# Bill Maher stirs controversy with Tim Tebow tweet **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 28, 2011, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-maher-stirs-controversy-with-tim-tebow-tweet/607655 "2011-12-28T19:28:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2012, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-maher-stirs-controversy-with-tim-tebow-tweet/607655/301 "2012-01-01T13:34:19Z")
> [@JThunder](#): > > Since we don’t know that Tebow is praying for the other team to lose, I don’t think that’s particularly relevant to this discussion. I would think that he was praying for the other to lose ,if he is praying to win, or thanking God that they won and the other’s lost! I really don’t think a supreme being cares if a team wins or loses,if such a being would be partial over some little thing like a game,why doesn’t it seem to care about people who are in desparate need of help. It would seem this Supreme being is an unfair being, not a loving ,caring Father! ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2012, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-maher-stirs-controversy-with-tim-tebow-tweet/607655/302 "2012-01-01T13:39:34Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > No, that’s what makes it public, not what makes it excessive. > > Regards, > Shodan Do you recall Jesus’s attitude toward the Pharisees who made public display of their religion? He held them in contempt. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2012, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-maher-stirs-controversy-with-tim-tebow-tweet/607655/303 "2012-01-01T15:39:11Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > You claimed it was “excessive”, he agreed with you, you are both wrong. Yes, it’s true I observed that it is “excessive” and he agreed with me. I was just pointing out that your post literally just made the point that it was public, which agreed with both of us. So, on to the point: It exceeds what 98% of other sports figures and 99% of other humans in general do, so it seems pretty logical to categorize it as “excessive”. Do you have an argument you can make that would support it not being “excessive”? > [@](#): > > What do you propose to do if you choose not to tolerate it - lynch him? Whine about it like Maher did? Why do I have to propose how anyone responds? I just don’t think it’s “intolerant” to make jokes about it, I think it’s “funny”. > [@](#): > > This appears to be related to an earlier post, where it was alleged that there was no substantive difference between public prayer, and rape or dog fighting. It was ridiculous then, and is equally ridiculous now. > No, there isn’t any issue. > > Regards, > Shodan What? What are you talking about? “rape or dog fighting”? Is this a serious post or is this some sort of joke? This is the exchange and I’m having a hard time following the final point: **John Mace** : It’s intolerant **RaftPeople** : Disagree, it’s beyond the norms so it’s ok to make jokes **Shodan** : It’s not like “rape or dog fighting” We’re talking about jokes and your talking about “rape or dog fighting”? ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2012, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-maher-stirs-controversy-with-tim-tebow-tweet/607655/304 "2012-01-01T15:49:10Z")
I think people are a little unclear about what “tolerate” means. It’s not like anyone has tried to actually \*stop \*Tebow putting on his little shows. Simply noting that his little shows are tacky isn’t exactly persecution. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2012, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-maher-stirs-controversy-with-tim-tebow-tweet/607655/305 "2012-01-01T16:58:44Z")
[QUOTE=RaftPeople] Do you have an argument you can make that would support it not being “excessive”? [/QUOTE] John Mace’s argument suffices - > [@John Mace](#): > > I find it incredible that so many people on this MB are so intolerant that they think Tebow should conform to their ideas of what behavior is acceptable and what is not. Your logic seems to be “most people don’t do it, therefore it’s excessive and Tebow shouldn’t do it.” That doesn’t follow. Most people don’t play professional football either - that is not an argument for Tebow to resign from the team. > [@monavis](#): > > Do you recall Jesus’s attitude toward the Pharisees who made public display of their religion? He held them in contempt. You might want to read the whole thread before you post to it. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2012, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-maher-stirs-controversy-with-tim-tebow-tweet/607655/306 "2012-01-01T17:02:06Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > I think people are a little unclear about what “tolerate” means. I agree. Emphasis added: > [@](#): > > [Tolerate](http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/tolerate) > > 1. to allow the existence, presence, practice, or act of without prohibition or hindrance; permit. > > 2. to endure without repugnance; put up with: ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2012, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-maher-stirs-controversy-with-tim-tebow-tweet/607655/307 "2012-01-01T17:06:39Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I agree. Emphasis added: Is it your take that one cannot use a word without following all possible definitions of that word? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2012, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-maher-stirs-controversy-with-tim-tebow-tweet/607655/308 "2012-01-01T17:08:07Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Is it your take that one cannot use a word without following all possible definitions of that word? It is my take that one may use the word following the #2 definition listed in a dictionary and not be called wrong for doing so. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2012, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-maher-stirs-controversy-with-tim-tebow-tweet/607655/309 "2012-01-01T17:14:13Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > It is my take that one may use the word following the #2 definition listed in a dictionary and not be called wrong for doing so. It is my take that if one chooses to use a secondary or tertiary definition as opposed to the primary, one should say so before hand, just to keep matters clear. I don’t think Maher is intolerant of Tebow’s actions, according to the primary definition of the word. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2012, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-maher-stirs-controversy-with-tim-tebow-tweet/607655/310 "2012-01-01T17:18:47Z")
Well, that’s an interesting opinion. Do you have a cite to back it up? But just so you know, the word I actually used was: > [@](#): > > [Intolerant](http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/intolerant) > > 1. not tolerating or respecting beliefs, opinions, usages, manners, etc., different from one’s own, as in political or religious matters Emphasis added. Now what’s your objection? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2012, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-maher-stirs-controversy-with-tim-tebow-tweet/607655/311 "2012-01-01T17:21:51Z")
Tolerance is highly overrated. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2012, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-maher-stirs-controversy-with-tim-tebow-tweet/607655/312 "2012-01-01T17:22:35Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > It is my take that one may use the word following the #2 definition listed in a dictionary and not be called wrong for doing so. In accordance with [definition 10b](http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/wrong), I hereby declare you a tort. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2012, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-maher-stirs-controversy-with-tim-tebow-tweet/607655/313 "2012-01-01T17:26:48Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > In accordance with [definition 10b](http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/wrong), I hereby declare you a tort. Isn’t that some kind of pie? Mmmm. Pie! And a New Year’s pie, to boot!! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![The\_Niply\_Elder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8e8cbc/32.png) [@The\_Niply\_Elder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Niply_Elder)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2012, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-maher-stirs-controversy-with-tim-tebow-tweet/607655/314 "2012-01-01T18:37:32Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > In accordance with [definition 10b](http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/wrong), I hereby declare you a tort. Threadwinner. Perfectly exemplifies people talking past each other in this trainwreck. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2012, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-maher-stirs-controversy-with-tim-tebow-tweet/607655/315 "2012-01-01T19:57:44Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Your logic seems to be “most people don’t do it, therefore it’s excessive” This is accurate so far. Can you answer these questions? 1. Do you have an argument to support your position that it’s not excessive? 2. If we apply that same argument from #1 to other behaviors, does it still seem to make sense? > [@](#): > > “and Tebow shouldn’t do it.” I summarized my position as follows: “RaftPeople: Disagree, it’s beyond the norms so it’s ok to make jokes” and you are still unable to figure out what my position is? I merely think it’s “funny” to make jokes about his excessive displays and I don’t think it’s intolerant. So what was with the “rape and dog fighting” thing? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2012, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-maher-stirs-controversy-with-tim-tebow-tweet/607655/316 "2012-01-01T20:20:50Z")
