# Bill O'Reilly, Taxes and Medicare...Left, Right, Center...What is the best plan? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 4, 2003, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oreilly-taxes-and-medicare-left-right-center-what-is-the-best-plan/216830 "2003-12-04T00:28:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2003, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oreilly-taxes-and-medicare-left-right-center-what-is-the-best-plan/216830/21 "2003-12-05T00:21:50Z")
Another thing **Debaser** , O’Reilly registered to vote as a Republican only a short time before he started his show on Fox. He didn’t forget and it wasn’t a “mistake.” (how does one “mistakenly” register as a Republican anyway?) He fucking lied and he got busted on it. The interview with the 9/11 victim consisted only of O’Reilly lying about the other guy’s position (O’Reilly lyingly accused him of saying that Bush was implicit in 9/11. He said no such thing. He merely mentioned the FACT that Bush Sr. had supported bin Laden and helped to create the Taliban government in the 80’s). O’Reilly couldn’t handle the truth so he screamed at the guy and called him names instead. He also threatened the guy with violence during the break. Everyone on O-lie-ly’s staff apologized to the guy as he was leaving. The guy is a fucking liar, a windbag and a demagogue. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2003, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oreilly-taxes-and-medicare-left-right-center-what-is-the-best-plan/216830/22 "2003-12-05T00:35:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Debaser \* > O’Reilly said he was always a registered independant. It turns out he was registered at one point as a republican. He claims he didn’t remember doing this, or did it as a mistake. > > Why not believe him? It’s easy enough to check, so if he were lying he would know it would come out. It has come out – **Lies and the Lying Liars…** includes a photocopy of O’Reilly’s voter registration form, with the Republican party affiliation box checked. > [@](#): > > To which even the left wing spinsanity site admits: Okay, time to categorize you in the “kooky conservative” bin there. Considering Spinsanity has no qualms about dinging lefty pundits and Democratic politicians when they step out of line (take their search engine for a spin), your allegations of bias are unfounded. > [@](#): > > **WantaghDem** is an unregistered, anonymous user on a message board. A cite his post does not make. Are you saying his transcript is incorrect? Or are you merely attacking the messenger (again) because you don’t have anything more substantial to respond with? > [@](#): > > I get enough left wing factless spew from the SDMB, without seeking more of it out. And people wonder why the fight against ignorance is taking so long… ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2003, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oreilly-taxes-and-medicare-left-right-center-what-is-the-best-plan/216830/23 "2003-12-05T00:35:23Z")
**DtC** : As much as hate to do this, I somehow can’t help myself… If we accept that O’Reilly is a “fucking liar”, then don’t we also have to accept that Clinton is “fucking liar” (no pun intended)? “I tried it once, but I didn’t inhale…” “I did not have sex with that woman…” “It depends on what the meaning of is is…” ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2003, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oreilly-taxes-and-medicare-left-right-center-what-is-the-best-plan/216830/24 "2003-12-05T00:51:41Z")
All three of those are more like examples of parsimonious hair-splitting than outright lying, but yes, of course Clinton was a fucking liar. All politicians are liars. How does that mitigate O’Reilly’s lies? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2003, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oreilly-taxes-and-medicare-left-right-center-what-is-the-best-plan/216830/25 "2003-12-05T01:14:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > \*\*All three of those are more like examples of parsimonious hair-splitting than outright lying, but yes, of course Clinton was a fucking liar. All politicians are liars. > > How does that mitigate O’Reilly’s lies? \*\* Just wanted to clear that up. Hey, I’m not really a fan of O’Reilly, so I’m not all that interested in defending him. If he comes out with a position on something, I judge that position on its own merits. And I recognize that he’s a news analyst (not a news reporter) who is also trying to be an entertainer. On the Coulter/Buckley scale of conservative commentators, with AC=0 and WFB=10, I’d put O’Reilly at about a 6. Purely a subjective rating based on having seen a fair bit of all 3 of these folks. But O’Reilly seems to garner hatred as much for his popularity as for his actual beliefs. At any rate, he gets some interesting people on his show, and I watch it from time to time. I find I disagree with him frequently, but not because I think he’s lying, he just has a different point of view. FWIW, I actually used to like Donohue’s show a lot better, but he apparently couldn’t hack it against The Factor time slot. _Vox populi vox dei_.🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2003, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oreilly-taxes-and-medicare-left-right-center-what-is-the-best-plan/216830/26 "2003-12-05T02:11:00Z")
