# Billionaires, CEOs, "corporations", and capitalism- Are things really different, or is it propaganda? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 22, 2026, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billionaires-ceos-corporations-and-capitalism-are-things-really-different-or-is-it-propaganda/1034073 "2026-10-22T18:34:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2026, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billionaires-ceos-corporations-and-capitalism-are-things-really-different-or-is-it-propaganda/1034073/141 "2026-10-24T21:27:03Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Because they own the company. Their net worth only explodes if the value of the business explodes. For most employees, unless their compensation includes shares of ownership or some other profit-sharing, it is primarily based on the market value of their services. > > Or to put it in a way, let’s say you own a home and you pay a service to cut the lawn every week. If the value of your home doubles for whatever reason, are you obligated to double how much you pay the lawn guy? Wealth inequality has gotten very severe and the wealth created needs to be redistributed better to ensure society can function. Nations are effective at reducing income inequality, but they haven’t yet been successful in reducing wealth inequality. Using taxes and transfers, a wealthy nation can reduce income inequality from 0.5 down to 0.3. But wealth inequality is still about 0.8 in most nations. People who own homes pay property taxes of about 1-2% a year, which is a form of a middle class wealth tax. There is no wealth tax for the truly wealthy. A wealth tax of 2% a year on assets over 50 million is something nations are looking into. To ensure there is no capital flight, there are efforts to make sure major nations all agree to it. If you home doubles in value, you pay more in property taxes. The property taxes pay for things like schools that the lawn guys kids probably go to. There need to be more efforts to ensure the wealth created is distributed better. Too much power in individual hands gives them the ability to affect media, military, politics, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2026, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billionaires-ceos-corporations-and-capitalism-are-things-really-different-or-is-it-propaganda/1034073/142 "2026-10-24T22:00:28Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > And the whole time I’m just like “Dude! Just send your fucking kids to private school like a normal rich person!” Or even better, he should accept that not everything in this world is the way he wants it to be. ---
**Author:** ![Steven\_Maven](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steven_maven/32/3272_2.png) [@Steven\_Maven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steven_Maven)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2026, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billionaires-ceos-corporations-and-capitalism-are-things-really-different-or-is-it-propaganda/1034073/143 "2026-10-24T22:31:06Z")
> [@bump](#): > > billionaires, CEOs, “corporations”, and capitalism. That triumvirate NITPICK: A triumvirate has THREE members ---
**Author:** ![Steven\_Maven](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steven_maven/32/3272_2.png) [@Steven\_Maven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steven_Maven)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2026, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billionaires-ceos-corporations-and-capitalism-are-things-really-different-or-is-it-propaganda/1034073/144 "2026-10-24T22:51:09Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > the 0.1 are pulling away from the 1% and the 0.01% are pulling away even faster from the 0.1%. Yes, the Hockey Stick Curve. Over the past 45 years (ie, since Reagan), 90% of economic growth has gone to the top 10%, 90% of THAT has gone to the top 1%, 90% of THAT has gone to the top 0.1%, etc. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2026, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billionaires-ceos-corporations-and-capitalism-are-things-really-different-or-is-it-propaganda/1034073/145 "2026-10-24T22:56:44Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Wealth inequality has gotten very severe and the wealth created needs to be redistributed better to ensure society can function. Nations are effective at reducing income inequality, but they haven’t yet been successful in reducing wealth inequality. > > Using taxes and transfers, a wealthy nation can reduce income inequality from 0.5 down to 0.3. But wealth inequality is still about 0.8 in most nations. > > People who own homes pay property taxes of about 1-2% a year, which is a form of a middle class wealth tax. There is no wealth tax for the truly wealthy. A wealth tax of 2% a year on assets over 50 million is something nations are looking into. To ensure there is no capital flight, there are efforts to make sure major nations all agree to it. > > If you home doubles in value, you pay more in property taxes. The property taxes pay for things like schools that the lawn guys kids probably go to. > > There need to be more efforts to ensure the wealth created is distributed better. Too much power in individual hands gives them the ability to affect media, military, politics, etc. LOL I don’t want to pay fucking property taxes at all! I already paid the bank to own my home (or at least I will once I’ve paid it off). Why do I need to keep shelling out money on something I already own? ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2026, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billionaires-ceos-corporations-and-capitalism-are-things-really-different-or-is-it-propaganda/1034073/146 "2026-10-24T23:03:06Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > I already paid the bank to own my home (or at least I will once I’ve paid it off). Why do I need to keep shelling out money on something I already own? Why would this change because your asset is paid off? You weren’t paying tax on the mortgage, you were paying tax on the asset, which you still own, and which is still appreciating. The community services that are paid for by your taxes pay help support the value of your property, i.e. schools, roads, etc, by making people want to live there. And before you say you don’t have kids in school, I’m sure you can appreciate the value of living in a community where kids learn to read and are hence employable, and are staying in school learning rather than drifting around aimlessly at all hours of the day. My parents’ town abolished property taxes for seniors. The schools went into decline, people stopped moving there and started leaving, and now the seniors are all complaining that they’re out in the middle of a shrinking community with plunging property values, and the government isn’t doing anything about it. They don’t make the connection between that and the shrinking tax base, not even for a moment. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2026, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billionaires-ceos-corporations-and-capitalism-are-things-really-different-or-is-it-propaganda/1034073/147 "2026-10-24T23:14:03Z")
> [@Steven\_Maven](#): > > Yes, the Hockey Stick Curve. > > Over the past 45 years (ie, since Reagan), 90% of economic growth has gone to the top 10%, 90% of THAT has gone to the top 1%, 90% of THAT has gone to the top 0.1%, etc. That’s something I discovered as my own household wealth increased. As my and my wife’s income increased, that afforded us the opportunity to invest more. Those investments appreciated at a compounding rate. When it came time to buy a new home, we were able to not only put a down payment on a new home, we also kept the old home as a rental property which has since been paid off. Most of that has nothing to do with policy. It’s mostly just basic math. Like as long as your income exceeds your expenses, the compounding nature of investments will accelerate your wealth, And the more wealth you have, the greater the effect. I don’t really know how at what point you say “you have enough wealth, we’re going to give it to other people”. And while everyone talks about billionaires, it tends to disproportionately affect people like me. Working upper middle class professional types who did well but don’t have bottomless wealth or all the options to hide it that the super-wealthy have. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2026, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billionaires-ceos-corporations-and-capitalism-are-things-really-different-or-is-it-propaganda/1034073/148 "2026-10-24T23:16:41Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > And while everyone talks about billionaires, it tends to disproportionately affect people like me. Working upper middle class professional types who did well but don’t have bottomless wealth or all the options to hide it that the super-wealthy have. This shouldn’t be that hard to avoid - just set the bar well above any possible minimum needed to indefinitely maintain a decent quality of life and future education for one’s descendants. Maybe $50 mil (not sure the ideal amount)? And then only tax wealth above that amount, with increasing percentages for higher brackets, to the point that Musk loses most of his wealth, but Joe Bob with 6 successful dry cleaning franchises barely loses anything. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2026, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billionaires-ceos-corporations-and-capitalism-are-things-really-different-or-is-it-propaganda/1034073/149 "2026-10-24T23:22:51Z")
To fund local schools and municipal services? Like, my city has a sales tax, an income tax, and property taxes. Of those, property taxes are the most progressive, and therefore the most important. I’m fine if people want to play around with the ratios but the money has to come from somewhere. The idea that at some point (retirement?) people should stop having to fund those things is just a fantasy. ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2026, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billionaires-ceos-corporations-and-capitalism-are-things-really-different-or-is-it-propaganda/1034073/150 "2026-10-24T23:50:56Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > I firmly believe in the statement “Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.” And probably most of the time it corrupts because the people in power manage to convince themselves that what they are doing is moral and right. Perhaps even the will of God if you believe in such things. Well if you truly believe that you are smarter and morally superior to everyone, then that kind of makes it easy to do all sorts of objectively questionable acts in the name of the “greater good”. I also think that these people get to a point where they get frustrated and say “fuck it, there is no such thing as ‘good’ or ‘evil’, just execution of power” which just causes them to be more self-serving. My hypothesis is that those who pursue wealth and power tend to be the assholes among us, which leads to assholes being over represented among the powerful. Why do I think that? Because we do sometimes get powerful people (Jimmy Carter, Mikhail Gorbachev, Harry Truman, Abraham Lincoln, etc.) who are fundamentally decent people who want to make things better for the ordinary people among their fellow countrymen rather than pursuing policies that favor the wealthy and powerful of their particular place and time. ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2026, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billionaires-ceos-corporations-and-capitalism-are-things-really-different-or-is-it-propaganda/1034073/151 "2026-10-25T00:01:30Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > I think that clearly is the answer, combined with the fact that for most businesses (and certainly for any business that has significant risk of failure, which frankly is most of them), being an employee is much better than being a part owner. The debate isn’t about most businesses, it’s about those that are so big and powerful that the actions of the owner can have devastating consequences to huge numbers of people should the owner choose to be an asshole. > [@Babale](#): > > There’s nothing wrong with stock options. The question is whether companies have a _moral imperative_ to give ownership over the company to employees, and I think the answer is very much no. Correct, they don’t. As has been said in lots of places, not just in this thread and not just in recent years, their responsibility is to their shareholders\*. The converse is that the voting public has no responsibility towards those asshole owners, and if we collectively decide that what they are doing is bad for society as a whole, we can use our legitimate power at the voting booth to call them on their shit. There would be nothing morally wrong with that either. \*. Although in practice that seems to only apply to the major shareholders. I’d bet that a small organic farmer who buys a share or two of Monsanto and has an interest in the big corporate farm next door not spraying Roundup next to their own crops asked them to stop doing so, they wouldn’t get very far. ---
**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2026, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billionaires-ceos-corporations-and-capitalism-are-things-really-different-or-is-it-propaganda/1034073/152 "2026-10-25T00:34:30Z")
I would rather get money than equity. Equity means that if the company goes under I lose my paycheck and assets. > [@msmith537](#): > > I don’t really know how at what point you say “you have enough wealth, we’re going to give it to other people”. And while everyone talks about billionaires, it tends to disproportionately affect people like me. Working upper middle class professional types who did well but don’t have bottomless wealth or all the options to hide it that the super-wealthy have. [![](https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/002/778/677/2c9) ](https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/002/778/677/2c9) Memes aside, politicans in the US have gotten way too gunshy about doing anything that might harm that top 10-25% even though this cohort is responsible for a lot of similar issues for the bottom 50% as billionaires. ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2026, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billionaires-ceos-corporations-and-capitalism-are-things-really-different-or-is-it-propaganda/1034073/153 "2026-10-25T00:46:04Z")
> [@DeadTreasSecretaries](#): > > Memes aside, politicans in the US have gotten way too gunshy about doing anything that might harm that top 10-25% even though this cohort is responsible for a lot of similar issues for the bottom 50% as billionaires. I’ve been bashing the oligarchs in this thread, but I’m also a staunch defender of the upper middle class. The upper middle class, certainly those in that top 10 to 25% that you mention, are largely people who have worked to achieve what they have. They are people that directly provide some sort of good or service of value to others. That’s where you’re going to find blue collar small business owners (plumbers, electricians, independent truck drivers, etc.), local farmers, medical professionals like doctors, dentists, nurse practitioners, physician assistants, etc., engineers, athletes that play as back ups at the major league level or starters at the level just below that, entertainers like musicians or comedians that aren’t nationally known but have a solid regional following, pilots for the major airlines, and so on. How are those folks causing problems for the bottom 50%? Sure, the 10 to 25% also includes a small number of what some would refer to as the “embarrassed wealthy”, someone that used to be in the oligarch class but managed their wealth so poorly that they are now in the 10 to 25%. But barring that tiny handful, I don’t see what issues the 10 to 25% cause for the bottom 50%. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2026, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billionaires-ceos-corporations-and-capitalism-are-things-really-different-or-is-it-propaganda/1034073/154 "2026-10-25T00:47:02Z")
> [@Steven\_Maven](#): > > Over the past 45 years (ie, since Reagan), 90% of economic growth has gone to the top 10%, 90% of THAT has gone to the top 1%, 90% of THAT has gone to the top 0.1%, etc. Erm, cite? This sounds incorrect. There was a 1 year period of recovery following the Great Recession where this was closer to true, but it definitely is not true of all of the growth of the last 45 years. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2026, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billionaires-ceos-corporations-and-capitalism-are-things-really-different-or-is-it-propaganda/1034073/155 "2026-10-25T01:03:31Z")
