# Bill Maher's "Flip a District": John Kline of Minnesota's 2nd District **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 22, 2014, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-mahers-flip-a-district-john-kline-of-minnesotas-2nd-district/699253 "2014-09-22T17:02:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![JesterX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/439d5e/32.png) [@JesterX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JesterX)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-mahers-flip-a-district-john-kline-of-minnesotas-2nd-district/699253/21 "2014-09-23T19:10:44Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > “Financial Aid” is given to the student to attend the school of their choice. “For Profit” schools are just another name for private colleges as opposed to public schools. So MIT, Harvard, and Yale are private schools but the SUNY system, Florida State, and UCLA are public schools. Actually, Harvard, MIT, and most other “name” colleges are private schools ,yes, but they’re actually not-for-profit business entities. Phoenix University and those type schools are for-profit business entities. ---
**Author:** ![SaharaTea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@SaharaTea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SaharaTea)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-mahers-flip-a-district-john-kline-of-minnesotas-2nd-district/699253/22 "2014-09-23T19:21:19Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Kline is unlikely to be unseated, but you never know. I think it’s a bad issue to pick. I don’t think anyone has the right to have their debt to the taxpayers forgiven. I’d much rather forgive people who got behind on their taxes because they had a family to feed than kids who borrowed $50,000 for a useless degree. It’s nice to know you blame the students who are just trying to improve their lives as opposed to the colleges who are shamelessly luring them in with misleading promises, not giving a fuck if they graduate, and profiting from their debt. That is the American dream after all. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-mahers-flip-a-district-john-kline-of-minnesotas-2nd-district/699253/23 "2014-09-23T19:39:30Z")
According to Charlie Cook’s table, Kline is designated “Safe Republican”. But he’s in a R+2 district, implying that some voters could conceivably swing. I’m surprised Maher didn’t go nut picking. But maybe it’s not necessary. Seen from the perspective of the Democratic Party, I say meh. But that wasn’t the point of the exercise anyway: the point was to draw interest towards Maher’s show. The student loan issue and for profit college ripoffs deserve serious public attention, so why not? Cutting through some of the usual market fundamentalist inanity is always a helpful exercise. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-mahers-flip-a-district-john-kline-of-minnesotas-2nd-district/699253/24 "2014-09-23T19:42:04Z")
Has he ever successfully flipped a district? ---
**Author:** ![JesterX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/439d5e/32.png) [@JesterX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JesterX)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-mahers-flip-a-district-john-kline-of-minnesotas-2nd-district/699253/25 "2014-09-23T20:14:21Z")
> [@SaharaTea](#): > > It’s nice to know you blame the students who are just trying to improve their lives as opposed to the colleges who are shamelessly luring them in with misleading promises, not giving a fuck if they graduate, and profiting from their debt. That is the American dream after all. I’d be more inclined to sympathize with the students if there was something in these schools standards that made it extra difficult to complete their program. Or if students did complete the program, they then find they can’t get any jobs because the wider world considers their education to be crap. Barring those, if students are failing out or dropping out, I’m not sure how you can blame the schools. My first college was a traditional one. I was kicked out for poor grades. Nobody in the school reached out to me to help, it was just, “bad grades? out you go!”. I later got my priorities straight, reapplied and graduated but still, there was no indication from any school official about caring whether I graduated or not. ---
**Author:** ![JesterX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/439d5e/32.png) [@JesterX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JesterX)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-mahers-flip-a-district-john-kline-of-minnesotas-2nd-district/699253/26 "2014-09-23T20:17:07Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Kline is unlikely to be unseated, but you never know. I think it’s a bad issue to pick. I don’t think anyone has the right to have their debt to the taxpayers forgiven. I’d much rather forgive people who got behind on their taxes because they had a family to feed than kids who borrowed $50,000 for a useless degree. You don’t think there’s something wrong about giving out financial aid for institutions that offered a “useless degree”? THAT’S the main issue for me. ---
**Author:** ![SaharaTea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@SaharaTea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SaharaTea)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-mahers-flip-a-district-john-kline-of-minnesotas-2nd-district/699253/27 "2014-09-23T20:47:09Z")
> [@JesterX](#): > > I’d be more inclined to sympathize with the students if there was something in these schools standards that made it extra difficult to complete their program. **Or if students did complete the program, they then find they can’t get any jobs because the wider world considers their education to be crap.