# Bill Maher: "We SHOULD blame China." **URL:** \ **Category:** The Quarantine Zone\ **Tags:** covid-quarantine\ **Created:** [April 11, 2020, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-maher-we-should-blame-china/851550 "2020-04-11T05:15:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2020, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-maher-we-should-blame-china/851550/61 "2020-04-11T21:19:50Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > You are confused about the purpose of the UN. It is not a deliberative legislative body to create world policy. It is a forum that realizes that international coordination and peacemaking is important, and every nation should participate regardless of their own internal policy. > > I’m not really happy that Russia and China have permanent seats on the security council. But the US is also not perfect. > It’s better that we sit at a table and talk things out with other nations present, than sit in our respective nuclear bunkers and try to guess what the other party is thinking. > > If your idea of a stable world order is a hegemony of a US-led military/democratic coalition, maybe you should stop supporting a party that wants to tear this down to see what happens when every country goes it alone. That’s what I am talking about: their seats on the security council. They get a veto, let alone a vote, on world policy. To hell with that. And no the U.S. is not “perfect” but my criteria wasn’t perfection. A minimum baseline for participation in world affairs is that you do not oppress your people, with a very specific level of defining “oppress.” No saying that the United States “oppresses” minorities, for example, because of genuine differences of opinion on certain issues. My definition would not include Islamic countries even though by most definitions they oppress certain people. Genuine differences of opinion, even if almost certainly logical from a first world perspective , should not be punished. But we don’t need the UN to act as diplomats. We have have unilateral or multi-nation talks with China or anyone else. If anything, the UN hampers the effort because they are so impotent. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2020, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-maher-we-should-blame-china/851550/62 "2020-04-11T21:58:21Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > That’s what I am talking about: their seats on the security council. They get a veto, let alone a vote, on world policy. To hell with that. > > And no the U.S. is not “perfect” but my criteria wasn’t perfection. A minimum baseline for participation in world affairs is that you do not oppress your people, with a very specific level of defining “oppress.” No saying that the United States “oppresses” minorities, for example, because of genuine differences of opinion on certain issues. My definition would not include Islamic countries even though by most definitions they oppress certain people. Genuine differences of opinion, even if almost certainly logical from a first world perspective , should not be punished. > > But we don’t need the UN to act as diplomats. We have have unilateral or multi-nation talks with China or anyone else. If anything, the UN hampers the effort because they are so impotent. Actually you have it backwards, powerful nations would rather not have the UN controlling arm treaties, they usually want to have the treaties among themselves, but when the shit hits the fan they do need the United Nations. War with Gwynne Dyer, Part 7:[Goodbye War (1983)](War with Gwynne Dyer, Part 7: Goodbye War (1983)) > [@](#): > > The world was not blown up in the Cuban crisis, of course Soviet leader Nikita Khrushchev pulled his missiles out of Cuba and both sides managed to back away from the brink of war with perfect dignity. They did it mostly by pretending to accept the UN’s Authority. > > They’ve done the same thing over Suez and Hungary in 1956 over the Middle East in 1973 and in a number of other crises. The United Nations hasn’t brought perfect peace and harmony to the world but as a survival shelter against the next world war it hasn’t done that badly. > > If something like it had existed in 1914 maybe as our Nicholas would have been able to back out of the First World War, the great powers ignore it whenever they can but when they need it, they need it more than anybody else. > > [Sir Brian Edward Urquhart, UN Under-Secretary General in the 1950s] > “I don’t know what the answer is, I think we have to go on trying to prevent the worst from happening is how [Dag Hammarskjöld] once said that the United Nations was not set up to bring mankind to heaven but to save it from hell.” Incidentally in the current case thanks to the WHO and other international treaties, China did the earliest sequencing of the corona virus genome, and they gave it for free to other international groups working in a vaccine that included a Boston vaccine company that ran the first human tests in the USA in record time. What you have suggested is that we do select hell by fragmenting international efforts. Toss the baby with the bathwater indeed. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2020, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-maher-we-should-blame-china/851550/63 "2020-04-11T22:02:09Z")
> [@russian\_heel](#): > > I loved Bill but I would counter with: > > 1. I don’t remember black people getting physically attacked for Ebola, Middle-eastern people for SARS. But there have been several hate crimes perpetuated on Asians in the US over the past few weeks. > > 2. Should we eat bats? Maybe or maybe not. When will Mad Cow Disease transfer from human steak eaters host to another human? The last I checked we raise and kill pigs for food—ever hear of the Swine Flu? > > Raising turkeys or chickens? Ever heard of Bird Flu? > > Is the Chinese Government guilty of a coverup? The evidence says yes. Should the Chinese be killing pangolins, importing rhino horns, and committing other atrocities against often endangered wildlife for unproven medical “remedies”? Absolutely. > > But think about this while devouring that 14 ounce ribeye from a cow that had its throat slit after being shocked into submission followed by a wash down of Alex Jones vitamins while watching OUR President spout one lie after another about this virus: are we that much better? More than several hate crimes. Dozens. Maybe hundreds. My wife witnessed one just yesterday. She had to threaten to call the cops on a bunch of teenagers who were harassing an elderly Chinese man who was putting groceries in his car. They were making al kinds of racial slurs. ---
**Author:** ![Uniqueorn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uniqueorn/32/2807_2.png) [@Uniqueorn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uniqueorn)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2020, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-maher-we-should-blame-china/851550/64 "2020-04-11T22:13:04Z")
\*"So when people say “What if people hear ‘Chinese virus’ and blame China?” the answer is, we SHOULD blame China. Not Chinese-Americans. **But we can’t stop telling the truth because racists get the wrong idea**.[…] Sorry, Americans: we’re going to have to ask you to keep two ideas in your head at the same time".\* This is the part of the quote that I don’t agree with. There is a difference between educated and intelligent people talking about the causes of a situation and allowing the hoi polloi to do the same. This is sensible realpolitik. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2020, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-maher-we-should-blame-china/851550/65 "2020-04-11T22:19:10Z")
> [@Chingon](#): > > Who could imagine Slacker in lockstep agreement with the Right? If you think either Bill or I are in “lockstep agreement with the Right” you’re not paying attention to us at all. Or you believe, as many people seem to, that _not_ being in lockstep agreement with the Left is the same thing. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2020, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-maher-we-should-blame-china/851550/66 "2020-04-11T22:19:50Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > How long did it take for China to eliminate foot-binding, from the first time the government decided to put a stop to it, to the time it finally ended? 1664-1949? so, 285 years? I hope wet markets take a little less time to end, but you can’t expect it to happen overnight. > > Look how long fucking _slavery_ took to end in the US? FTR, the last Dynasty in China was foreign (Qing/Manchu 1644-1912). Emporer Kangxi banned foot binding in 1662 but reversed himself in 1668 because the practice was so popular amongst most classes of Chinese. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2020, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-maher-we-should-blame-china/851550/67 "2020-04-11T22:28:19Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > If you think either Bill or I are in “lockstep agreement with the Right” you’re not paying attention to us at all. Or you believe, as many people seem to, that _not_ being in lockstep agreement with the Left is the same thing. :dubious: As others have said before, an ignorant that agrees with me is still an ignorant. 🙂 Maher is still wrong on this naming thing. There are other ways to rightfully take China to task instead of going for childish nicknames for a virus. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2020, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-maher-we-should-blame-china/851550/68 "2020-04-11T22:40:38Z")
I think his main point is not about the name but about holding China to account and shaming them for their dangerous cultural practices. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2020, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-maher-we-should-blame-china/851550/69 "2020-04-11T22:54:37Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > So, you are just showing that you will ignore what I posted early in the thread, I’m not letting China off the hook, read the early post I made again. It is that only regarding the naming of the virus, the bastards in the Chinese government do have a point. When a Chinese mugwump puts the blame on the US then their point becomes a barb. It’s literally an insult added to injury on a grand scale. ---
