# Bill O'Reilly and Al Franken in Steel Cage Match on C-SPAN **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 2, 2003, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oreilly-and-al-franken-in-steel-cage-match-on-c-span/179239 "2003-06-02T21:59:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/13edae/32.png) [@Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Cheatem_Undhow)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2003, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oreilly-and-al-franken-in-steel-cage-match-on-c-span/179239/1 "2003-06-02T21:59:58Z")
Well, kinda. Apparently [over the weekend](http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,88364,00.html) at a BookExpo program broadcast by C-SPAN, Bill and Al had quite the little tiff. I just caught the “shut up, you idiot” part on Fox as I was flipping channels. My question for the Dopers: anyone know where I can find the full tape? It doesn’t appear to be on the C-SPAN or Booknotes site. Putting this in the Pit, BTW, because let’s face it: that’s where it’s inevitably going to end up anyway. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2003, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oreilly-and-al-franken-in-steel-cage-match-on-c-span/179239/2 "2003-06-02T22:05:40Z")
What an utter lack of class showed by O’Reilly. Him calling someone else “vicious” and “blinded by ideology” is like Pam Anderson calling someone else a “blonde bimbo.” ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2003, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oreilly-and-al-franken-in-steel-cage-match-on-c-span/179239/3 "2003-06-02T22:22:08Z")
i thought that was cool. and Franken just sold a book! ---
**Author:** ![Icerigger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icerigger/32/432_2.png) [@Icerigger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icerigger)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2003, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oreilly-and-al-franken-in-steel-cage-match-on-c-span/179239/4 "2003-06-02T23:15:48Z")
Al has a new book coming out **Lies and the Lying Liars That Tell Them**. The cover of the book has a picture of Bill O’Reilly on it, that is what set him off. Franken also called Anne Coulter a bitch.🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Spavined\_Gelding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@Spavined\_Gelding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spavined_Gelding)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oreilly-and-al-franken-in-steel-cage-match-on-c-span/179239/5 "2003-06-03T00:06:19Z")
According to [these people](http://www.angelfire.com/journal2/oreilly-sucks/peabodyfacts.htm), our boy Bill has not only occasionally confused Peabody with Polk, the award was for work done by _The Inside Edition_ after O’Reilly left the show. It is my hope that stuff like this will result in O’Reilly’s self destruction _al la_ Senator McCarthy–another blow hard bully who was strung enough rope to hang himself. ---
**Author:** ![Spavined\_Gelding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@Spavined\_Gelding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spavined_Gelding)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oreilly-and-al-franken-in-steel-cage-match-on-c-span/179239/6 "2003-06-03T00:08:16Z")
Incidentally, Frankin is the dinner speaker at this years state lawyers’ convention. This ought to be fun. ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oreilly-and-al-franken-in-steel-cage-match-on-c-span/179239/7 "2003-06-03T00:25:49Z")
Whoa, I am so totally buying that book. Franken’s book on Limbaugh was a classic, so I eagerly await his forthcoming obliteration of O’Reilly and Coulter. ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oreilly-and-al-franken-in-steel-cage-match-on-c-span/179239/8 "2003-06-03T00:57:52Z")
Bwahaha! I like the way O’Reilly’s flunkies describe the incident on his show’s site: _Also, why did O’Reilly have to get tough with comedian turned author Al Franken (search) in Los Angeles this past weekend?_ From [http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,1315,00.html](http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,1315,00.html) I can’t wait for Franken’s new book to come out. ---
**Author:** ![Siegfried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/91b2a8/32.png) [@Siegfried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siegfried)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oreilly-and-al-franken-in-steel-cage-match-on-c-span/179239/9 "2003-06-03T01:17:55Z")
Is Al Franken a good author? My only exposure to him from the really old _Saturday Night Live_ episodes. I caught part of this on the television this weekend. I caught part of Franken’s speech. Every so often, he’d turn to O’Reilly during a specific example; it seems to me that he was implying O’Reilly was culpable for a lot of it. Whether this is true or not, I no real idea, but O’Reilly certainly looked pissed on the wide shots. A while later, I flipped back through it when it was starting to get ugly. I decided that I see enough trainwrecks in the Pit, and I didn’t need to see one on television, too. ---
