# Bill O'Reilly: Christianity not a religion **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 30, 2012, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oreilly-christianity-not-a-religion/642548 "2012-11-30T06:56:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2012, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oreilly-christianity-not-a-religion/642548/81 "2012-12-04T01:13:02Z")
> [@Learjeff](#): > > Not much intelligence on display on either side, in that particular battle. But I’ve heard him speak intelligently, and I liked his book “Killing Lincoln”, which I think hit its mark very well (intending to read more like a thriller and less like a historical tome). [url=]Just don’t read it for historical accuracy. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2012, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oreilly-christianity-not-a-religion/642548/82 "2012-12-04T01:40:58Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > [Partial transcript](http://maddowblog.msnbc.com/_news/2012/12/01/15597368-this-week-in-god?lite) of Billo’s remarks, courtesy of Steve Benen: > > Sounds like something a deist Unitarian with an attitude would say. Is he actually trying to imply that Muslims are actually Christians because they regard Jesus as a prophet?!? ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2012, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oreilly-christianity-not-a-religion/642548/83 "2012-12-04T01:56:51Z")
> [@Bill O'Reilly](#): > > Christianity is not an organized religion… Christianity is a philosophy. You don’t have to believe Jesus is God in order to admire his view on life. > > Millions of Muslims admire Jesus as a prophet. In fact the United States was founded on Judeo-Christian philosophy, that’s what shaped our constitutional tenets. Again if you are stone-cold dumb and don’t understand the difference between an organized church and a philosophy, I cannot help you. First off, this nonsense is all part of the annual “War on Christmas”, yes? To the extent Christmas in the United States is anything more than a thoroughly secularized Winter Holiday and Feast of Consumerism, it’s a Christian mass celebrating the alleged _virgin birth_ of Jesus, in which he was supposedly miraculously conceived by the divine intervention of the Holy Ghost upon a virgin, complete with various other signs and miracles (e.g., visitations from the Archangel Gabriel, the Star of Bethlehem, etc.). All of which has jack-all to do with admiring Jesus of Nazareth as a great philosophical teacher, and everything to do with the _religion_ of Christianity which proclaims Jesus to be the Christ and the Son of God. _“In fact the United States was founded on Judeo-Christian philosophy, that’s what shaped our constitutional tenets”_ And what Judeo-Christian tenets are we talking about here? [That government derives its powers from the people, who have the right to alter or abolish any form of government when they deem it prudent?](http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans%2013:1-7&version=NIV) [Free exercise of religion?](http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=deuteronomy%2013&version=NIV) [The abolition of slavery?](http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Colossians%203:22-25&version=NIV) [Equal rights for women?](http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Timothy%202:11-15&version=NIV) [Separation of powers?](http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah+33:22&version=NIV) (Certain fundies love that one, even though of course it says the exact _opposite_ of separation of powers.) ---
**Author:** ![Learjeff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/94ad74/32.png) [@Learjeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Learjeff)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2012, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oreilly-christianity-not-a-religion/642548/84 "2012-12-04T03:40:38Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > If it sets atheists back a decade every time someone supposedly attacks Christmas, there shouldn’t be any progress. My point is that your comment is total hyperbole (and it does blame the wrong person). OK, guilty as charged (hyperbole). But not for blaming the wrong person; people like Silver do more harm than good. > [@Frylock](#): > > [url=]Just don’t read it for historical accuracy. Did you mean to post a link? ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2012, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oreilly-christianity-not-a-religion/642548/85 "2012-12-04T06:16:51Z")
> [@MEBuckner](#): > > … it’s a Christian mass celebrating the alleged _virgin birth_ of Jesus, in which he was supposedly miraculously conceived by the divine intervention of the Holy Ghost upon a virgin, complete with various other signs and miracles (e.g., visitations from the Archangel Gabriel, the Star of Bethlehem, etc.)… Curious thing about this is that biblical scholars tend to agree that the text strongly suggests Jesus was born in September. So what is Christmas, some kind of fucking party for the conception? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2012, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oreilly-christianity-not-a-religion/642548/86 "2012-12-04T06:36:52Z")