**Author:** ![RioRico](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f04885/32.png) [@RioRico](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RioRico)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2020, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-maher-we-should-blame-china/851550/70 "2020-04-11T23:21:48Z")
Screw Maher. Screw Chinese officials, too. But mostly, screw senior US officials who in November were warned of a catastrophic pandemic and just fucked off. > [@drad\_dog](#): > > It’s a loser move to blame China, and only reflects the guilt and incompetence among those who dismantled our pandemic response, just before a pandemic. > > What’s the Boy Scout motto anyway? “Don’t blow the scoutmaster” should be right up there. [Political jabs omitted.] > [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > The virus is called the Coronavirus. COVID (sorry, I’m too lazy to type the whole formal name) is one of many coronavirii. Labeling the current COVID variants as “the Coronavirus” is misleading. People are lazy. Sad. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2020, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-maher-we-should-blame-china/851550/71 "2020-04-11T23:41:48Z")
> [@RioRico](#): > > COVID (sorry, I’m too lazy to type the whole formal name) is one of many coronavirii. Labeling the current COVID variants as “the Coronavirus” is misleading. People are lazy. Sad. The official name of the virus is sars-cov-2. The name of the illness is COVID-19. But in common parlance people say Coronavirus. Everyone knows what that means, and it’s a fine name, just like people can say “I have the flu” without specifying what particular flu virus they have. Nothing lazy or sad about it. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2020, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-maher-we-should-blame-china/851550/72 "2020-04-11T23:51:43Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > I think his main point is not about the name but about holding China to account and shaming them for their dangerous cultural practices. Again, there other ways to do that rather that to go for the equivalent of a child tantrum or insults in regards to international relations. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2020, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-maher-we-should-blame-china/851550/73 "2020-04-12T00:03:26Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > When a Chinese mugwump puts the blame on the US then their point becomes a barb. > > It’s literally an insult added to injury on a grand scale. Only because the right wing media marching orders (and some ignorants on the left side of things) are telling you to follow that illogical path. Again, there is no problem in noticing how dishonorable the Chinese rulers are, specially when attempting to blame the USA; it is just that, once again, the bastards have a point regarding the naming of the virus. The rulers are like the blind squirrel that found a nut. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2020, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-maher-we-should-blame-china/851550/74 "2020-04-12T01:23:02Z")
> [@RioRico](#): > > COVID (sorry, I’m too lazy to type the whole formal name) is one of many coronavirii. Labeling the current COVID variants as “the Coronavirus” is misleading. People are lazy. Sad. There are not “coronavirii,” there are “coronaviruses.” “Virus” is a Latin second declension noun, which in the nominative singular WOULD take the plural -i, if it took a plural, but in Latin, it meant “slime, particularly poisonous slime; venom,” and as such, was a collective noun, not a counting noun, like “butter” in English. “Butters” for “types of butter” is a fairly new usage, and would not be a familiar construction to Romans: “viri” would look like the plural of “vir,” man, so “viri” would mean “men.” “Virii” would look like nonsense, because it would be the plural of the nonexistent word “virius.” “Virus,” to mean what we use it to mean in English is thoroughly divorced from its Latin meaning. It is completely English, and as such, should be pluralized as an English word: “viruses.” ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2020, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-maher-we-should-blame-china/851550/75 "2020-04-12T02:32:16Z")
I’m as bitterly angry at China’s government’s awful response as anyone, but if you want to punish China, you have to have a way to un-punish them, to reward them for good behavior. Without that, there’s no incentive for them to respond favorably to international pressure. China was already getting punished before COVID-19, which is probably a major reason why they went to such great lengths to keep the outbreak a secret, hoping they could contain it before it became a global issue. The reality is that the global economy - not just China or the US or EU - is in danger of collapse. This is not the time to be threatening economic warfare with China; we’re better off developing a coordinate global response to pandemics and doing things that encourage China (and all countries) to report openly into an early warning system. