# Billy Graham; he's one of the good guys, right? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 28, 2012, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-graham-hes-one-of-the-good-guys-right/636085 "2012-09-28T01:47:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sleeps_With_Butterflies)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2012, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-graham-hes-one-of-the-good-guys-right/636085/21 "2012-09-28T13:51:26Z")
> [@Gary\_T](#): > > That was around forty years ago. It appears his thinking has evolved beyond that, he did apologize for those remarks, and his later stance regarding Jews is more charitable than that of many of his colleagues. If he had continued to disparage Jews I’d find that upsetting, but it seems to me he’s had a change of heart and I don’t see a call to judge him harshly on that issue. I believe he tried to say he didn’t remember making them but if he did he was sorry. Yes it was 40 years ago and maybe he’s changed his tune since then, but I tend to not trust the apology of someone who isn’t sorry until they’re caught. I’m not saying he’s the worst person EVAR but I think he’s fairly full of it. Just my opinion, worthless as it is. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Lowry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Sam\_Lowry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Lowry)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2012, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-graham-hes-one-of-the-good-guys-right/636085/22 "2012-09-28T14:24:49Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > He IS against same-sex marriage, although you have to cut the guy some slack, when you realize you have a fundamentalist preacher in his 90s. Is he vocally against it? I remember there was an ad Graham did against it in North Carolina. But since Billy rarely takes a political stand, and he’s getting up in years and not as with it as he used to be, I’d heard a lot of speculation that Franklin was behind the ad and was just using Billy’s name. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2012, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-graham-hes-one-of-the-good-guys-right/636085/23 "2012-09-28T14:32:25Z")
He has come out against same-sex marriage several times, and has made other homophobic remarks. I do not cut him any slack. His mind is intact, and regardless of his age he’s capable of changing . . . but he doesn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2012, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-graham-hes-one-of-the-good-guys-right/636085/24 "2012-09-28T14:44:50Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > He IS against same-sex marriage, although you have to cut the guy some slack, when you realize you have a fundamentalist preacher in his 90s. I didn’t realize reprehensible views get a pass as long as you have an ideology to fit them in. Graham’s nice enough for a fundamentalist which is faint praise indeed. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2012, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-graham-hes-one-of-the-good-guys-right/636085/25 "2012-09-28T14:53:54Z")
> [@Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](#): > > O sure he’s great, just Google “Billy Graham Nixon Tapes” and you’ll see how charitable he is about Jews. When the camera is on him and he knows it, he’s awesome. When he doesn’t know it? Hmmmm. > [@Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](#): > > I believe he tried to say he didn’t remember making them but if he did he was sorry. Yes it was 40 years ago and maybe he’s changed his tune since then, but I tend to not trust the apology of someone who isn’t sorry until they’re caught. That’s how I feel about it. The other stuff posted in this thread makes him look good by fundamentalist standards, but that is literally the faintest praise I can think of. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2012, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-graham-hes-one-of-the-good-guys-right/636085/26 "2012-09-28T14:57:26Z")
> [@Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](#): > > I believe he tried to say he didn’t remember making them but if he did he was sorry. Yes it was 40 years ago and maybe he’s changed his tune since then, but I tend to not trust the apology of someone who isn’t sorry until they’re caught. I’m not saying he’s the worst person EVAR but I think he’s fairly full of it. Just my opinion, worthless as it is. I’m inclined to cut him some slack for that because he’s pretty much the only evangelist blowhard who supports Israel _without_ quietly (or loudly) plotting to convert the Jews. I’m a bit more concerned by his refusal to support Kennedy because he was a Catholic, but that was an even longer time ago. ---
