# Bill O'Reilly and Al Franken in Steel Cage Match on C-SPAN **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 2, 2003, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oreilly-and-al-franken-in-steel-cage-match-on-c-span/179239 "2003-06-02T21:59:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2003, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oreilly-and-al-franken-in-steel-cage-match-on-c-span/179239/61 "2003-06-04T12:14:44Z")
Bill O’Reilly is well aware of the status of each award. How much would you respect an actor who repeated referred to himself as an “Oscar Winner” who, when it was brought to light that he was not an Oscar winner but only won a Tony, attacked the person who corrected him as “Viscious with a V”? Whether its mistated credentials or a soldier wearing medals on his uniform that he never earned, a Lie is a Lie. Beyond that, the true test of character is what the person does once its brought to his attention. Did O’Reilly hold a press conference and say “I have no excuse for this error, but I accept full responsibility for it. When its all said and done, the buck stops Here.” ? Did he even take the time to accept responsibility for his actions on camera? Or did he just try to Weasel and Worm his way out by impuning the character of the person who brought the truth to light? You don’t have to like Al Franken to be disgusted by Bill O’Reilly’s lack of spine and character. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/13edae/32.png) [@Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Cheatem_Undhow)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2003, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oreilly-and-al-franken-in-steel-cage-match-on-c-span/179239/62 "2003-06-04T14:33:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by quietman1920 \* > **Bill O’Reilly is well aware of the status of each award.** So presumably is Molly Ivins, who in the C-SPAN broadcast indicated that the Polk and Peabody were both very prestigious journalism awards.\*\* > [@](#): > > How much would you respect an actor who repeated referred to himself as an “Oscar Winner” who, when it was brought to light that he was not an Oscar winner but only won a Tony, attacked the person who corrected him as “Viscious with a V”?\*\* I think the “viscious” characterization was aimed more at Franken’s overall political M.O. than at the specific point about the award. By the way, saying someone “only” won a Tony is foolish – a Tony award is the highest honor for a Broadway show. You’re right, it would be odd for someone to claim they had won a film award instead of an award for a live stage performance. Here’s a better analogy for you: someone claims to have won a People’s Choice award when they actually won a Golden Globe. \*\* > [@](#): > > Whether its mistated credentials or a soldier wearing medals on his uniform that he never earned, a Lie is a Lie. \*\* Unless the the speaker did not intend to mislead. If O’Reilly just mixed up the Polk and Peabody, he wasn’t lying. If he mistakenly used the wrong pronoun, either out of outright error or out of feelings of collegiality with his former colleagues, then he wasn’t lying. \*\* > [@](#): > > Beyond that, the true test of character is what the person does once its brought to his attention. Did O’Reilly hold a press conference and say “I have no excuse for this error, but I accept full responsibility for it. When its all said and done, the buck stops Here.” ? Did he even take the time to accept responsibility for his actions on camera? Or did he just try to Weasel and Worm his way out by impuning the character of the person who brought the truth to light?\*\* As I’ve said, O’Reilly could have handled things better by making a brief correction on his television program. I hardly think the garment-rending stuff you describe is necessary. Newspapers don’t do that in their correction section, after all. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/13edae/32.png) [@Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Cheatem_Undhow)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2003, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oreilly-and-al-franken-in-steel-cage-match-on-c-span/179239/63 "2003-06-04T14:37:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Gorsnak \* > \*\*This isn’t hypertechnical parsing, Dewey. O’Reilly is in essence lying on his resume, and I don’t believe for a second that his wording isn’t chosen precisely so that he could try to weasel his way out of the lie using precisely the argument you’re giving. \*\* I disagree, because of the context in which O’Reilly would flag the Polk award. It was always brought up in response to criticisms of his former show, as a demonstration that his former show was a quality program. I’ve never heard O’Reilly bringing up the award in response to criticisms that _he, himself_ was a poor journalist. ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2003, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oreilly-and-al-franken-in-steel-cage-match-on-c-span/179239/64 "2003-06-04T14:46:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Dewey Cheatem Undhow \* > \*\*As I’ve said, O’Reilly could have handled things better by making a brief correction on his television program. I hardly think the garment-rending stuff you describe is necessary. Newspapers don’t do that in their correction section, after all. \*\* ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/13edae/32.png) [@Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Cheatem_Undhow)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2003, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oreilly-and-al-franken-in-steel-cage-match-on-c-span/179239/65 "2003-06-04T15:11:37Z")
