# Bill O'Liely : Haditha and Malmedy **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 6, 2006, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oliely-haditha-and-malmedy/359661 "2006-06-06T19:28:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2006, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oliely-haditha-and-malmedy/359661/81 "2006-06-07T23:48:27Z")
Here’s what he’s talking about . . . I guess . . . – [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malmedy:](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malmedy:) > [@](#): > > In 1944 during the Second World War, it was the site of the Malmedy massacre, where some 100 prisoners of war were killed by German SS troops. Moreover, the 23, 24 and 25 December 1944 the city was bombed by the United States Army Air Forces despite the fact it was still under control of the U.S. troops. Approximately 200 civilians were killed. The number of casualties among the U.S. troops has never been revealed by the U.S. Department of War. The latter (Allied) action sounds less like an atrocity than a SNAFU. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2006, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oliely-haditha-and-malmedy/359661/82 "2006-06-08T00:01:54Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Oh, I have no doubt about that. But you don’t find his “clarification” credible in the least?.. The Oct 05 “clarification”? **John Mace** , if I got some fact so terribly wrong, “WW2 started in 1975 when the Nazi’s bombed NY harbor”, and you corrected me and I acknowledged that I got it wrong, what would you think of my credibility if I made the same claim 6 months later? CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2006, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oliely-haditha-and-malmedy/359661/83 "2006-06-08T00:24:22Z")
The Nazis bombed WHAT???!!!??? Those BASTARDS! ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2006, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oliely-haditha-and-malmedy/359661/84 "2006-06-08T00:24:28Z")
Why, he’d think that it was more important to point out that you really made the same claim 5 months and 29 days later and that the only objective stance would be to agree with his interpretation. Didn’t you get the memo? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2006, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oliely-haditha-and-malmedy/359661/85 "2006-06-08T01:13:46Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > The Oct 05 “clarification”? > > **John Mace** , if I got some fact so terribly wrong, “WW2 started in 1975 when the Nazi’s bombed NY harbor”, and you corrected me and I acknowledged that I got it wrong, > what would you think of my credibility if I made the same claim 6 months later? > > CMC fnord! Depends. If I saw exactly how you were corrected the first time (which I haven’t in this case) and you wrote a long expository essay which required careful proofreading, I’d wonder WTF was going on. If I had no idea in what way shape or form you were corrected the first time, and you made the mistake in a heated, verbal debate with someone, and you issued a correction afterwards? I’d never give it a second thought. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2006, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oliely-haditha-and-malmedy/359661/86 "2006-06-08T01:25:34Z")
Which does raise another question of mine. I keep hearing that he was “corrected” back when he made the mistake the first time. I’ve poked around on the web a bit, and can’t find any details about this “correction”. Did he acknowledge the correction and admit that he had made an error? If not, what difference does it make, especially to someone like O’Reilly who tends not to listen to other people in the first place? **Finn** Oct - Jun is 7-8 months, depending on the exact date. Just in case you were wondering. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2006, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oliely-haditha-and-malmedy/359661/87 "2006-06-08T01:29:19Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > The Nazis bombed WHAT???!!!??? > > Those BASTARDS! Nazis bombed a lot of stuff in WW2. If we forgive them for firebombing Dresden we should forgive them for bombing malmedy. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2006, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oliely-haditha-and-malmedy/359661/88 "2006-06-08T02:05:50Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > **John Mace** , if I got some fact so terribly wrong, "WW2 started in 1975 when the Nazi’s bombed NY harbor BTW, is it your proposition that saying “Malemdy” instead o “the reaction to Malmedy” is somehow analogous to getting the starting date of WWII for the US off by \> 30 years, and getting the wrong country and wrong coast for the bombing that set it off? Where’s the guy earlier who was claiming bad anaolgy for O’Reilly? **Finn** : Do you also consider the issue of whether or not O’Reilly “lied through his teeth” to be a minor nitpick of your OP? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2006, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oliely-haditha-and-malmedy/359661/89 "2006-06-08T02:22:22Z")
