# Billy Graham; he's one of the good guys, right? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 28, 2012, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-graham-hes-one-of-the-good-guys-right/636085 "2012-09-28T01:47:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2012, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-graham-hes-one-of-the-good-guys-right/636085/81 "2012-10-03T23:14:40Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > Again, all signs are that he genuinely believes. They are not lies if he really believes them. That is pretty weak. What has he ever done to substantiate the validity of his beliefs? I mean, after all, this is the fucking _ **word of God** _, the most important information in the whole of existence, to be heeded with utmost care and alacrity. It is the absolute, intractable truth, couched in a powerful appeal to emotion. And you are arguing that simple passive belief is sufficient for accepting and disseminating this information, that belief absolves possible error with respect to this most crucial teaching? So sorry, but I think the word of god deserves and demands a higher standard than that. As it is, preachers should frame their discourse with legalese caveats to clarify that it is just opinion and belief they expounding. Also, Franklin Graham is a douche, that strikes me as a pretty serious indictment of Billy, that he has allowed his son to run amok in this most deprecable way. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2012, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-graham-hes-one-of-the-good-guys-right/636085/82 "2012-10-03T23:33:59Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > She’s left off the bit about relinquishment of moral authority and I can see why one would choose to ignore that bit but whether you call it divine revelation or taking another look, they decided for one reason or another that what they had previously been preaching as true was not true. The two statements are equivalent in results which is what matters. You previously provided a selection of four poisoned wells to explain the change in Catholic doctrine on this point. Since all four of them result in the same change to doctrine, does that mean that all four of the options are equivalent? If all four are equivalent, why did you ask which one best describes the church’s motivations? ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2012, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-graham-hes-one-of-the-good-guys-right/636085/83 "2012-10-04T06:19:23Z")
> [@Docta\_G](#): > > It’s certainly not a Christian thing. Why is it evil to be wealthy? ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2012, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-graham-hes-one-of-the-good-guys-right/636085/84 "2012-10-04T06:34:03Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Why is it evil to be wealthy? Evil? Is it possible to be both not Christian and not evil in your universe? ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2012, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-graham-hes-one-of-the-good-guys-right/636085/85 "2012-10-04T21:13:50Z")
> [@opeongo66](#): > > He believes in vicarious redemption as a moral strong point. For those who don’t know what that is, it is also called scapegoating. Kinda cute that you think we need ‘vicarious redemption’ to be defined for us, then you mangle it. Yeah, it’s kinda, sorta like ‘scapegoating’ except that the Scapegoat in question is (Sam Kinison volume escalation) _The Creator Incarnate!_ ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2012, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-graham-hes-one-of-the-good-guys-right/636085/86 "2012-10-04T21:16:05Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Why is it evil to be wealthy? Qin, don’t you know Christians are to be poor, weak, powerless doormats so that the wealthier, stronger, powerful non-believers need not fear those who believe in a rival Lord to them? ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2012, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-graham-hes-one-of-the-good-guys-right/636085/87 "2012-10-05T01:04:33Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > Qin, don’t you know Christians are to be poor, weak, powerless doormats so that the wealthier, stronger, powerful non-believers need not fear those who believe in a rival Lord to them? Christians are to be poor, weak, powerless doormats because that is essentially the ideal that Jesus taught. Paul might have offered some different doctrine, but Paul was not the son of god, now was he? ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2018, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-graham-hes-one-of-the-good-guys-right/636085/88 "2018-02-21T20:39:43Z")
I don’t know what he made out of his American crusades, but he never took money out of foreign countries: not “nothing after expenses”, actually “nothing at all”. And for the rest of this thread: haters gotta hate, right? Take it to the pit. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2018, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-graham-hes-one-of-the-good-guys-right/636085/89 "2018-02-21T20:51:22Z")