Yeah, I agree with that last post **quietman1920**. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2003, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oreilly-and-al-franken-in-steel-cage-match-on-c-span/179239/66 "2003-06-04T15:12:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Dewey Cheatem Undhow \* > \*\*I disagree, because of the context in which O’Reilly would flag the Polk award. It was always brought up in response to criticisms of his former show, as a demonstration that his former show was a quality program. I’ve never heard O’Reilly bringing up the award in response to criticisms that _he, himself_ was a poor journalist. \*\* I’ve seen him bring it up more than once in response to being called a “tabloid” journalist. He’s used that “we won two peabodys” line several times on the air. It wasn’t just once, and he was clearly trying to imply that had personally had some hand in winning the awards. Even if the show did win awards, that doesn’t mean O’Reilly _wasn’t_ a tabloid journalist or that he got his start by digging through celebrity garbage cans. He certainly never tried to _dissuade_ any false perception that he was an “award winning” journalist before he was called on it. ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2003, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oreilly-and-al-franken-in-steel-cage-match-on-c-span/179239/67 "2003-06-04T15:13:44Z")
prior post was sent in error. I take full responsibility for pushing the submit repy buttom before the response was ready. ---
**Author:** ![Linty\_Fresh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Linty\_Fresh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Linty_Fresh)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2003, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oreilly-and-al-franken-in-steel-cage-match-on-c-span/179239/68 "2003-06-04T15:44:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SkipMagic \* > \*\*No sin there, if you ask me. Chopra’s a [plagiarizing](http://www.trancenet.org/chopra/news/plagmemo.shtml) dick in addition to being a bottle of warmed-over smegma for all the pseudo-scientific Ayurvedic “medicine” crap he peddles on a constant basis. \*\* That’s not the point, **Skip**. Had Franken taken Chopra to task over the above, I wouldn’t have a problem with it. The point is that Franken pitched a fit because Chopra criticized him, and printed innuendo and personal bullshit. He cheerfully admitted as much in the book. Like I said: He’s a dangerous person to have around you. ---
**Author:** ![Linty\_Fresh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Linty\_Fresh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Linty_Fresh)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2003, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oreilly-and-al-franken-in-steel-cage-match-on-c-span/179239/69 "2003-06-04T15:46:04Z")
Sigh, and let me just correct my post and point out that _Franken_, not Chopra, printed innuendo and personal bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![SkipMagic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skipmagic/32/20706_2.png) [@SkipMagic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SkipMagic)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2003, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oreilly-and-al-franken-in-steel-cage-match-on-c-span/179239/70 "2003-06-04T15:46:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by quietman1920 \* > \*\*prior post was sent in error. I take full responsibility for pushing the submit repy buttom before the response was ready. \*\* If anyone was trying to submit _anything_ to MY “buttom”, I wouldn’t be taking responsibility at all! I’d be yelling out, “Dirty pool! That’s dirty pool, Man!” 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/13edae/32.png) [@Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Cheatem_Undhow)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2003, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oreilly-and-al-franken-in-steel-cage-match-on-c-span/179239/71 "2003-06-04T15:50:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by quietman1920 \* > \*\*I take full responsibility for pushing the submit repy buttom before the response was ready. \*\* And let me tell you, the consequences are a _bitch_. Faulty posting just isn’t tolerated around here. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2003, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oreilly-and-al-franken-in-steel-cage-match-on-c-span/179239/72 "2003-06-04T15:51:10Z")
Typos too. I was trying to do work at the same time(my bad). But Honor demands I own up to it, and I have. ---
**Author:** ![SkipMagic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skipmagic/32/20706_2.png) [@SkipMagic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SkipMagic)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2003, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oreilly-and-al-franken-in-steel-cage-match-on-c-span/179239/73 "2003-06-04T16:01:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Linty Fresh \* > \*\*That’s not the point, **Skip**. Had Franken taken Chopra to task over the above, I wouldn’t have a problem with it. The point is that Franken pitched a fit because Chopra criticized him, and printed innuendo and personal bullshit. He cheerfully admitted as much in the book. > > Like I said: He’s a dangerous person to have around you. \*\* And if you had pointed out an instance where Franken had done the same thing to a person who _doesn’t_ medically mislead a sizeable number of the public by offering up lies and misinformation about his fantastical, magical Ayurvedic blathering, then yeah–I’d agree with you. However, since Chopra _does_ promulgate pseudo-science in the same “I irresponsibly make up as much medical-sounding swill as possible and sell it to the public for a profit” manner that [Robert Barefoot](http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/DSH/coral.html) does, I don’t see Franken’s actions as sin-worthy. I understand what you’re saying; I just disagree about the severity because Chopra is the “victim” here, that’s all. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/13edae/32.png) [@Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Cheatem_Undhow)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2003, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oreilly-and-al-franken-in-steel-cage-match-on-c-span/179239/74 "2003-06-04T16:07:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > \*\*I’ve seen him bring it up more than once in response to being called a “tabloid” journalist. He’s used that “we won two peabodys” line several times on the air. It wasn’t just once, and he was clearly trying to imply that had personally had some hand in winning the awards. \*\* Suffice it to say our recollections are simply different, although I admittedly don’t watch O’Reilly very often. FWIW, the quotes at the FAIR website are consonant with the notion that he was referring to the program and not himself personally. Given that FAIR has a vested interest in putting up the most damning quotes possible, I really think you need a citation to the transcripts.\*\* > [@](#): > > Even if the show did win awards, that doesn’t mean O’Reilly _wasn’t_ a tabloid journalist or that he got his start by digging through celebrity garbage cans. \*\* Of course not. That’s a perfectly legitimate point. It is a perfectly sensible retort to say “sure, Mr. O’Reilly, _Inside Edition_ has periodically done good work, but the stories _you_ were associated with were of a tabloid nature.” Again, I’m not an O’Reilly fan. Indeed, I think “tabloid journalist” is an appropriate moniker for him. I just think this silly jihad Franken is waging over the Polk/Peabody award is quite foolish. ---
**Author:** ![Spavined\_Gelding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@Spavined\_Gelding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spavined_Gelding)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2003, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oreilly-and-al-franken-in-steel-cage-match-on-c-span/179239/75 "2003-06-04T19:18:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Dewey Cheatem Undhow \* > \*\* > Again, I’m not an O’Reilly fan. Indeed, I think “tabloid journalist” is an appropriate moniker for him. I just think this silly jihad Franken is waging over the Polk/Peabody award is quite foolish. \*\* Come on now, Friend O’Reilly has been handing out balderdash and part truth of a good many years now and there is a fair piece of the public that thinks his sputum is the touch stone of government, politics and public life. When he falsifies facts, as opposed to dispensing unfounded opinion, he needs to be called on it, no matter who does it. To insist that O’Reilly is entitled to the level of civility and decorum he denies the people who fall within his sights is to afford him a privileged position to which he is just not entitled. Them what lives by the sword…. When Franken gets too full of himself he will get the same treatment, and deservedly so. There is a long list of political humorists who will sooner or later be hoisted on their own petard just as soon as they start regarding themselves as the exclusive guardians of truth and the American way. P.J. O’Rourk is not the least of these nor are O’Reilly and Franken the first in line. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/13edae/32.png) [@Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Cheatem_Undhow)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2003, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oreilly-and-al-franken-in-steel-cage-match-on-c-span/179239/76 "2003-06-04T20:12:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Spavined Gelding \* > **To insist that O’Reilly is entitled to the level of civility and decorum he denies the people who fall within his sights is to afford him a privileged position to which he is just not entitled.** Ah, the “two wrongs make a right” defense. How novel. \*\* > [@](#): > > There is a long list of political humorists who will sooner or later be hoisted on their own petard just as soon as they start regarding themselves as the exclusive guardians of truth and the American way. P.J. O’Rourk is not the least of these nor are O’Reilly and Franken the first in line. \*\* What the hell is your problem with P.J. O’Rourke? ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2003, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oreilly-and-al-franken-in-steel-cage-match-on-c-span/179239/77 "2003-06-04T21:37:27Z")
Well, for starters… he’s not funny! ---
**Author:** ![capacitor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e47774/32.png) [@capacitor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capacitor)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2003, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oreilly-and-al-franken-in-steel-cage-match-on-c-span/179239/78 "2003-06-04T21:55:00Z")
Bill O’Reily is using a corked toungue. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/13edae/32.png) [@Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Cheatem_Undhow)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2003, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oreilly-and-al-franken-in-steel-cage-match-on-c-span/179239/79 "2003-06-04T22:31:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by dantheman \* > \*\*Well, for starters… he’s not funny! \*\* Read _Parliament of Whores_ and get back to me. ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2003, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oreilly-and-al-franken-in-steel-cage-match-on-c-span/179239/80 "2003-06-04T22:44:12Z")
Is it any different from his Rolling Stone articles? If so, no. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oreilly-and-al-franken-in-steel-cage-match-on-c-span/179239.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oreilly-and-al-franken-in-steel-cage-match-on-c-span/179239.md?page=5)