> [@initech](#): > > Countdown with Keith Olbermann has done some first-rate reporting on this. They’ve made a crusade out of bringing down O’Reilly: > > [This one](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ch3WB2zFUaY&search=olbermann%20o%27reilly) > > [Followed by the one](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3utX-WbrPA&search=olbermann%20o%27reilly) > > These are YouTube, so they may disappear. Get’em while they’re hot. I think Olbermann gets a real kick out of tweaking O’Reilly, because the latter is so fucking thin-skinned. I love how he keeps making fun of him, knowing Bill O’Reilly’s probably flipping his lid over the whole thing. (That and I find Keith Olbermann sexy.) And if it was such a simple mistake, why did Fox try to cover it up in the transcript, by putting _Normandy_ instead of _Malmedy_? It galls me that if it were anyone else, O’Reilly would probably be defending My Lai. Asshole. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2006, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oliely-haditha-and-malmedy/359661/90 "2006-06-08T02:24:10Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > I know we’re all used to the slime that pours out of this vacuous scumfuck’s mouth, but it seems to me … …Motherfucker. I’m guessing the irony is lost on you. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2006, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oliely-haditha-and-malmedy/359661/91 "2006-06-08T02:29:03Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > **Finn** : Do you also consider the issue of whether or not O’Reilly “lied through his teeth” to be a minor nitpick of your OP? Nope, as his slander of the troops was the main thrust of my OP. Unintentional slander is a ‘lesser charge’ as far as I see it. I don’t agree with your interpretation and I think it’s silly to claim that it’s the only objective interpretation, but malicious lying is still worse than brainstem level stupid mistakes. Still, even if he’s just dumber than dirt, his lack of a real apology makes him a scumfuck. When you (pl) call the victims of a Nazi atrocity war criminals, you have a moral obligation to apologize. 'least, anybody who was being objective would say so. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2006, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oliely-haditha-and-malmedy/359661/92 "2006-06-08T02:39:59Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > I’m guessing the irony is lost on you. I’m guessing that you’re using your own special definition of irony. And, by the way, seeing as how you’ve gone on record calling anybody who read Human Rights Watch/Amnesty International etc… and believed their findings a traitor, it’s funny that you can’t seem to find the space to comment on O’Liely calling murdered American soldiers war criminals. If you think it’s ‘vacuous’ to call someone who slanders our soldiers like that a motherfucker, but think that anybody who reads reports on torture is a traitor… well, obviously your standards are highly mutable and you’re just posting to stir up shit. Who would’ve thunk it? ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2006, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oliely-haditha-and-malmedy/359661/93 "2006-06-08T02:41:56Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > I keep hearing that he was “corrected” back when he made the mistake the first time. I’ve poked around on the web a bit, and can’t find any details about this “correction”… **Finn** : Do you also consider the issue of whether or not O’Reilly “lied through his teeth” to be a minor nitpick of your OP? It’s not much of an issue. From [mediamatters.org](http://mediamatters.org/items/200606030002), quoting Keith Olbermann: \* "It was assumed last year he had simply made a foolish error, **and though he got beaten up appropriately in some places, it was all largely dismissed as merely that – a mistake.** (bolding added). Then came this Tuesday night. Again, O’Reilly’s guest was General Wes Clark. This time, the topic was the apparent murder of Iraqi civilians at Haditha. That O’Reilly was dismissive of that event should be no surprise, that he should have described as the real crime of Iraq the events of Abu Ghraib should be no surprise to those who know of his willingness to jettison his most important beliefs of yesterday for the expediencies and the ratings of today. But that he should have brought up Malmédy again – that was a surprise… O’REILLY [video clip]: In Malmédy, as you know, U.S. forces captured SS forces who had their hands in the air and they were unarmed, and they shot them down. You know that. That’s on the record. Been documented. OLBERMANN: Thus was the full depth of Bill O’Reilly’s insult to the American dead of World War II made clear. The mistake of last October was not some innocent slip nor misremembered history. This was the way O’Reilly understood it, and thus, this way it had to be. No errors corrected, no apologies offered, no stopping the relentless tide of bull, even briefly enough to check one fact."\* So in **John’s** world, we have to assume that O’Reilly’s gross mischaracterization of the Malmedy massacre last year drew no heat - at least nothing that poor Bill would ever have heard about, and that he innocently made the same error this time out, which he of course immediately corrected in full and apologized graciously for…oops, scratch that last part. In **John’s** world, we also must assume that O’Reilly would never ever intentionally spread a falsehood, because he’d get caught and it would be silly for him to try to get away with it. Um…see a little bit of contradiction in these assumptions, **John**? Seeing as how O’Reilly has habitually played fast and loose with the facts, his making a gross, insulting and vile misstatement of history and then repeating himself without indication of regret should make the “issue” of whether he’s intentionally lying rather moot, even to a parse-and-nitpick prince of Junior Moddery like yourself. Ronald Reagan used to be famous for repeatedly bullshitting at press conferences, creating stories to support his policies based on urban legend and flat-out nonsense. He’d get lambasted in the press about it later, but go on doing the same thing over and over again. Was it documented that Ronnie was intentionally lying on each occasion that he spread falsehoods? Did it really matter in the end? You know, **John** , rigorously insisting that posters document every inch and step of their posts can occasionally be useful. In your case, more often then not it just shows you to be a pissant with an agenda. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2006, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oliely-haditha-and-malmedy/359661/94 "2006-06-08T03:12:17Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > You know, **John** , rigorously insisting that posters document every inch and step of their posts can occasionally be useful. In your case, more often then not it just shows you to be a pissant with an agenda. Yep. The agenda is called “trying to understand all the facts before reaching a conclusion.” I can see from the rest of that diatribe that you have a different agenda. **Finn** : We’re just going to have to agree to disagree, as I have nothing more to add and I doubt you do either. But I think you’re confusing outrage with accuracy. You might find that striving for more of the latter makes for a better justification for the former. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2006, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oliely-haditha-and-malmedy/359661/95 "2006-06-08T03:19:31Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > But I think you’re confusing outrage with accuracy. You might find that striving for more of the latter makes for a better justification for the former. No… I’m outraged over the lack of accuracy that led to the slandering of murdered American soldiers and which had no apology to follow it up. I’ve also been pointing out that one should have enough accuracy not to call murdered American heroes, war criminals. I think that’s a level of accuracy that most can agree upon as a baseline. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2006, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oliely-haditha-and-malmedy/359661/96 "2006-06-08T03:52:23Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > BTW, is it your proposition that saying “Malemdy” instead o “the reaction to Malmedy”… This is what he said, October 04, 2005 O’REILLY: General, you need to look at the Malmady (ph) massacre in World War II and the 82nd Airborne. [http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,171190,00.html](http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,171190,00.html) June 02, 2006 O’REILLY: And in Malmedy, as you know, U.S. forces captured S.S. forces, who had their hands in the air. And they were unarmed. And they shot them down. You know that. That’s on the record. Been documented… [http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,197635,00.html](http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,197635,00.html) Hard to read “the reaction to Malmedy” into that. YMOV > [@John Mace](#): > > …analogous to getting the starting date of WWII for the US off by \> 30 years, and getting the wrong country and wrong coast for the bombing that set it off?.. No, bad analogy, confusing the the 82nd Airborne with the SS is a thousand times worse, but I guess that’s just me. > [@Jackmannii](#): > > …O’Reilly’s gross mischaracterization of the Malmedy massacre last year drew no heat - at least nothing that poor Bill would ever have heard about, and that he innocently made the same error this time out… I’d love to see the inbox for this E-Mail account “The O’Reilly Factor - \”, I’m betting it was so heated the server melted down! The problem is he didn’t make the same error he went from “you need to look” to “You know that. That’s on the record. Been documented”. CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2006, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oliely-haditha-and-malmedy/359661/97 "2006-06-08T03:53:38Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Yep. The agenda is called “trying to understand all the facts before reaching a conclusion.” Your agenda in this thread is best characterized as misstating arguments of opposing posters and contorting yourself into a pretzel trying to explain away damning facts - that is, when you can be bothered to make any explanations at all. > [@John Mace](#): > > I can see from the rest of that diatribe that you have a different agenda. Yes, that’s truly a definitive rebuttal. :rolleyes: But do keep on “trying to understand all the facts”. We’ll be pulling for you. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2006, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oliely-haditha-and-malmedy/359661/98 "2006-06-08T17:16:45Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Your agenda in this thread is best characterized as misstating arguments of opposing posters and contorting yourself into a pretzel trying to explain away damning facts - that is, when you can be bothered to make any explanations at all.Yes, that’s truly a definitive rebuttal. :rolleyes: Haven’t been paying attention to **John** for the last year or so, have you? My own opinion is that he’s just having fun with everyone - certainly he’s not actually believing the shit (or non-shit, really, since there’s never **ANY** substance anymore) he spews anymore. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2006, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oliely-haditha-and-malmedy/359661/99 "2006-06-08T19:47:29Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > Haven’t been paying attention to **John** for the last year or so, have you? > > My own opinion is that he’s just having fun with everyone - certainly he’s not actually believing the shit (or non-shit, really, since there’s never **ANY** substance anymore) he spews anymore. So you’re saying **John Mace** is indistingushable from the right-wing insta-pundits he defends? ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2006, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oliely-haditha-and-malmedy/359661/100 "2006-06-08T20:07:37Z")
Wouldn’t be the only odd thing in this thread **rjung**. After all, we’ve got **Schilla** , one of the brave warriors of the [152[sup]nd[/sup] Keyboard Brigade](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v294/finnagain/InternetCommando.jpg), who’d rather whine about how calling out someone who slanders our troops is ‘vacuous’, but can’t be bothered to spend a single word on that actual slander of our murdered heroes. Why, it’s almost like he has no real convictions and only posts to try to piss people off and make himself feel big and tough, fightin’ all those commie pinko traitors who, ya know, read. The next time he trollishly lays into someone about ‘supporting the troops’, I hope someone cites this thread for him. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oliely-haditha-and-malmedy/359661.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oliely-haditha-and-malmedy/359661.md?page=6)