinic and it’s very busy.” He says Amish vaccinations rates are lower than the general population’s, but younger Amish are more likely to be vaccinated than older generations. > > Strauss also sees plenty of Amish children showing symptoms of autism. “Autism isn’t a diagnosis - it’s a description of behavior. We see autistic behaviors along with seizure disorders or mental retardation or a genetic disorder, where the autism is part of a more complicated clinical spectrum.” Fragile X syndrome and Retts is also common among the clinic’s patients. > > Strauss, along with Dr. D. Holmes Morton, MD, authored a study published in the New England Journal of Medicine which described a mysterious seizure disorder that resulted in mental retardation and autistic behavior in nine Amish children. The study was publish one year after Olmsted’s mythic voyage, so it would seem a story correction would be in order." ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2009, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-maher-stfu-about-food-health-and-especially-vaccines/513274/47 "2009-10-11T00:31:18Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > So does Carrot Top. Carrot Top does not do political humor. Compare to Lewis Black or the unfunny Dennis Miller. ---
**Author:** ![wierdaaron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/eada6e/32.png) [@wierdaaron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wierdaaron)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2009, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-maher-stfu-about-food-health-and-especially-vaccines/513274/48 "2009-10-11T02:04:21Z")
My sister got her 3 year old daughter a flu shot today. Should I start researching how to care for autistic children now so it wont catch me by surprise? ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2009, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-maher-stfu-about-food-health-and-especially-vaccines/513274/49 "2009-10-11T04:21:11Z")
Maher may be the left’s equivalent of O’Rielly or whomever, but his \*Be More Cynical \*standup routine is fucking funny. Watch it on you tube and tell me it isn’t. You can’t. It has some great moments. Sometimes people go insane, too, as they age. It happens. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2009, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-maher-stfu-about-food-health-and-especially-vaccines/513274/50 "2009-10-11T05:55:28Z")
Speaking of insanity - antivaxers are not content with avoiding immunization and spreadng lies about vaccines. Some want to prevent the rest of us from having access to them. A group is now suing to stop the release of the H1N1 vaccine, on the grounds that there’s been insufficient testing. Here are [some details](http://www.naturalnews.com/027205_vaccines_swine_flu_the_FDA.html) from an alt med website that supports these idiots. Never mind that vaccine producers and infectious disease specialists at multiple academic medical centers have conducted tests of the vaccine with good results. A variety of patient groups including children, asthmatics and pregnant women have been studied. Some of these results have already [been published](http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/NEJMoa0907413), showing good efficacy of the H1N1 vaccine with no deaths or serious reactions attributed to the vaccine. But that hasn’t stopped the antivax loons. What their scare tactics seem to be focusing on now are adjuvants - those compounds added to vaccines to boost your immune response and make the vaccines more effective at lower antigen dosages. People behind the current effort to stop the vaccine include a “health freedom”\* attorney and Gary Null, an alt med advocate who in recent years has been notorious for [HIV/AIDS denialism](http://dir.salon.com/story/books/feature/2002/05/21/null/index.html). Now _there’s_ an infectious disease expert to whom we should be paying attention. :rolleyes: It’s highly unlikely these people will succeed in halting vaccine distribution. Isn’t it amazing, though, that they’re so willing to put us all at risk from a flu epidemic. \*Usually, when you hear someone described as a “health freedom” advocate, it means they want dietary supplement companies and fringe health providers given unlimited freedom to hawk their wares without any government oversight. Now, it seems that the term’s definition is being expanded to include those who want to ensure “health freedom” by denying the rest of us access to proper care. ---
**Author:** ![Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b3f665/32.png) [@Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sophistry_and_Illusion)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2009, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-maher-stfu-about-food-health-and-especially-vaccines/513274/51 "2009-10-11T06:54:57Z")
> [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](#): > > Influenza vaccines induce type-specific immunity of short duration; necessarily, then, the herd immunity benefits associated with such vaccination programs are minimal. Not to mention that many people will still fall ill (and spread disease) from any of the non-influenza viruses that also thrive during flu season. If, indeed, many people take false comfort from the flu vaccine and neglect other prophylactic measures, flu vaccines could have a negative public health effect. Well, one widely-cited study in the New England Journal of Medicine shows that in Japan, one life (typically of an elderly person) is saved for every 420 children who are given the flu vaccine. [Here is the link to the abstract](http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/abstract/344/12/889)(although it might not be accessible to people not reading from a university). > [@NEJM](#): > > With the initiation of the vaccination program for schoolchildren in Japan, excess mortality rates dropped from values three to four times those in the United States to values similar to those in the United States. The vaccination of Japanese children prevented about 37,000 to 49,000 deaths per year, or about 1 death for every 420 children vaccinated. As the vaccination of schoolchildren was discontinued, the excess mortality rates in Japan increased. The flu vaccine can save lives. ---
**Author:** ![Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2009, 7:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-maher-stfu-about-food-health-and-especially-vaccines/513274/52 "2009-10-11T07:23:29Z")
> [@Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](#): > > Well, one widely-cited study in the New England Journal of Medicine shows that in Japan, one life (typically of an elderly person) is saved for every 420 children who are given the flu vaccine. [Here is the link to the abstract](http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/abstract/344/12/889)(although it might not be accessible to people not reading from a university). > > The flu vaccine can save lives. And this [more recent study in _Acta Paediatrica_](http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/119918951/abstract) shows that the results may be overstated. By the way, I was aware of both studies, preferring to find evidence on both sides. I rather suspect you ran a google search or a PubMed search and cherry-picked the first cite that supported your side. ---