The first chart of this blog post shows the .01 pulling away from the .1, which is pulling away from the 1%. I don’t think it’s 90%/90%/90%, but it’s pretty striking. > **[Elon Musk Shows Us Why Oligarchy is a Danger](https://paulkrugman.substack.com/p/elon-musk-shows-us-why-oligarchy)** > > Mega-billionaires are more dangerous to democracy than the merely rich ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2026, 8:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billionaires-ceos-corporations-and-capitalism-are-things-really-different-or-is-it-propaganda/1034073/156 "2026-10-25T08:09:02Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > Why would this change because your asset is paid off? You weren’t paying tax on the mortgage, you were paying tax on the asset, which you still own, and which is still appreciating. The community services that are paid for by your taxes pay help support the value of your property, i.e. schools, roads, etc, by making people want to live there. > > And before you say you don’t have kids in school, I’m sure you can appreciate the value of living in a community where kids learn to read and are hence employable, and are staying in school learning rather than drifting around aimlessly at all hours of the day. > > My parents’ town abolished property taxes for seniors. The schools went into decline, people stopped moving there and started leaving, and now the seniors are all complaining that they’re out in the middle of a shrinking community with plunging property values, and the government isn’t doing anything about it. They don’t make the connection between that and the shrinking tax base, not even for a moment. Well my paycheck was already taxed after I earned it. My mortgage payment was taxed as revenue for the lending company. How many times do they need to tax the same dollar? Seniors tend to be retired, so where does the income to pay the property taxes on the home they typically own come from? And I question the link between declining schools and no property taxes for seniors. What percent of the town’s population are seniors? Did they raise property taxes on everyone else to the point where they moved out? I live in a relatively wealthy town and the schools here still suck. Of course, whatever wealth I have pales in comparison to people over the river in Manhattan who live in those skinny super-tall $40 million condos. Assuming people even actually live in them and they aren’t just stores of wealth for billionaire oligarchs. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2026, 8:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billionaires-ceos-corporations-and-capitalism-are-things-really-different-or-is-it-propaganda/1034073/157 "2026-10-25T08:23:11Z")
The problem is not that some people are rich. The problem is that not _everybody_ is rich. I still question the assumption that any of this is not age-old. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2026, 8:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billionaires-ceos-corporations-and-capitalism-are-things-really-different-or-is-it-propaganda/1034073/158 "2026-10-25T08:31:14Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > How many times do they need to tax the same dollar? Income tax (federal, state, municipal…), sales tax, VAT, capital-gains tax, property tax, …; lots of times. > [@msmith537](#): > > Seniors tend to be retired, so where does the income to pay the property taxes on the home they typically own come from? Public pension system (funded by taxes, obviously). If any of this is inadequate, there is not enough taxation. We do have an ageing population, mind you, and regions with more people over 65 years old than younger are predictable, which might cause some people to re-think when they might be able to retire. If billionaires and trillionaires are paying zero or negative taxes, something needs to be done about that, but that is hardly news, either. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2026, 9:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billionaires-ceos-corporations-and-capitalism-are-things-really-different-or-is-it-propaganda/1034073/159 "2026-10-25T09:58:37Z")
Again, where else is the money going to come from? If we stop taxing property once people turn 65, are you OK with taxes on everyone under 65 increasing to compensate? If we stop taxing homes with paid-off mortgages, are you OK with taxes increasing for all other homes? How exactly do you plan on shifting the burden? ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2026, 10:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billionaires-ceos-corporations-and-capitalism-are-things-really-different-or-is-it-propaganda/1034073/160 "2026-10-25T10:38:06Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Well my paycheck was already taxed after I earned it. My mortgage payment was taxed as revenue for the lending company. How many times do they need to tax the same dollar? Dollars don’t get taxed. People get taxed. You can’t just say, I’m not paying income tax because this dollar has already been income-taxed a thousand times over its lifetime. The tax is on your ownership of the home. If you don’t want to pay that tax, don’t own the home. In fact a [Georgeist](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgism)would go so far to say that property tax should be the _only_ tax. The idea has a lot of merit, though I’m not entirely sold on it. > [@msmith537](#): > > Seniors tend to be retired, so where does the income to pay the property taxes on the home they typically own come from? From Social Security, which comes from the taxes of workers like me, which I don’t complain about because even though I’m paying to put bread on your table, I know someday I’ll be in the same position. Perhaps you’re fortunate enough not to need it, but others do. > [@msmith537](#): > > What percent of the town’s population are seniors? Did they raise property taxes on everyone else to the point where they moved out? Well, the town is majority middle age and up at this point, as the younger people raising families have left for towns with better schools. They did raise property taxes somewhat, but the reason they moved out is that the schools started to crowd and age, and the tax base was no longer sufficient to keep up, so people started leaving. Now it’s a dying bedroom community that can’t really keep up with any of its civic obligations because the overall tax base is dwindling, and seniors aren’t paying. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billionaires-ceos-corporations-and-capitalism-are-things-really-different-or-is-it-propaganda/1034073.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billionaires-ceos-corporations-and-capitalism-are-things-really-different-or-is-it-propaganda/1034073.md?page=9)