> [@For You](#): > > Curious thing about this is that biblical scholars tend to agree that the text strongly suggests Jesus was born in September. So what is Christmas, some kind of fucking party for the conception? Christmas is a celebration of the first day Jesus was old enough to be left with a sitter so that Joseph and Mary could go out for a night on the town. “Mary, Christ must learn that we can’t be with him twenty four hours a day” was abbreviated over the centuries to “Merry Christmas”. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2012, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oreilly-christianity-not-a-religion/642548/87 "2012-12-04T07:03:16Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > I want to know what the secular support for the reality of karma is supposed to be. Karma has a number of aspects. One is common sense causality: commit a crime and get caught and you will do time. The deeper one involves habit formation. If you shoplift once, the odds that you will shoplift (again) within the next month or year go up. Lifestyles can be built with one bad (or good) habit at a time. Separately, if you are a mean person, that will have consequences, not all of them obvious to the perpetrator. Another aspect of karma is that across the bizzillion lives _any_ deed will have offsetting consequences. That’s the supernatural part. I’m not trying to deny that component exists: rather I’m saying that there’s a _mechanical_ flavor to the doctrine of karma that has a pretty secular feel to it. ---
**Author:** ![fumster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fumster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fumster)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2012, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oreilly-christianity-not-a-religion/642548/88 "2012-12-04T16:12:04Z")
The irony, is that to the degree the US was founded on Christian principles, they were Protestant principles. Unlike the Catholics, Protestants looked directly to the Bible and didn’t see they needed to have someone in between themselves and God to interpret it. Roman Catholic Masses were said in Latin which re-enforced the distinction between those in authority. Catholicism had the idea of a direct lineage of priests that originally got their authority from Paul. This is akin to the divine rights of Kings that the colonies specifically broke away from. New England Town Meetings are similar to Quaker prayer meetings. American values of thrift and hard work are very Calvinistic. It was many years after the start of the country before Roman Catholics arrived in large enough numbers to have an affect on American values. We could have had a country that had less separation between church and state and made it more difficult for Roman Catholics to practice their religion, but our distinctly American values allowed the church that Bill O’Reilly grew up in to thrive. He should shut the fuck up. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2012, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oreilly-christianity-not-a-religion/642548/89 "2012-12-04T16:23:58Z")
> [@fumster](#): > > He should shut the fuck up. He didn’t get rich by offering reasoned opinions and letting other people talk. ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2012, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oreilly-christianity-not-a-religion/642548/90 "2012-12-04T17:45:26Z")
> [@fumster](#): > > Catholicism had the idea of a direct lineage of priests that originally got their authority from Paul. The original 12 apostles, actually, especially Peter. Paul wasn’t one of them, and would have had to have been ordained a bishop by one of them, or one of their successor bishops to have any part in the apostolic succession, at all. [/minor nitpick] ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2012, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oreilly-christianity-not-a-religion/642548/91 "2012-12-04T17:51:06Z")
> [@For You](#): > > Curious thing about this is that biblical scholars tend to agree that the text strongly suggests Jesus was born in September. So what is Christmas, some kind of fucking party for the conception? I don’t think God was supposed to use that method, though I can definitely get behind a fucking party for almost any occasion. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2012, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oreilly-christianity-not-a-religion/642548/92 "2012-12-04T17:58:21Z")
> [@fumster](#): > > Catholicism had the idea of a direct lineage of priests that originally got their authority from Paul. This is akin to the divine rights of Kings that the colonies specifically broke away from. The principle of apostolic succession is not limited to the Catholic Church or incompatible with Protestant doctrine. The Anglican/Episcopal church, several Lutheran sects, and the Methodist church all have or had it as part of their dogma. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2012, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oreilly-christianity-not-a-religion/642548/93 "2012-12-04T19:52:10Z")
He’s just trying to get the best of both worlds. He knows the US isn’t going to restrict Christianity in any significant way, and claiming its a philosophy opens it up to be government promoted. What a douchebag ---
**Author:** ![Yumblie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/76d3ee/32.png) [@Yumblie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yumblie)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2012, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oreilly-christianity-not-a-religion/642548/94 "2012-12-04T22:02:09Z")
> [@fumster](#): > > Or maybe it’s a Pagan holiday and the degree to which it has been stripped of its religious meaning is kind of a bellwether of the general diluting of Paganism. I like to think that in the Christmas Wars trilogy, we’re now at Return of the Pagans. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2012, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oreilly-christianity-not-a-religion/642548/95 "2012-12-05T13:03:06Z")