“No spin” only applies to O’Reily’s guests, not O’Reily, and only when he feels like it. O’Reily’s opinions are heavily laden with as much spin, distotion, and off the topic disgression as he feels necessary. Which is fine, cus its his show. And he’s not anywhere near as much a ideologue as some: he’s more out for his own point of view, rather than unequivocally taking on whatever position or principle happens to suit the Republican party today. He definately is nowhere near as hard on his conservative Republican guests as he is on Democrats and liberals: just a bit ago Dick Morris repeated the same false claim about Hillary talking to the troops, and O’Reily sort of offhanded kept correcting him on the lie, but eventually lost interest and just let it go. A liberal would have been screamed off stage if they had pulled something like that. ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2003, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oreilly-taxes-and-medicare-left-right-center-what-is-the-best-plan/216830/27 "2003-12-05T03:33:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by John Mace \* > “I tried it once, but I didn’t inhale…” > > “I did not have sex with that woman…” > > “It depends on what the meaning of is is…” Boy, **John** , you make for nostalgic for the good-ol’ days when our President was merely a womanizer who lied about his sex life and drugs. Now we have one who lies and deceives about policy **constantly**! Three years of Bush, and now people like Clinton and Gore, who I never did care for all that much, seem fuckin’ brilliant and noble by comparison. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2003, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oreilly-taxes-and-medicare-left-right-center-what-is-the-best-plan/216830/28 "2003-12-05T14:14:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by rjung \* > It has come out – **Lies and the Lying Liars…** includes a photocopy of O’Reilly’s voter registration form, with the Republican party affiliation box checked. This fact is not in dispute. Why do you bring it up again? It’s just more likely that O’Reilly was simply mistaken on this question and not lying. Like I said, he knew that people could and would check up on this. So, it doesn’t make sense to lie about it. In either case, it’s the only example you have come up with where he actually said something that is factually incorrect. It’s also from before he even had a television show. If O’Reilly is such a lying liar, why can’t you find something from say, this decade? Or how about from this year? If there were an army of web sites looking for the slightest factual error from Tom Brokaw or Dan Rather, they would find something simply due to the amount that these people are on the air. They are bound to slip up sometimes. > [@](#): > > Okay, time to categorize you in the “kooky conservative” bin there. Considering Spinsanity has no qualms about dinging lefty pundits and Democratic politicians when they step out of line (take their search engine for a spin), your allegations of bias are unfounded. Anybody who disagrees with you gets to go to the “kooky conservative” bin? Geez, I guess I should start voting conservative, or even register as a republican. :rolleyes: > [@](#): > > Are you saying his transcript is incorrect? Or are you merely attacking the messenger (again) because you don’t have anything more substantial to respond with? I can’t believe you are actually defending this. A post on another message board is not a cite. It may or not be an accurate transcript, but I’m not going to respond to something that I have no reason at all to believe to be true. ---
**Author:** ![aahala](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a88e4f/32.png) [@aahala](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aahala)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2003, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oreilly-taxes-and-medicare-left-right-center-what-is-the-best-plan/216830/29 "2003-12-05T14:25:00Z")
rjung, shame on you for calling O’Reilly a liar. For him to be a liar, he must know the truth. I’ve seen and heard nothing from his public utterances that would support such a claim. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2003, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oreilly-taxes-and-medicare-left-right-center-what-is-the-best-plan/216830/30 "2003-12-05T14:28:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jshore \* > Oh come on…That is ridiculous. The whole point of O’Reilly’s claim was to show that there was liberal media bias in these hard news stories. Are these reporters not allowed to quote other people? Did O’Reilly demonstrate that these quotes were attributed in a way that made it sound like the news reporter agreed with the characterization? What if they were writing a story on the decay of current political discourse into namecalling…Do they have to do it without any examples? If you honestly believe that every time a news story refers to O’Reilly with insults they are doing a story on the decay of political discourse than I have a bridge you might be interested in buying. It’s interesting but after reading this thread, I watched O’Reilly last night. His talking points memo was about the move [“The Cat in the Hat”.](http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,104932,00.html) O’Reilly says he hasn’t and won’t watch the movie himself. But he uses quotes from critics to attack it. > [@](#): > > C.W. Nevius, a film critic for The San Francisco Chronicle writes, “We are already hearing from parents who were shocked and dismayed to see Mike Myers’ character mouthing profanity, making crude jokes and dropping in on a rave.” > > Entertainment Weekly’s Owen Gleiberman says watching the movie is “a hellish experience.” Of course reporters are allowed to quote other people. But, any time you quote insults about someone it’s safe to say that you agree with them. O’Reilly was using negative quotes about the Mike Myers movie because he has a problem with it. Mainstream or “old” news sources use negative quotes about O’Reilly because they have a problem with him. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2003, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oreilly-taxes-and-medicare-left-right-center-what-is-the-best-plan/216830/31 "2003-12-05T14:38:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > The guy is a fucking liar, a windbag and a demagogue. I guess the part that makes me so attracted to these O’Reilly bashing threads is this attitude. O’Reilly is clearly not a liar. The only examples of lying are his registering as a republican and mistaking a peobody award for a polk. They are both obviously mistakes on his part and not lies. They are both many years ago and before he even had a show. If O’Reilly was as much a liar as people on the SDMB say, it would be easy to find numerous examples of him lying from recent statements. Seeing the liberals foam at the mouth over O’Reilly is odd to me, mostly because you won’t admit your reasoning. Although he calls every issue as he sees it, O’Reilly is somewhat right of center in his analysis. He is also extremely successful and popular. This is why you hate him. He’s not liberal and his viewers love him for it. Why can’t you admit that? It will feel good, I promise. Look, I’ll even start. I don’t like Al Franken because he’s liberal. His books might actually be very amusing. But, I’m not going to read them. I do think he is a coward for hiding behind satire when he attacks his opponents. But, I would overlook this if he were a conservative and probably love him for it. It’s because of his politics that I can’t stand the guy. If you really think that O’Reilly is a demagogue then you are hopelessly out of touch with most Americans. Because most American’s agree with O’Reilly. ---
**Author:** ![BJMoose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5fc32e/32.png) [@BJMoose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BJMoose)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2003, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oreilly-taxes-and-medicare-left-right-center-what-is-the-best-plan/216830/32 "2003-12-05T15:15:49Z")
Now _there’s_ a bald assertion we can’t let pass. What is your source for the claim that “most American’s [_sic_] agree with O’Reilly”? Besides Bill himself. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2003, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oreilly-taxes-and-medicare-left-right-center-what-is-the-best-plan/216830/33 "2003-12-05T16:09:04Z")
He is the most watched program on cable news. People wouldn’t watch unless they liked what they hear. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2003, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oreilly-taxes-and-medicare-left-right-center-what-is-the-best-plan/216830/34 "2003-12-05T16:26:10Z")
That’s really not much of a claim, **Debaser**. Cable news draws a pretty small audience, relatively speaking. O’Reilly averages something like 2 million viewers a night these days. In country with a population of upwards of 250 million that means that his audience consists of less than one percent of all Americans. That’s hardly a number which would suggest that “most” Americans agree with him. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2003, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oreilly-taxes-and-medicare-left-right-center-what-is-the-best-plan/216830/35 "2003-12-05T16:56:14Z")