**Author:** ![Slacker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6bbea6/32.png) [@Slacker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slacker)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oreilly-and-al-franken-in-steel-cage-match-on-c-span/179239/10 "2003-06-03T01:34:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Siegfried \* > **Is Al Franken a good author? My only exposure to him from the really old _Saturday Night Live_ episodes.** I loved _Rush Limbaugh is a Big Fat Idiot_, although your enjoyment may depend on your politics. _Why Not Me?_ is absolute comic/satire genious. I highly recommend it. I never read the Stuart Smalley book, and I didn’t like Oh The Things I Know that much. Can’t wait for the new one though. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![survivorology.com](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/0ea827/32.png) [@survivorology.com](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/survivorology.com)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oreilly-and-al-franken-in-steel-cage-match-on-c-span/179239/11 "2003-06-03T01:57:28Z")
My understanding is that CSpan 2 will be rerunning the show some point on Friday evening. This was mentioned briefly on CSpan 2 before the Sunday breakfast that Madeleine Albright and Michael Moore and others spoke. The reason this was mentioned is Pat Schroeder, the emcee, referred to the battle a few times during the Sunday breakfast. I checked the TV schedule at [http://www.cspan.org](http://www.cspan.org), but the schedule for Friday is not yet posted. I did watch all the Cspan 2 live programming over the weekend, and will try to be impartial while describing the events. Saturday, about 30 minutes before the lunch where both Franken and O’Reilly spoke, O’Reilly went alone and talked to the CSpan anchor. O’Reilly emphasized repeatedly how honest he was, and that he takes responsibilities for his errors. He was customarily rude to the callers when answering their questions. Most of the callers were not fans of his show. In particular, one caller was complaining about how rude he was to the family of Jeremy Glick. Jeremy Glick was one of the heroes on Flight 93, that was lost on Sept 11, 2001. Bill’s side is that the Glick family had an agenda and was lying on his show. The last caller on the show was a Muslim American who told Bill O’Reilly that he is being treated much worse because of the hatred spewed forth on the show. That caller went on to say that Bill O’Reilly was never profiled as a profiled as a possible terrorist because Tim McVeigh was an Irish American. Right after that, O’Reilly went to the lunch. Tucker Carlson, the other conservative scheduled to be on the panel, was a no show. O’Reilly was the first of three speakers. O’Reilly talked mainly about how careful he is to check his facts, and that he doesn’t have to withdraw stories because the stories were wrong. He emphasized his sense of fairness, honesty, and integrity through his talk. Bill did take a few pokes at Al Franken. Bill said he didn’t call anyone big and fat or a liar. He messed up the title of Al’s new book. I don’t think Bill did that intentionally. Molly Ivins spoke next. She did disagree with several of Bill O’Reilly’s views, but the talk was cordial. Al Franken was next, and started out requesting a better picture for the cover of his book “Lies: and the Lying Liars who Tell Them, a Fair and Balanced Look at the Right.” He told Bill that he should get the name of the book right. There is a picture of Bill O’Reilly on the cover. According to Molly Ivins, Bill was very upset to see the the cover of the book. By the way, “Fair and Balanced” is a slogan used by FOX News. Franken than said any picture of Bill O’Reilly with his mouth open would make a better cover for the book. Franken went on to speak about two examples in his book. One was about O’Reilly and the Peabody/ Peacock. The other, and more biting example, involved Ann Coulter. He accused her of intentionally trying to mislead her readers. After the speaches, the talk got very heated. The moderator, Pat Schroeder, tried to start a discussion between Molly Ivins and Bill O’Reilly about the common man, a theme present in both of their talks. O’Reilly and Franken continued to exchange insults. O’Reilly was trying everything to get Franken to shut up. And nothing worked. Molly Ivins continued to speak with a calm tone, and refuted many arguments presented by O’Reilly. Al Franken did refute one or two points, but mainly he was taunting O’Reilly. The one thing I noticed is that O’Reilly had many supporters in the crowd early on when he was speaking. But, by the time Franken was done speaking, no one was cheering for O’Reilly. The audience did ask a few questions at the end. After the lunch was over, Ivins and Franken spoke with the Cspan anchor for about 30 minutes. Cspan said that they had tried to get O’Reilly to appear at the same time, but he had a schedule conflict. That was why he appeared earlier, before the lunch. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oreilly-and-al-franken-in-steel-cage-match-on-c-span/179239/12 "2003-06-03T02:27:27Z")
During his letters segment tonight, O’Reilly read about three letters from some of his more rabid fans expressing outrage at how poor Bill was treated by Al Franken and what a horrible person Franken was. Like O’Reilly’s fan mail is supposed to prove something. I’m gonna get me a copy of Franken’s book (and I love that title). ---