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2020, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-maher-we-should-blame-china/851550/76 "2020-04-12T02:41:04Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > Come on. Everybody knows the virus started in Wuhan, likely from a wet market, and was abetted by opacity and denial on the part of local officials. Changing the name won’t add anything to anyone’s knowledge. It won’t influence the CCP at all. I agree. A systematic scientific naming convention is more informative and less tinged with racism. > [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > And why people listen to Bill Maher is beyond me. He is such an obvious idiot, despite his pretensions of being a thinker. I don’t want to go off-topic on this beyond responding to this one comment, but I do have to object. Is being “an obvious idiot” why his shows have garnered [41 Emmy nominations](https://www.emmys.com/bios/bill-maher)? I listen to him because he’s entertaining and informative (when he cites a statistic from one of those blue cards he keeps on his desk, it’s generally true without any further contextual clarification needed). His panelists are almost always articulate and intelligent and frequently political leaders in both liberal and conservative organizations; the occasional ones that aren’t particularly smart (like a senior Trump campaign advisor that was on once) generally don’t fare well. It’s true that the first guest with whom Maher has a one-on-one after the monologue and before the panel part of the show is, on some rare occasions, a fringe weirdo, though most of the time they’re accomplished individuals with a lot to say. But yes, sometimes weirdos. He had Milo Yiannopoulos on once, for example. It was marginally useful so that people could see what this weirdo was about, since he’s managed to make himself fairly influential, but not much use beyond that. I think having him on was a mistake, but that doesn’t detract from Maher’s other good qualities. I think having the occasional weirdo on as the one-on-one introductory guest is mainly a ratings gimmick, and I think a lot of the time the impression that Maher “agrees with them” is just misinterpreting him being polite. When the audience boos an unpopular guest, Maher is quick to quieten them down. After all, you have to be nice to the weirdos to get other entertaining nutcases to be willing to come on in the future! 😃 > [@bobot](#): > > Maher is enabling a copout. As long as fingers can be pointed at China, and China blamed for this, our own inept federal response gets a pass. He’s not enabling anything. It’s possible for both of those latter things to be true, as indeed they are. China was the source. The Trump administration, among the countless amount of bungling they did and continue to do, dismantled a US worldwide network of pandemic monitoring organizations (I believe a total of 39 of them), the most important of which was in China and could have alerted us for early preparedness. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2020, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-maher-we-should-blame-china/851550/77 "2020-04-12T03:01:17Z")
What \*\*wolfpup \*\*said. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2020, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-maher-we-should-blame-china/851550/78 "2020-04-12T03:35:11Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > What \*\*wolfpup \*\*said. …wolfpup forgot to add that Bill Maher is a racist misogynistic bigot, that unfortunately racist misogynistic bigoted views are unfortunately quite popular at the moment (dear I say it: trending) , and that 41 Emmy nominations isn’t a shield to holding racist misogynistic and bigoted views. And the views expressed by Bill Maher in the quoted section of the OP have already been addressed countless times. They aren’t novel ideas or thoughts, they aren’t new, they aren’t particularly interesting or compelling, and materially won’t save any lives. Its pure virtue signalling. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2020, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-maher-we-should-blame-china/851550/79 "2020-04-12T03:46:21Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > and that 41 Emmy nominations isn’t a shield to holding racist misogynistic and bigoted views. Might be worth noting that Trump has two himself. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2020, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-maher-we-should-blame-china/851550/80 "2020-04-12T04:51:55Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …wolfpup forgot to add that Bill Maher is a racist misogynistic bigot, that unfortunately racist misogynistic bigoted views are unfortunately quite popular at the moment (dear I say it: trending) , and that 41 Emmy nominations isn’t a shield to holding racist misogynistic and bigoted views. > > And the views expressed by Bill Maher in the quoted section of the OP have already been addressed countless times. They aren’t novel ideas or thoughts, they aren’t new, they aren’t particularly interesting or compelling, and materially won’t save any lives. Its pure virtue signalling. More on point, after looking at his argument then one considers the source, Maher also gets a ding for his misleading anti-vaccine positions and/or the way he gives a megaphone to anti-vaxxers. > **[Error | AAP](https://www.aap.org/en/error?code=404)** > > Error landing page [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-maher-we-should-blame-china/851550.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-maher-we-should-blame-china/851550.md?page=5)