Well, I’ll retract the claim and restate: IMO, most American’s agree with O’Reilly on his general outlook. It’s impossible to prove one way or the other, so I won’t attempt to prove it factually. But, it is my opinion, and I stand by it. The fact that cable news is a smaller viewership than the networks doesn’t mean they aren’t representative. Cable news viewers, unlike many network viewers have many channels to choose from. O’Reilly and FOX are more watched than the other cable news outlets. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2003, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oreilly-taxes-and-medicare-left-right-center-what-is-the-best-plan/216830/36 "2003-12-05T16:59:50Z")
It’s hard to tell whether or not most Americans agree with O’Reilly, but if you look at the last election, it would appear that we’re pretty evenly split, with a slight edge to the “disagree with O’Reilly” camp. After all, Gore did win the popular vote, and O’Reilly clearly favored Bush for president. Of course that could flip the other way a year from now, too. Still, he’s a force to be reckoned with in Cable News. No one seems to be able to survive in the time slot opposite his on the other cable stations. And quite a few have tried! ---
**Author:** ![spectrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc29f/32.png) [@spectrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spectrum)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2003, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oreilly-taxes-and-medicare-left-right-center-what-is-the-best-plan/216830/37 "2003-12-05T17:06:24Z")
Most Americans don’t have cable, Debaser. That doesn’t prove jack. ---
**Author:** ![spectrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc29f/32.png) [@spectrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spectrum)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2003, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oreilly-taxes-and-medicare-left-right-center-what-is-the-best-plan/216830/38 "2003-12-05T17:08:47Z")
My problem with O’Reilly is that he’s so brazenly biased. He cuts off liberal guests, won’t let them make their points, twists what they say, and is generally rude to them. But then he turns around and is all deferential to conservatives, supportive of them, lets them talk. His fluff piece interview with Bush in 2000 was basically an open mic for the President. Do you really think he’d let Hillary Clinton or Howard Dean get a word in edgewise? No, he’d berate them, just like he does everyone else he disagrees with. ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2003, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oreilly-taxes-and-medicare-left-right-center-what-is-the-best-plan/216830/39 "2003-12-05T17:18:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Debaser \* > Of course reporters are allowed to quote other people. But, any time you quote insults about someone it’s safe to say that you agree with them. Fascinating, I never knew this law. And to think, as just one example, of all those pro-Bush (Sr.) reporters who (apparently approvingly) quoted Bush back in '92 (as the election approached and he became increasing desperate) derisively calling then vice-Presidential candidate Al Gore “Ozone-Man”. I had no idea that those folks were all pro-Bush. I thought they were just reporting the news. [In my view, it wasn’t until 2000 that the campaign press core showed Bush (Jr) over Gore sympathies…And, I think the theory that this was true more for reasons of personality and such than political philosphy is probably true.] Actually, why don’t you check out your theory by going to the “news” option on google, typing in things like “O’Reilly windbag”, “O’Reilly liar”, “O’Reilly bully” and see what comes up. I just did that and what I found (from an admittedly quick perusal) is most of the things were either opinion pieces or news pieces in which there was no evidence the reporter agreed with the views. The closest I could get to what you are claiming is a couple of cases where student newspapers were reporting Al Franken’s book tour at their campus and one could make an educated guess from the article that the reporter was sympathetic to Franken’s message. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2003, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oreilly-taxes-and-medicare-left-right-center-what-is-the-best-plan/216830/40 "2003-12-05T17:19:37Z")
**spectrum** : I don’t know. He has Al Sharpton on his show all the time. I’ve never seen him go postal while Al was on. Same thing with Lieberman (although he hasn’t been on as much as Sharpton). You’ve got a point, though, about how he does not berate conservative guests. I saw his interview with Coulter, and although he did give her a hard time about how she is just too over the top in her personal attacks on liberals, be did it in a very civil tone, never once yelling at her. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oreilly-taxes-and-medicare-left-right-center-what-is-the-best-plan/216830.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bill-oreilly-taxes-and-medicare-left-right-center-what-is-the-best-plan/216830.md?page=3)