# Billing as "MISS...." **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 6, 2019, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billing-as-miss/836623 "2019-07-06T13:46:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Carryon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc29f/32.png) [@Carryon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carryon)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2019, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billing-as-miss/836623/1 "2019-07-06T13:46:02Z")
I was watching an episode of “the Big Valley” and Barbara Stanwyck is billed And Also Starring MISS BARBARA STANWYCK as Victoria Barkley I can’t recall seeing another TV show where a woman was billed as MISS. Or even anyone billed as Mr So and So or Mrs So and So. Any other examples you can think of such type of billing. ---
**Author:** ![notfrommensa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f14d63/32.png) [@notfrommensa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/notfrommensa)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2019, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billing-as-miss/836623/2 "2019-07-06T14:29:42Z")
IIRC Michael Learned was billed as Miss Michael Learned on the Waltons, I think to remove the gender ambiguity of her first name ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2019, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billing-as-miss/836623/3 "2019-07-06T14:53:57Z")
“Miss” has long been used as an honorific for a mature woman who may or may not be married (and/or doesn’t want her marital status to be made public). Jane Wyatt (Mr Spock’s mother) was billed that way. The matriarch of the Ewing clan was respectfully addressed as “Miz Ellie” (hey, it was Texas). I’m sure there are other examples, but I can’t think of them right offhand. This practice is of course somewhat dated and is seldom used today. But in other places, something of the sort is still used. In Germany, f’rinstance, a woman of a certain age would be addressed as “Frau” or (even more respectfully) “gnädige Frau.” (At least this is what I was once taught. It may have changed in the interim.) ---
**Author:** ![Oswald\_Bastable](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oswald_bastable/32/214_2.png) [@Oswald\_Bastable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oswald_Bastable)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2019, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billing-as-miss/836623/4 "2019-07-06T14:58:02Z")
Possibly just a theatrical affectation. It was standard for actors to be billed with their titles (Mr, Mrs, Miss) in the theatre up until the early 20th Century. I seem to recall it was also standard in the early days of film as well, until Hollywood and the gossip rags started to make proper stars that we were all meant to see as people we knew. Use of formal titles was of course a lot more prevalent in general. I don’t know anything about Barbara Stanwyck - is it possible she was recently divorced or had some other reason to specify she was not married? OB ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2019, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billing-as-miss/836623/5 "2019-07-06T15:08:13Z")
A quick search shows that “Miss” has been used as an honorific for Olivia deHavilland, Bette Davis, Bette Midler… ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2019, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billing-as-miss/836623/6 "2019-07-06T15:10:32Z")
> [@Oswald\_Bastable](#): > > Possibly just a theatrical affectation. It was standard for actors to be billed with their titles (Mr, Mrs, Miss) in the theatre up until the early 20th Century. _“It’s The Muppet Show! With Our Special Guest Star, Miss…”_ Per IMDB, “Miss Greer Garson” also got billed that way a couple of times. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2019, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billing-as-miss/836623/7 "2019-07-06T15:11:35Z")
> [@Oswald\_Bastable](#): > > I don’t know anything about Barbara Stanwyck - is it possible she was recently divorced or had some other reason to specify she was not married? SFAIK, she was simply a mature woman and accomplished actress, like Jane Wyatt. May I assume you’ve never seen _ **Double Indemnity** _? Back in the day, Barbara was as hot as they come. :o ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2019, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billing-as-miss/836623/8 "2019-07-06T15:30:31Z")
Old time radio shows would often refer to actresses guest starring as “Miss.” It was an affectation of the 30s. The (very sexist/ageist) assumption was that it was a compliment, implying the woman was young. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2019, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billing-as-miss/836623/9 "2019-07-06T15:55:32Z")
Talk about “(very sexist/ageist) assumptions”… we still laugh about the night we saw the legendary Hank Snow on TV, receiving a country music award. \*(Now, keep in mind this was the late 70s, when we thought we’d fought and won the gender equity wars…) \* Well, Ol’ Hank shambled up to the microphone, mentioned his band and the fans, and then drawled: “An’ ah would lahk to thank muh wife, Missus Hank Snow.” ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2019, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billing-as-miss/836623/10 "2019-07-06T15:59:03Z")
