# Bill O'Reilly and Al Franken in Steel Cage Match on C-SPAN **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 2, 2003, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oreilly-and-al-franken-in-steel-cage-match-on-c-span/179239 "2003-06-02T21:59:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oreilly-and-al-franken-in-steel-cage-match-on-c-span/179239/21 "2003-06-03T13:10:08Z")
What I’ve been able to catch of the incident makes for some perverse entertainment. Seems to me Bill O’ just can’t stand Franken personally, or else had trouble dealing with someone at the opposite end who is just as convinced of being right, just as unconcerned about looking good from all sides, and just as eager to turn his schtick on him, under conditions he does not control – someone also who probably, in his eyes, should not be in his same league, coming as Franken does from the entertainment side of infotainment [SNL]. (Also, your usual stereotypical “Media Liberal” tends to abhor becoming involved in direct confrontation) Ironically, O’Reilly himself has expressed on an interview that he enjoys interviews with subjects that he knows despise him. Of course, my take on BOTH O’Reilly and Franken is that as time has progressed they have each become ever more full of himself and ever more (self-)righteous (an ailment that tends to affect many of us)… just that O’Reilly has done so ten times faster than Franken, in front of a larger audience, and all the while claiming it’s No-Spin “fair and balanced” journalism. Yeah right. ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oreilly-and-al-franken-in-steel-cage-match-on-c-span/179239/22 "2003-06-03T13:13:41Z")
D’oh, me not lurn englash guud. 😃 Figures I’d make a mistake… What do you want from me people!! I haven’t had my coffee! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![jesuslynch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e99b99/32.png) [@jesuslynch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jesuslynch)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oreilly-and-al-franken-in-steel-cage-match-on-c-span/179239/23 "2003-06-03T13:15:13Z")
[http://www.cosmicseed.net/assets/Sounds/franken\_cosmicseed.net.mp3](http://www.cosmicseed.net/assets/Sounds/franken_cosmicseed.net.mp3) ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oreilly-and-al-franken-in-steel-cage-match-on-c-span/179239/24 "2003-06-03T13:30:12Z")
I think Franken’s behavior and taunting was uncalled for. ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oreilly-and-al-franken-in-steel-cage-match-on-c-span/179239/25 "2003-06-03T13:34:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jesuslynch \* > \*\*[http://www.cosmicseed.net/assets/Sounds/franken\_cosmicseed.net.mp3](http://www.cosmicseed.net/assets/Sounds/franken_cosmicseed.net.mp3) \*\* Thanks, but what is that scissor cutting sound? It’s driving me crazy… ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oreilly-and-al-franken-in-steel-cage-match-on-c-span/179239/26 "2003-06-03T13:35:39Z")
Don’t be a whinger. The two deserve each other. Frankly, Franken has more style. I’ve always liked his mean streak. ---
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oreilly-and-al-franken-in-steel-cage-match-on-c-span/179239/27 "2003-06-03T13:54:53Z")
Here’s part of O’Reilly’s response from his show, courtesy of Tom Tomorrow’s blog ([www.thismodernworld.com](http://www.thismodernworld.com)): > [@](#): > > What this guy writes and says does not matter to me, other than, Mike, he insulted me in a forum where I was at a decided disadvantage\*, you know, he went over his time limit. It was very, very sneaky, and you know, as I said at the top of the broadcast, somebody calls you a liar to your face, you don’t just laugh that off. That’s an insult. In the old west, that woulda got you shot. See in the old west, and I woulda loved to have been in the old west, Al and I woulda just had a little, uh, a little shootout. You know? We woulda went out, on Wilshire Avenue, and uh, six shooters, now he’s a much smaller target than I am, about four foot eleven, but he’s wider, and it woulda been you know, Clint Eastwood time. I woulda had the cheroot, the serape, woulda given my squint, and I woulda put a bullet right between his head. Woulda been wrong, woulda been wrong, but it was the old west, and I would not have known any better, so I wouldn’t have been held accountable because I would not have known any–now I do, now in 2003 that would have been wrong. Two points: 1.) Why was this “a forum in which (Bill) was at a decided disadvantage”? Because he doesn’t control the microphones on this one? Because other people are allowed to complete thoughts? 