> [@fumster](#): > > The irony, is that to the degree the US was founded on Christian principles, they were Protestant principles. Unlike the Catholics, Protestants looked directly to the Bible and didn’t see they needed to have someone in between themselves and God to interpret it. Roman Catholic Masses were said in Latin which re-enforced the distinction between those in authority. Catholicism had the idea of a direct lineage of priests that originally got their authority from Paul. This is akin to the divine rights of Kings that the colonies specifically broke away from. > > New England Town Meetings are similar to Quaker prayer meetings. American values of thrift and hard work are very Calvinistic. It was many years after the start of the country before Roman Catholics arrived in large enough numbers to have an affect on American values. > > We could have had a country that had less separation between church and state and made it more difficult for Roman Catholics to practice their religion, but our distinctly American values allowed the church that Bill O’Reilly grew up in to thrive. He should shut the fuck up. Since the Bble was taught to be the word of God by the early bishops of the RC and Orthodox churches, after Constine’s time, then, if one takes the Bible to be the word of God they are then believing in the Bishops, who used the bible for 700 years as such until the split with the Orthodox church. They also were responsible for stating that it was inspired by God, and many people belive in those humans! ---
**Author:** ![fumster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fumster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fumster)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2012, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oreilly-christianity-not-a-religion/642548/96 "2012-12-05T16:35:36Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > Since the Bble was taught to be the word of God by the early bishops of the RC and Orthodox churches, after Constine’s time, then, if one takes the Bible to be the word of God they are then believing in the Bishops, who used the bible for 700 years as such until the split with the Orthodox church. They also were responsible for stating that it was inspired by God, and many people belive in those humans! And yet there is not a single word in the Bible that describes the papacy, the prohibition against women being priests, the requirement for priest to be celibate, the idea that masses should be in a language that attendees don’t understand, the concept of saints, or any number of other things that are/were part of RC beliefs. ---
**Author:** ![FlyingDragonFan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c89c15/32.png) [@FlyingDragonFan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlyingDragonFan)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2012, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oreilly-christianity-not-a-religion/642548/97 "2012-12-05T17:01:20Z")
John Stewart (who is Jewish) did a great bit on this nonsense on Monday’s show. Paraphrasing, he basically said, “Sure, Jesus has lots of great stuff. Turning the cheeks, loving your neighbor, I can get behind all that. But when I die, I’m still f\*\*cked! THAT makes it a religion.” ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2012, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oreilly-christianity-not-a-religion/642548/98 "2012-12-05T17:10:57Z")
> [@fumster](#): > > And yet there is not a single word in the Bible that describes the papacy, the prohibition against women being priests, the requirement for priest to be celibate, the idea that masses should be in a language that attendees don’t understand, the concept of saints, or any number of other things that are/were part of RC beliefs. That’s because what you’ve got is the streamlined end user edition of the Bible. The RCC of course have access to the server-side Bible (Bible Professional®) which comes with more features: an integrated help system + direct phone assistance, 64-Commandments extension, remote beatification support, encrypting Mass system etc… ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2012, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oreilly-christianity-not-a-religion/642548/99 "2012-12-05T17:59:49Z")
> [@For You](#): > > This is a very risky strategery. If christianity is not a religion, the government could, at least in theory, promote it without running afoul of the Establishent Clause in Amendment I. On the other hand, tax laws would have to be revised to include philosophical institutions and prime philosophers so that what used to be churches can retain their tax exemption. Why? Churches are businesses; I think they should pay property taxes, etc., right along with the rest of us. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2012, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oreilly-christianity-not-a-religion/642548/100 "2012-12-05T18:03:38Z")
The “rest of us” who are secular non-profit groups are also tax exempt. It’s certainly true that any number of church leaders abuse their tax status to enhance their personal wealth, but that’s true of charities too. I think the only difference is that people are more willing to hold secular NFPs accountable. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oreilly-christianity-not-a-religion/642548.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oreilly-christianity-not-a-religion/642548.md?page=6)