Is is possible that “Barbara Stanwyck” was under contract to a different studio, and she had to use a different name to work for ABC? I have heard that musicians often have to use pseudonyms when they change record labels. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2019, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billing-as-miss/836623/11 "2019-07-06T16:04:06Z")
Have male actors/performers been billed as “Mister”? I recall it being used only as an introduction… on old talk shows, back in the Jack Paar/Arthur Godfrey days. Hmm, I think Johnny Carson used it as well: “Ladies and gentlemen, the always entertaining… Misssster… Don Rickles.” But actually billed that way? I can’t think of any. Well, other than the obvious one. The greatest thespian this generation has ever seen, who, like Cher and Madonna, needed no last name… Mister Ed ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2019, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billing-as-miss/836623/12 "2019-07-06T16:07:34Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > _“It’s The Muppet Show! With Our Special Guest Star, Miss…”_ Piggy? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2019, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billing-as-miss/836623/13 "2019-07-06T16:12:19Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > Piggy? …Sandy Duncan, Rita Moreno, Florence Henderson, Cloris Leachman… ---
**Author:** ![Oswald\_Bastable](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oswald_bastable/32/214_2.png) [@Oswald\_Bastable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oswald_Bastable)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2019, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billing-as-miss/836623/14 "2019-07-06T16:28:43Z")
> [@digs](#): > > Have male actors/performers been billed as “Mister”? If you google ‘Victorian playbills’ you’ll find plenty of examples. Here’s one: [https://images.app.goo.gl/5KbzeyraoQXMyjhX8](https://images.app.goo.gl/5KbzeyraoQXMyjhX8) As I said above - it was the norm until the early 20th C but is unusual today. OB ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2019, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billing-as-miss/836623/15 "2019-07-06T16:51:59Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > > [@Oswald\_Bastable](#): > > > > I don’t know anything about Barbara Stanwyck - is it possible she was recently divorced or had some other reason to specify she was not married? > > SFAIK, she was simply a mature woman and accomplished actress, like Jane Wyatt. > > May I assume you’ve never seen _ **Double Indemnity** _? Back in the day, Barbara was as hot as they come. :o Not speaking for Oswald of course, but when I was growing up, The Big Valley was regularly rerun on TV (strangely Bonanza wasn’t rerun in the area nearly as much), so my first exposure to Barbara Stanwyck was as the older, white-haired matriarch on that show. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2019, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billing-as-miss/836623/16 "2019-07-06T17:09:48Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > Old time radio shows would often refer to actresses guest starring as “Miss.” > > It was an affectation of the 30s. The (very sexist/ageist) assumption was that it was a compliment, implying the woman was young. More likely it showed they were famous in their own right. “Miss Lucille Ball” would never, \*ever \*have been introduced as “Mrs Desi Arnaz.” ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2019, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billing-as-miss/836623/17 "2019-07-06T17:14:21Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Not speaking for Oswald of course, but when I was growing up, The Big Valley was regularly rerun on TV (strangely Bonanza wasn’t rerun in the area nearly as much), so my first exposure to Barbara Stanwyck was as the older, white-haired matriarch on that show. I used to watch _ **The Big Valley** _ when I was in sixth or seventh grade. When I finally saw Barbara in some of her earlier movie roles, I found it hard to believe she was the same woman who played Victoria Barkley. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2019, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billing-as-miss/836623/18 "2019-07-06T17:19:47Z")
Keep in mind that “Ms” didn’t appear until the late '60s or early '70s. Before that, you had the choice of “Miss,” “Mrs,” or nothing at all. (In the US, anyway.) I’ve known some mature women who insisted on being addressed as “Miss.” If the intent was to make them seem younger, they weren’t fooling anybody. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2019, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billing-as-miss/836623/19 "2019-07-06T22:26:01Z")
Didn’t \*Falcon Crest \*“Miss treat” Jane Wyman? > [@terentii](#): > > I’ve known some mature women who insisted on being addressed as “Miss.” If the intent was to make them seem younger, they weren’t fooling anybody. Miss firstname was a term of respect in the genteel Old South. It meant, “poor old dear, she’ll die a spinster.” ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2019, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billing-as-miss/836623/20 "2019-07-06T22:37:19Z")
Mister Ed is listed in IMDB as playing Himself, even though his real name was Bamboo Harvester, so his stage name must have been Mister Ed. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billing-as-miss/836623.md?page=2)