2.) Is anyone else thoroughly creeped out by his rather elaborate fantasies about shooting Franken? I mean, we’ve all had our murderous rampage fantasies, but most few of us have the chutpah to enthusiastically describe them on national television. He could have refuted Franken’s assertions, but instead he talked about how cool it would be to shoot him. What a waste of air time. Dr. J ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/13edae/32.png) [@Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Cheatem_Undhow)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oreilly-and-al-franken-in-steel-cage-match-on-c-span/179239/28 "2003-06-03T14:20:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DoctorJ \* > **Here’s part of O’Reilly’s response from his show, courtesy of Tom Tomorrow’s blog ([www.thismodernworld.com](http://www.thismodernworld.com)):** Just FTR, that quote is from his radio show. I caught the first part of his Fox TV show and he basically said “Al Franken is a jerk, not worth responding to, and he went over time, but he’s really not worth responding to, and yes he pissed me off, but he’s really not worth responding to, and that’s all I’m going go say because he’s really not worth responding to.” He sure was animated over a guy who wasn’t worth responding to. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Spiff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiff/32/9852_2.png) [@Spiff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiff)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oreilly-and-al-franken-in-steel-cage-match-on-c-span/179239/29 "2003-06-03T14:21:59Z")
New sig. Says all there needs to be said about the integrity of O’Reilly. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oreilly-and-al-franken-in-steel-cage-match-on-c-span/179239/30 "2003-06-03T14:23:29Z")
The bizarre thing is, on “SNL,” Al Franken was often very funny. In person, the guy has absolutely NO sense of humor. None. I don’t know if he’s just a bitter, angry person who’s capable of playing funny roles, or if he’s so terrified of not being taken seriously that he avoids showing the slightest sign of humor. Either way, when he talks politics, he is utterly charmless. It isn’t easy to make Bill O’Reilly look like a relatively fun guy… but Al franken managed it! ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oreilly-and-al-franken-in-steel-cage-match-on-c-span/179239/31 "2003-06-03T14:47:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Scylla \* > \*\*I think Franken’s behavior and taunting was uncalled for. \*\* Ordinarily I might agree with you but Bill O’Reilly is a guy who has made a career precisely out of making uncalled for attacks on his guests, screaming at them, calling them “liars,” impugning their motives, etc. O’reilly loves to try to catch his guests in verbal contradictions or mistatements which he can blow up to villify and discredit them. Franken caught O’Reilly in a “lie.” Maybe it was a minor lie. O’Reilly was trying to puff up his credentials (incidentally, Those Pulk awards were won _after_ O’Reilly had left that show). Maybe it was even just a slip of the tongue, but that’s not a benefit of the doubt that O’Relly has ever been willing to give anyone else. He got a taste of his own medicine. The best he could respond with was name-calling and murder fantasies. It’s ridiculous for him to complain about publiccriticism, even partisan public criticism, because that’s _all O’Reilly does_. That’s his schtick. He’s a demagogue. If he can’t take it then he shouldn’t dish it out. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oreilly-and-al-franken-in-steel-cage-match-on-c-span/179239/32 "2003-06-03T14:54:04Z")
Diog: I dislike O’Reilly, myself. I just don’t think that what O’Reilly is like excuses Franken’s actions. I don’t like Franken much, either. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/13edae/32.png) [@Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Cheatem_Undhow)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oreilly-and-al-franken-in-steel-cage-match-on-c-span/179239/33 "2003-06-03T15:11:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > **Franken caught O’Reilly in a “lie.” Maybe it was a minor lie. O’Reilly was trying to puff up his credentials (incidentally, Those Pulk awards were won _after_ O’Reilly had left that show). Maybe it was even just a slip of the tongue, but that’s not a benefit of the doubt that O’Relly has ever been willing to give anyone else.