> [@Melbourne](#): > > I don’t know what he made out of his American crusades, but he never took money out of foreign countries: not “nothing after expenses”, actually “nothing at all”. > > And for the rest of this thread: haters gotta hate, right? Take it to the pit. Did…did you just bump a post from 4 years ago to tell people to take the conversation to the Pit? Really? _Really_? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2018, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-graham-hes-one-of-the-good-guys-right/636085/90 "2018-02-21T21:13:12Z")
This thread was probably linked from some other thread, on the occasion of his death, and **Melbourne** read through it without noticing how old it was. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2018, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-graham-hes-one-of-the-good-guys-right/636085/91 "2018-02-21T21:39:23Z")
Anyway, the OP was wrong. He was a heel for most of his career. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2018, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-graham-hes-one-of-the-good-guys-right/636085/92 "2018-02-21T22:22:37Z")
> [@Melbourne](#): > > I don’t know what he made out of his American crusades, but he never took money out of foreign countries: not “nothing after expenses”, actually “nothing at all”. > > And for the rest of this thread: haters gotta hate, right? Take it to the pit. That same pit where he wanted to toss all of the Jewish people? ---
**Author:** ![Lasciel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e79b87/32.png) [@Lasciel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lasciel)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2018, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-graham-hes-one-of-the-good-guys-right/636085/93 "2018-02-22T00:35:13Z")
goddamn zombies everywhere these days. ‘By your fruit shall ye be known’ and his son is a giant suppurating carbuncle on the asscheeks of humanity. Negative 1000 points. Billy himself wasn’t as strident and spittle-flecked as some of his contemporaries, and he wasn’t anti evolution and didn’t seem to be heinously racist against at least blacks, even though he was anti semitic and a homophobe. Zero points. So, less awful than a lot of other fundies? Not exactly a glowing report card. Also he’s dead and he’s not a poster here so why the attempt to junior-mod this shambling corpse into the pit anyway? ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2018, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-graham-hes-one-of-the-good-guys-right/636085/94 "2018-02-22T00:50:07Z")
> [@Lasciel](#): > > Also he’s dead and he’s not a poster here so why the attempt to junior-mod this shambling corpse into the pit anyway? I suppose the idea is that if some people really want to piss on his grave for reasons already shared, and if they try to do so in the actual obit thread they may get modded, then the pit is suggested. But I suppose, this zombie is perfectly cromulent to discuss if he was “one of the good guys” even now. ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2018, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-graham-hes-one-of-the-good-guys-right/636085/95 "2018-02-22T03:34:22Z")
Other than some jokes about his clothes back during the Nixon years (God just thought he looked better in $200 suits) he seems to have attracted less dirt than most televangelists. All in all not a bad guy to me. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2018, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-graham-hes-one-of-the-good-guys-right/636085/96 "2018-02-22T14:23:47Z")
He was flawed like any human, but was still as decent as they come. A lot of folks became better persons for having listened to him. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2018, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-graham-hes-one-of-the-good-guys-right/636085/97 "2018-02-22T14:28:26Z")
It IS something of a comment of where the standing of evangelists has descended, that a lot of the comments are to the effect that he shines in comparison to others. Franklin, OTOH… ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2018, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-graham-hes-one-of-the-good-guys-right/636085/98 "2018-02-22T14:38:45Z")
Descended? _Elmer Gantry_ was published in 1926. ---
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2018, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-graham-hes-one-of-the-good-guys-right/636085/99 "2018-02-22T14:51:39Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Why is it evil to be wealthy? Well, not evil per se but Somebody doesn’t look kindly on it: Matthew 19:24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.” ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2018, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-graham-hes-one-of-the-good-guys-right/636085/100 "2018-02-22T15:59:28Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > It IS something of a comment of where the standing of evangelists has descended, that a lot of the comments are to the effect that he shines in comparison to others. There are evangelists who are genuinely and sincerely in it to _evangelize_ (to spread the gospel and “win people for Christ,” or whatever term you want to use), and there are those who are in it for the money or the fame or the political power or other ulterior motives. One way to interpret the thread title’s question is as asking whether Billy is/was one of the former or one of the latter. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-graham-hes-one-of-the-good-guys-right/636085.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-graham-hes-one-of-the-good-guys-right/636085.md?page=6)