**Author:** ![Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2009, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-maher-stfu-about-food-health-and-especially-vaccines/513274/53 "2009-10-11T07:31:26Z")
Moreover, at the typical rates of flu vaccination (the figures I recall having seen are in the realm of 25-40%), _herd immunity is not implicated_. People seem to think HI sets in with the first vaccine adminstered; it does not. Flu vaccines are not taken in high enough proportions for herd immunity to result (which typically is in the 80-90% range). So, two cheers for that vaunted SDMB commitment to science, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b3f665/32.png) [@Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sophistry_and_Illusion)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2009, 8:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-maher-stfu-about-food-health-and-especially-vaccines/513274/54 "2009-10-11T08:04:09Z")
> [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](#): > > I rather suspect you ran a google search or a PubMed search and cherry-picked the first cite that supported your side. You suspect wrong. It’s a widely-cited study I’ve been aware of for a long time. But thanks all the same for impugning my intellectual integrity. ---
**Author:** ![Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b3f665/32.png) [@Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sophistry_and_Illusion)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2009, 8:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-maher-stfu-about-food-health-and-especially-vaccines/513274/55 "2009-10-11T08:11:56Z")
> [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](#): > > And this [more recent study in _Acta Paediatrica_](http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/119918951/abstract) shows that the results may be overstated. Having read the article (which apparently you didn’t), the author doesn’t mention the Japan study or challenge its results. You make a good point about herd immunity, though. Japan achieved its results through a regime of mandatory vaccination. Saved a lot of lives. ---
**Author:** ![Icerigger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icerigger/32/432_2.png) [@Icerigger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icerigger)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2009, 8:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-maher-stfu-about-food-health-and-especially-vaccines/513274/56 "2009-10-11T08:34:43Z")
Sadly the anti-vaccination, anti Western medicine (Germ Theory) is a huge movement very similar to creationism and gaining a lot of traction. The “alternative” medicine advocates, chiropractic, the rid your body of Toxins crap, magnets all feed into this nonsence and it is killing people. Some are fighting back like **Dr Steven Novella** who hosts the popular **Skeptics Guide to the Universe** podcast. > **[NeuroLogica Blog - Your Daily Fix of Neuroscience, Skepticism, and Critical...](https://theness.com/neurologicablog/)** > > Your Daily Fix of Neuroscience, Skepticism, and Critical Thinking ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2009, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-maher-stfu-about-food-health-and-especially-vaccines/513274/57 "2009-10-11T14:03:13Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > Maher may be the left’s equivalent of O’Rielly or whomever, but his \*Be More Cynical \*standup routine is fucking funny. Watch it on you tube and tell me it isn’t. You can’t. It has some great moments. Sometimes people go insane, too, as they age. It happens. What I hate about him is he is just too smarmy and smugg. He can make some smart ass comment that at first glance is very funny. And if just about any other comedian did it, it would stay funny and that would be the end of it. But he seems to think (or at least comes off this way) that this funny he just made both makes him some sort of mental giant who is RIGHT and the person he is making fun of some mentally retarded fool who can do no right regarding anything. Making a funny is way down on the list of impressive debate and discussion tools IMO. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2009, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-maher-stfu-about-food-health-and-especially-vaccines/513274/58 "2009-10-11T17:16:16Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > What I hate about him is he is just too smarmy and smugg. > > He can make some smart ass comment that at first glance is very funny. And if just about any other comedian did it, it would stay funny and that would be the end of it. > > But he seems to think (or at least comes off this way) that this funny he just made both makes him some sort of mental giant who is RIGHT and the person he is making fun of some mentally retarded fool who can do no right regarding anything. > > Making a funny is way down on the list of impressive debate and discussion tools IMO. I think it’s just too easy to become that way when you have your own show. It starts to become more about you than about the issues. I wouldn’t go so far as to compare him to O’Reilly (as \*\*FGIE \*\*did), but he does make me cringe sometimes with his smugness-- especially when he’s being smug about something that his has wrong. Overall, though, I enjoy his show even if he gives voice to too many clueless celebrities. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2009, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-maher-stfu-about-food-health-and-especially-vaccines/513274/59 "2009-10-12T05:15:21Z")
One of the good things about being a liberal is that you don’t worry too much about what will happen when somebody who speaks for you goes off the deep end. Conservative commentator decides to run with crazy conspiracy theory about the President being a secret Kenyan? Hordes of other right wingers decide it must be true. Liberal commentator decides to run with crazy conspiracy theory about the President secretly planning 9/11? About sixty left wingers decide it must be true; the rest of us shrug and talk about what a shame it was that Commentator X went crazy. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2009, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-maher-stfu-about-food-health-and-especially-vaccines/513274/60 "2009-10-12T13:07:03Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I think it’s just too easy to become that way when **you have your own show**. It starts to become more about you than about the issues. I wouldn’t go so far as to compare him to O’Reilly (as \*\*FGIE \*\*did), but he does make me cringe sometimes with his smugness-- especially when he’s being smug about something that his has wrong. > > . That might be part of it. I just recalled Dennis Miller has the same sort of stick, the smart ass comments that usually involves a gotcha/hypocritical angle. But he doesnt come off nearly as smug and smarmy. I think its because he doesnt think he made some major philosophical breakthrough in doing so. And with Maher you can often almost feel the intense personal hate and contempt for the person he is making fun of. With Dennis, its more like “ahhh those crazy, lovable duffusses”. Just my impressions mind you. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-maher-stfu-about-food-health-and-especially-vaccines/513274.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-maher-stfu-about-food-health-and-especially-vaccines/513274.md?page=4)