** While I agree that O’Reilly could have handled things better – a brief statement on his show that _Inside Edition_ had won Polk awards, not Peabodies, coupled with a short apology and issued promptly after the error was made known would have been ideal – Franken’s flogging of this thing is stupid, particularly the point about when the award was won. O’Reilly pointed to the award as evidence that the show was a quality program. It thus shouldn’t matter that the award came after O’Reilly’s tenure there ended, since the basic format and content of the show had not changed. Unless you’re going to argue that _Inside Edition_ went from crap to quality upon O’Reilly’s departure, the point is silly. Anyway, I just listened to the MP3 linked above. Franken comes off as a grade-A asshole. O’Reilly comes off as a cranky doofus. Pat Schroeder echoes the old SNL imitations of her. And Molly Ivins comes off as the most sane and rational person in the room. I never thought I’d be writing that last sentence, BTW. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oreilly-and-al-franken-in-steel-cage-match-on-c-span/179239/34 "2003-06-03T15:28:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Dewey Cheatem Undhow \* > \*\*. And Molly Ivins comes off as the most sane and rational person in the room. > \*\* congrats on your first step away from the dark side. Really the food’s much better in the “liberal but not a fucking lunatic” section. and I must step in and comment on the Stuart Smally book that Franken did. Absolutely one of the funniest I’ve read, but you have to have some smattering of knowledge in 12 step programs, and be able to see them skewered and find it funny. so the audience may be limited. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oreilly-and-al-franken-in-steel-cage-match-on-c-span/179239/35 "2003-06-03T15:35:12Z")
> [@](#): > > but you have to have some smattering of knowledge in 12 step programs, and be able to see them skewered and find it funny. so the audience may be limited. But that’s… ok. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/13edae/32.png) [@Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Cheatem_Undhow)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oreilly-and-al-franken-in-steel-cage-match-on-c-span/179239/36 "2003-06-03T15:38:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by wring \* > \*\*congrats on your first step away from the dark side. \*\* Not really – it’s a pretty low bar to be more sane and rational than the rest of the folks on that panel. I’d hope that on a panel containing Michael Moore, James Carville, Sean Hannity and Bill Kristol, you’d say Kristol was the most sane and rational person in the room.\*\* > [@](#): > > and I must step in and comment on the Stuart Smally book that Franken did.\*\* And credit where credit is due, that Smalley sketch with Michael Jordan was one of the best things SNL’s ever done. “I don’t have to dribble the ball fast or throw the ball through the hoop.” Classic stuff. ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oreilly-and-al-franken-in-steel-cage-match-on-c-span/179239/37 "2003-06-03T15:49:30Z")
I see a lot of people who believe O’Reilly is a pompous ass, and a few who feel the same about Franken. Who here believes that the “No Spin Zone” really is fair and unbalanced? Really, I’d like to know who these people are who believe there’s no bias or agenda at work there. ---
**Author:** ![vibrotronica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/a9a28c/32.png) [@vibrotronica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vibrotronica)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oreilly-and-al-franken-in-steel-cage-match-on-c-span/179239/38 "2003-06-03T15:52:26Z")
> [@](#): > > a bitter, angry person who’s capable of playing funny roles Isn’t that the definition of a comedian? ---
**Author:** ![El\_Gui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@El\_Gui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Gui)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oreilly-and-al-franken-in-steel-cage-match-on-c-span/179239/39 "2003-06-03T16:09:50Z")
Here is the [streaming video](http://www.broadbandc-span.org/video/300k_btv053103_panel2.ram) of the whole panel discussion on C-span broadband. I forgot where, but in a discussion on the program on another site, the replay time/date mentioned was different from what was posted earlier by **[survivorology.com](http://survivorology.com)**. The replay on C-SPAN2 was supposedly scheduled for Sunday June 8th at 5:30 p.m. ET/2:30 p.m. PT; not sure if this or the Friday time is the correct one. I wonder if there will now be a FOX special titled, _“When Liberals Attack”_? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oreilly-and-al-franken-in-steel-cage-match-on-c-span/179239/40 "2003-06-03T16:10:25Z")
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