** > > Barring those, if students are failing out or dropping out, I’m not sure how you can blame the schools. My first college was a traditional one. I was kicked out for poor grades. Nobody in the school reached out to me to help, it was just, “bad grades? out you go!”. I later got my priorities straight, reapplied and graduated but still, there was no indication from any school official about caring whether I graduated or not. I bolded your comment above because that is exactly what most of the wider world thinks of these degrees. At least when a new attorney graduates 60K in debt he has some hope of eventually paying it off. That is not the case when you graduate with a degree from the University of Phoenix, and it’s completely contrary to what their ads tell you. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-mahers-flip-a-district-john-kline-of-minnesotas-2nd-district/699253/28 "2014-09-23T21:17:37Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > Has he ever successfully flipped a district? To my knowledge, this is the first try by any media chatterer. The fact that it’s a safe seat makes the exercise interesting: even shifting it into lean Republican territory would be illuminating. Obviously flipping it would fascinating, especially on a wonky subject like tuition policy. My guess is that this will be a nothingburger, but I can’t rule out an incremental development. One can hope. ---
**Author:** ![JesterX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/439d5e/32.png) [@JesterX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JesterX)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-mahers-flip-a-district-john-kline-of-minnesotas-2nd-district/699253/29 "2014-09-23T21:44:47Z")
> [@SaharaTea](#): > > I bolded your comment above because that is exactly what most of the wider world thinks of these degrees. At least when a new attorney graduates 60K in debt he has some hope of eventually paying it off. That is not the case when you graduate with a degree from the University of Phoenix, and it’s completely contrary to what their ads tell you. Then yeah. I totally agree with you. There should be better standards for the institution a student attends before they can get financial aid ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-mahers-flip-a-district-john-kline-of-minnesotas-2nd-district/699253/30 "2014-09-23T22:39:32Z")
> [@JesterX](#): > > You don’t think there’s something wrong about giving out financial aid for institutions that offered a “useless degree”? THAT’S the main issue for me. It’s the main issue for me too. But as long as the government loans out my money and yours for these schools, the debt should be regarded just as any debt to the government. Once student loans are reformed so that you can’t take out a loan to get a puppetry degree from ANY college, then we can talk about forgiving the loans that should never have been made in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-mahers-flip-a-district-john-kline-of-minnesotas-2nd-district/699253/31 "2014-09-23T22:53:19Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > It’s the main issue for me too. But as long as the government loans out my money and yours for these schools, the debt should be regarded just as any debt to the government. Once student loans are reformed so that you can’t take out a loan to get a puppetry degree from ANY college, then we can talk about forgiving the loans that should never have been made in the first place. Or you could start treating it as fraud and get the money back from the criminal institutions rather than the victims. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-mahers-flip-a-district-john-kline-of-minnesotas-2nd-district/699253/32 "2014-09-23T22:59:31Z")
It’s not fraud if the government has known about it forever but refuses to do anything about it. And all institutions are fraudulent. They encourage young adults to borrow tons of money for useless degrees. It’s not the for profits making people borrow $100,000 so that they can join the 16 million other psychology degrees in this country that will never work in psychology. Reform it first, then do forgiveness for students who were misled by colleges AND their government, which knowingly lent money they knew would never be paid back. And while we’re at it, forgive tax debt too. They are pretty much the same thing, except that taxpayers didn’t volunteer to take on that debt. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-mahers-flip-a-district-john-kline-of-minnesotas-2nd-district/699253/33 "2014-09-23T23:21:17Z")
Kline’s district has elected a Democrat four times since 1863, and the largest oil refinery in the state (owned by the Koch brothers) is located there. I’d say there’s zero chance of him losing. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2014, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-mahers-flip-a-district-john-kline-of-minnesotas-2nd-district/699253/34 "2014-09-24T15:38:22Z")
> [@](#): > > It’s not fraud if the government has known about it forever but refuses to do anything about it. And all institutions are fraudulent. They encourage young adults to borrow tons of money for useless degrees. It’s not the for profits making people borrow $100,000 so that they can join the 16 million other psychology degrees in this country that will never work in psychology. There are tons of jobs that require a bachelor’s degree but don’t specify in what. You can get one of those with a “useless” psychology degree from a real school. You can’t get one with a Phoenix degree. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-mahers-flip-a-district-john-kline-of-minnesotas-2nd-district/699253.md?page=1)