**Author:** ![widdershins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f0a364/32.png) [@widdershins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/widdershins)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oreilly-and-al-franken-in-steel-cage-match-on-c-span/179239/13 "2003-06-03T04:50:20Z")
I caught part of this before I went to work Saturday, I’ll have to stay on the lookout for that replay on Friday. Since Franken and O’Reilly both annoy me, I’ll enjoy watching them fight it out in full. ---
**Author:** ![Baldwin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baldwin/32/7264_2.png) [@Baldwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baldwin)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oreilly-and-al-franken-in-steel-cage-match-on-c-span/179239/14 "2003-06-03T11:24:26Z")
Franken’s a funny writer. However, I’d never call Ann Coulter a “bitch”, which is rude; I’d probably call her a “psychotic cunt”. I like Molly Ivins a lot. I think she’s used to making cordial, reasoned arguments in the midst of men shouting at each other. ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oreilly-and-al-franken-in-steel-cage-match-on-c-span/179239/15 "2003-06-03T11:42:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Baldwin \* > \*\*Franken’s a funny writer. However, I’d never call Ann Coulter a “bitch”, which is rude; I’d probably call her a “psychotic cunt”. > \*\* I think you’re kidding here, but I’m not sure. So in case you’re not… how is the former rude and the latter not? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oreilly-and-al-franken-in-steel-cage-match-on-c-span/179239/16 "2003-06-03T12:02:51Z")
I will surely be buying a copy of that book. But then, I think Franken is a very funny writer. ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oreilly-and-al-franken-in-steel-cage-match-on-c-span/179239/17 "2003-06-03T12:21:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Icerigger \* > \*\*Franken also called Anne Coulter a bitch.🙂 \*\* I’m not finding any factual inacuracies here from what I’ve seen, but to be fair, there should be a clinical study. But getting a grant from the Bush administration to research the question “Is Ann Coulter A Bitch?” might be tricky… ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oreilly-and-al-franken-in-steel-cage-match-on-c-span/179239/18 "2003-06-03T12:22:20Z")
Personally I don’t like Franken or O’Reilley, I think they are both filled with the brown stinky stuff and I also think that both of them are bias toward their personal beliefs. I don’t really have too much exposure to Franken though, so I’ll let him off a little easier. The last thing I remember about him was him going on a few shows and spewing forth his opinions and interrupting people and the like. Maybe he was right in what he said, but he sure didn’t get me to want to listen to him. O’Reilley on the other hand is also filled with the brown peanut stuff. I listen to him on the radio a lot, simply because he comes on after Howard Stern and I can’t get reception for any other talk radio (listening to music oddly enough makes my mind wander). In any event, the thing I can’t stand about him is his hypocrisy on certain issues. I had an example of which in mind, but I can’t really remember the first part. In any event, he’ll say something like this: (for pure example) “You can’t say that crime will increase if you legalize prostitution.” (Again, I’m pretty sure he’s against this view, but I’m using it as an example). Then the next day he’ll get on the air and say something like this: “If you allow homosexuals to marry, then you are opening the door to allow all sorts of other perversions to marry”. (he’s actually said something similar to this particular statement). And yet he doesn’t realize that both views work on the same logical fallacy. Granted the “first” I presented here isn’t an actual view of his, it’s an example because of my failing memory. If I’m wrong, and he doesn’t do anything remotely like what I’ve suggested, then I’ll freely admit it. ---
**Author:** ![Slacker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6bbea6/32.png) [@Slacker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slacker)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oreilly-and-al-franken-in-steel-cage-match-on-c-span/179239/19 "2003-06-03T13:06:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Meatros \* > **Personally I don’t like Franken or O’Reilley, I think they are both filled with the brown stinky stuff and I also think that both of them are bias toward their personal beliefs.** Yep, but who isn’t? The only problem is that O’Reilly presents his opinions as “fair and balanced.” Franken is just a writer/commentator. He’s _paid_ to express his opinions. ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oreilly-and-al-franken-in-steel-cage-match-on-c-span/179239/20 "2003-06-03T13:09:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Meatros \* > I also think that both of them are bias toward their personal beliefs. As opposed to being bias **ed** _against_ their personal beliefs? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oreilly-and-al-franken-in-steel-cage-match-on-c-span/179239.md?page=2)