**Author:** ![PandaBear77](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@PandaBear77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PandaBear77)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2012, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-graham-hes-one-of-the-good-guys-right/636085/27 "2012-09-28T15:43:46Z")
> [@Alan\_Smithee](#): > > And in at least one column he made it clear that non-Christians will get into heaven, which almost makes the rest of them worth it if he softened the heart of one fundamentalist. I almost never do this but if you could provide a cite I’d be _very_ interested in reading that. I have _never_ heard of Billy Graham going soft on the whole Jesus issue; he’s never pulled any punches when it comes to preaching about salvation. ---
**Author:** ![shiftless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9c0ed/32.png) [@shiftless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shiftless)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2012, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-graham-hes-one-of-the-good-guys-right/636085/28 "2012-09-28T15:49:38Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > I don’t see anything in [Billy Graham](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billy_Graham)’s past that leads me to believe that he isn’t a decent Christian who lives and abides by true Christian values. He’s not in it for profit or to fleece the public. Isn’t this damning him with faint praise? The man makes millions teaching that Christians live by a certain special set of ideals and we are pleasantly surprised that he actually lives some of those ideals himself? I am glad to learn that Graham is a better person than the likes of Pat Robertson or Jimmy Swaggart but that bar is so low as to be meaningless. It saddens me that Christians have come to accept “he’s not that crooked” as the best they can hope for in a leader. ---
**Author:** ![Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Living_Well_Is_Best_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2012, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-graham-hes-one-of-the-good-guys-right/636085/29 "2012-09-28T16:21:51Z")
I have no use for the man. The best I could say about him is that he’s not that bad for an evangelical crazy fundie. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2012, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-graham-hes-one-of-the-good-guys-right/636085/30 "2012-09-28T16:23:39Z")
> [@PandaBear77](#): > > I almost never do this but if you could provide a cite I’d be _very_ interested in reading that. [Here you go](http://www.wnd.com/2006/08/37410/). ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2012, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-graham-hes-one-of-the-good-guys-right/636085/31 "2012-09-28T16:37:08Z")
Question: Did/does Billy Graham self-identify as a Fundamentalist? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2012, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-graham-hes-one-of-the-good-guys-right/636085/32 "2012-09-28T16:41:49Z")
He was one. Now they generally hate him because he’s steered the evangelical movement away from fundamentalist viewpoints (see the article I linked above, for instance). ---
**Author:** ![WolfpackJeep](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpackjeep/32/2921_2.png) [@WolfpackJeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WolfpackJeep)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2012, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-graham-hes-one-of-the-good-guys-right/636085/33 "2012-09-28T16:43:55Z")
I always thought he was an OK guy, until that nasty anti-gay letter/ad he ran in the papers. It wouldn’t surprise me to learn that his scumbag son was completely responsible for that though. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Lowry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Sam\_Lowry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Lowry)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2012, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-graham-hes-one-of-the-good-guys-right/636085/34 "2012-09-28T16:55:34Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > He has come out against same-sex marriage several times, and has made other homophobic remarks. I do not cut him any slack. His mind is intact, and regardless of his age he’s capable of changing . . . but he doesn’t. Okay, I hadn’t realized. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2012, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-graham-hes-one-of-the-good-guys-right/636085/35 "2012-09-28T17:38:31Z")
Re the Nixon-Jews thing: Yeah, Graham should have been more forthright but he wasn’t directing the conversation & from the transcripts I’ve read, it looks like he may have been pandering to a very powerful man who he’d just realized was kinda nuts. Do you confront or do you just go along & hope to get to the next subject? And in the faint praise category, it wasn’t ALL Jews that Nixon was lambasting, just the Lefty ones. A REAL Anti-Semite wouldn’t go on about ‘good Jews’ and ‘bad Jews’. Re the gay thing: On what grounds would anyone ever think Billy Graham is A-OK with Gayness? I mean- that’s not a top priority issue with me anymore but I’m still an official bad-guy for holding a moderate version of the traditional Judeo-Christian position on it. Re Salvation: Billy has drifted from “You must be born again” (words of Jesus) to “You should be born again” + “I have other sheep who are not of this fold” & other words of Jesus which indicate some wiggle-room. He’s now an Evangelical Inclusivist or an Inclusive Evangelical. Re Fundamentalist: There are Fundamentalists & there are Fundamentalists. Heck, I think I’m one when it comes to the REAL Fundamentals of the Christian Faith, but I totally realize a lot of self-named Fund’ists might barely consider me a Christian. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2012, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-graham-hes-one-of-the-good-guys-right/636085/36 "2012-09-28T17:42:12Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > …I’m still an official bad-guy for holding a moderate version of the traditional Judeo-Christian position on it. “It’s all good as long as one of you is underage”? _I keed, I keed!_ ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2012, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-graham-hes-one-of-the-good-guys-right/636085/37 "2012-09-28T17:50:33Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > Re the Nixon-Jews thing: Yeah, Graham should have been more forthright but he wasn’t directing the conversation & from the transcripts I’ve read, it looks like he may have been pandering to a very powerful man who he’d just realized was kinda nuts. Excuses excuses. He said this was how he really felt about Jews but couldn’t admit it in public. I’m inclined to take him at his word rather than trying to find a way to say he didn’t really mean it. Nixon’s defenders say _he_ wasn’t an anti-Semite either. If you’re favorably disposed enough toward someone, you can excuse anything. > [@](#): > > Re the gay thing: On what grounds would anyone ever think Billy Graham is A-OK with Gayness? I’m not sure. But he’s wrong anyway. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2012, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-graham-hes-one-of-the-good-guys-right/636085/38 "2012-09-28T17:58:49Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > “It’s all good as long as one of you is underage”? > > _I keed, I keed!_ Dash you, Sir, for making me chortle at mine own comeuppance! ---
**Author:** ![davekhps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@davekhps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davekhps)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2012, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-graham-hes-one-of-the-good-guys-right/636085/39 "2012-09-28T18:44:43Z")
> [@Alan\_Smithee](#): > > And in at least one column he made it clear that non-Christians will get into heaven, which almost makes the rest of them worth it if he softened the heart of one fundamentalist. Ummm, what’s the point of a religion that has no point? I’m an atheist too, but I reserve the most respect for faiths (and faithful) that take a stand. I mean, we’re only talking here about the word of God, the almighty omnipotent creator of the ENTIRE UNIVERSE. This wishy-washy, touchy-feely ecumenical cafeteria Catholic pseudounitarian pablum makes my skin crawl far more than fundamentalist beliefs. Again, it’s GOD, you’re _supposed_ to be fundamentalist, priests, pastors and imams shouldn’t be allowed to rewrite two-thousand-year-old rules simply because unbelievers won’t invite them to coffee unless they express the proper amount of 2012-approved love for gay people, Jews, Mormons, cat owners and Prius drivers. 🙂 I like Billy Graham, as a person. As a pastor? Eh, I like my pastors with more conviction. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2012, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-graham-hes-one-of-the-good-guys-right/636085/40 "2012-09-28T18:46:58Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > True. But at the same time, he never tried to defraud his followers. Unlike Oral Roberts, who claimed that God would “call him home” unless he raised a certain amount of money by a certain date; or Jim Bakker, who sold accommodations that did not exist at his Christian theme park; Billy just preached, and his message boiled down to what Bill and Ted told us some years ago (and which we’re told Jesus taught two thousand years ago): be excellent to each other. > > That’s not a bad message, and I try to be excellent to others daily. > > “Being excellent to each other” seems to be all Billy Graham wants. Oh, he’ll take monetary contributions, but they are not his motivation. There are evangelists whose motivation seems to be money, but Billy Graham does not seem to be one of them. As such, I’ll call him one of the good guys. I see your point; this could be my own personal thing, since most of my religious indoctrination comes from the Mennonites. A religious leader keeping $25 mil for himself when he could be doing good works with it just isn’t good enough, to me. I guess my stance is basically he might be good, but he could be better. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-graham-hes-one-of-the-good-guys-right/636085.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-graham-hes-one-of-the-good-guys-right/636085.md?page=3)