> [@RaftPeople](#): > > Can you answer these questions? > > 1. Do you have an argument to support your position that it’s not excessive? > 2. If we apply that same argument from #1 to other behaviors, does it still seem to make sense? 1. I don’t have to have an argument that it is not excessive. You have to supply an argument showing that it is excessive. 2. Yes, it makes a great deal of sense. Tebow isn’t hurting anyone with his prayers. Other NFL players are. Therefore, Maher would better serve the public if he spent whatever hold he has on the public attention ragging on those other players who are doing genuine harm. But Maher does not spend that hold in that way. Because he just another busybody trying to stir up trouble because someone is disagreeing with him in public. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2012, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-maher-stirs-controversy-with-tim-tebow-tweet/607655/317 "2012-01-01T20:37:55Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > 1. Yes, it makes a great deal of sense. Tebow isn’t hurting anyone with his prayers. Other NFL players are. Therefore, Maher would better serve the public if he spent whatever hold he has on the public attention ragging on those other players who are doing genuine harm. > > But Maher does not spend that hold in that way. Because he just another busybody trying to stir up trouble because someone is disagreeing with him in public. What is your position on humor that holds people up to ridicule? Is it always unjustified? Or only sometimes unjustified? Is it always equivalent to “stirring up trouble?” Should it always be limited to those who are “doing genuine harm”? Seems like a lot of rules for those in the humor biz. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2012, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-maher-stirs-controversy-with-tim-tebow-tweet/607655/318 "2012-01-01T20:44:44Z")
I had no idea Bill Maher was a public servant. Well, \*that \*changes everything. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2012, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-maher-stirs-controversy-with-tim-tebow-tweet/607655/319 "2012-01-01T21:17:44Z")
Why don’t you explain the “rape and dog fighting” thing? It’s hard for me to imagine what could be going through your brain that would first prompt that kind of comparison, and then silently refuse to address it. What’s up with that? > [@Shodan](#): > > 1. I don’t have to have an argument that it is not excessive. You have to supply an argument showing that it is excessive. Ok, I’ll humor you. Kurt Warner thinks he should tone it down. SNL did a skit because of it. An opposing player “Tebowed” after a sack Many in this thread think it’s excessive Googling “Time Tebow religious display” I get 8 million hits, but only 322k for same thing for Kurt Warner (meaning it’s excessive enough to generate that much conversation and controversy) etc. More people consider this excessive than most other sports figures in recent memory, therefore it is reasonable to categorize it as excessive when compared to other sports figures behaviors from a social norm perspective. > [@](#): > > 1. Yes, it makes a great deal of sense. Tebow isn’t hurting anyone with his prayers. Other NFL players are. Therefore, Maher would better serve the public if he spent whatever hold he has on the public attention ragging on those other players who are doing genuine harm. My point #2 actually required a response to point #1 first. The “makes sense” part of it refers to using your logic from #1 and applying to other situations to see if it seems consistent. Either way, the point you are challenging is whether it’s ok to make jokes about Tebow’s behavior. I don’t think Tebow is harming anyone either, but that is irrelevant. We’re just talking about jokes here, that’s all. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2012, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-maher-stirs-controversy-with-tim-tebow-tweet/607655/320 "2012-01-01T21:31:32Z")
> [@RaftPeople](#): > > Why don’t you explain the “rape and dog fighting” thing? It’s hard for me to imagine what could be going through your brain that would first prompt that kind of comparison, and then silently refuse to address it. > > What’s up with that? It’s from an earlier post on the same topic. Can you think of an NFL player who is associated with dog fighting? How about one or more who was accused of rape? Or perhaps you could read the links I provided earlier in this thread for examples of other forms of misbehavior that Maher did not single out for his tweets. > [@](#): > > Kurt Warner thinks he should tone it down. > SNL did a skit because of it. > An opposing player “Tebowed” after a sack > Many in this thread think it’s excessive > Googling “Time Tebow religious display” I get 8 million hits, but only 322k for same thing for Kurt Warner (meaning it’s excessive enough to generate that much conversation and controversy) > etc. Comedy shows and Google vomits do not constitute an argument. Regards, Shodan [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-maher-stirs-controversy-with-tim-tebow-tweet/607655.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-maher-stirs-controversy-with-tim-tebow-tweet/607655.md?page=17)