# Billy Joel doesn't belong in the Classic Rock Canon. Who's with me? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 22, 2001, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-joel-doesnt-belong-in-the-classic-rock-canon-whos-with-me/77604 "2001-08-22T19:50:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2001, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-joel-doesnt-belong-in-the-classic-rock-canon-whos-with-me/77604/1 "2001-08-22T19:50:30Z")
I just returned from my lunchtime workout, where the sound system was playing “classic rock”. Or album-oriented-rock if you prefer a term not coined by radio station ad copywriters. I’m talking about just the general run of mainstream rock from about 1964, to let’s say 1990. The Byrds. The Doors. The Beatles. Aerosmith. Queen. Billy Joel. (Huh!?) How did the Piano Man get into the canon? I don’t mean to disparage his talents, which are considerable, but I never felt that what he was doing was really rock-n-roll. Instead, I always saw him as a melodic popster, better suited to AM radio. (And with a touch of Broadway, perhaps appropriate to a dyed in the wool New Yorker.) OTOH, all I ever hear are his big hits. For those who know his work, is his more obscure work more like rock music? ---
**Author:** ![pezpunk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@pezpunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pezpunk)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2001, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-joel-doesnt-belong-in-the-classic-rock-canon-whos-with-me/77604/2 "2001-08-22T20:05:24Z")
You may be right. You may be crazy 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2001, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-joel-doesnt-belong-in-the-classic-rock-canon-whos-with-me/77604/3 "2001-08-22T20:13:13Z")
These Guys: [http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0806512318/qid=998510976/sr=1-1/ref=sc\_b\_1/103-9433479-2414204](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0806512318/qid=998510976/sr=1-1/ref=sc_b_1/103-9433479-2414204) agree with you. Their book, **The Fifty Worst Records of All Time** is a real education for me. I’m amazingly rock-illiterate. The book actually lists the fo worst singles _and_ the 50 worst albums, and has some extras, such as the worst rock performers. Billy Joel is their choice for rthe absolute worst Rock performer, since he is immensely popular yet, according to them, not a rocker at all. He’s a balladeer. As I say, I’m illiterate in this department. I know that I like his stuff, but I don’t know what criteria they use to define “rock”. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2001, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-joel-doesnt-belong-in-the-classic-rock-canon-whos-with-me/77604/4 "2001-08-22T20:25:03Z")
Another way of putting my OP, I suppose, is the following: Before the “canonization” occurred, was there ever a significant amount of fan-overlap between BJ and, say, Led Zeppelin? Would BJ have ever been on a double bill together with Aerosmith? My first guess would be probably not, which only emphasizes the point. ---
**Author:** ![okielady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/fbc32d/32.png) [@okielady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/okielady)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2001, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-joel-doesnt-belong-in-the-classic-rock-canon-whos-with-me/77604/5 "2001-08-22T20:35:37Z")
I’ve always thought pretty much the same thing about Billy Joel AND Elton John. I love music by both of these guys, but I would think it would be considered more pop than rock. Maybe even pop/rock, to separate them from pop acts such as Donny Osmond, Leif Garrett, or David Cassidy. The CLASSIC ROCK station here plays songs by both Billy Joel and Elton John quite often. However, the ROCK station (playing rock music from the past 25 years, since they’ve been in existence) don’t play either of them. Or Tom Petty, as for that matter. They do play Led Zeppelin, Aerosmith, occasional Queen (We Will Rock You / We Are The Champions, usually), Van Halen, etc. Just my $.02 ---
**Author:** ![Jeannie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e480ec/32.png) [@Jeannie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeannie)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2001, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-joel-doesnt-belong-in-the-classic-rock-canon-whos-with-me/77604/6 "2001-08-22T20:36:12Z")
I’m not very music literate either. I just know what I like (which includes Billy Joel–he’s one of my favorites). The way my husband explained it to me (and he’s a huge “Classic Rock” fan) is that Classic Rock = Guitar Rock. So it would mostly include bands that are heavy on the guitar. Billy Joel, IMHO, is heavy on the piano. So he would be…piano rock?? ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2001, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-joel-doesnt-belong-in-the-classic-rock-canon-whos-with-me/77604/7 "2001-08-22T20:36:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by javaman \* > \*\* > Before the “canonization” occurred, was there ever a significant amount of fan-overlap between BJ and, say, Led Zeppelin? Would BJ have ever been on a double bill together with Aerosmith? My first guess would be probably not, which only emphasizes the point. \*\* Well, during his early days, he opened for the Moody Blues, the Eagles, and other groups like that. So his pairing with Aerosmith may be a longshot, but certainly not impossible. And his early bands, **The Hassles** and \*\* Attilla\*\*, were both kinda heavy and psychedelic at the same time. I wouldn’t immediately disqualify him. To me, it would depend on the time period. Granted, he’s more known for his ballads. But that’s not exclusive to what he does. Can you tell I’m a big fan? ---
**Author:** ![okielady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/fbc32d/32.png) [@okielady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/okielady)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2001, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-joel-doesnt-belong-in-the-classic-rock-canon-whos-with-me/77604/8 "2001-08-22T20:41:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by okielady \* > **However, the ROCK station (playing rock music from the past 25 years, since they’ve been in existence) don’t play either of them.** Did I have a temporary lapse of grammatical knowledge? That should read “…the rock station (playing rock music from the past 25 years, since they’ve been in existence) DOESN’T play either of them.” 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Montfort](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Montfort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Montfort)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2001, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-joel-doesnt-belong-in-the-classic-rock-canon-whos-with-me/77604/9 "2001-08-22T20:44:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jeannie \* > \*\*The way my husband explained it to me (and he’s a huge “Classic Rock” fan) is that Classic Rock = Guitar Rock. So it would mostly include bands that are heavy on the guitar. Billy Joel, IMHO, is heavy on the piano. So he would be…piano rock?? \*\* And what then about Elton John? Did he not rock in the early 1970s? And, to answer the OP: Yes, Billy Joel is classic rock. Only the Good Die Young! ---
**Author:** ![Wildest\_Bill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Wildest\_Bill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wildest_Bill)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2001, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-joel-doesnt-belong-in-the-classic-rock-canon-whos-with-me/77604/10 "2001-08-22T20:46:59Z")
I agree Billy Joel Does not ROCK and he shouldn’t even get to stand beside people like Aerosmith, Halen, ACDC etc. Wierdo Elton John either although I do like a few of his songs. ---
**Author:** ![Myrr21](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Myrr21](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Myrr21)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2001, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-joel-doesnt-belong-in-the-classic-rock-canon-whos-with-me/77604/11 "2001-08-22T21:09:20Z")
> [@](#): > > And, to answer the OP: Yes, Billy Joel is classic rock. Only the Good Die Young! Does the persisting existence of that song (or anything else by him) therefore prove its general craptasticness? ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2001, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-joel-doesnt-belong-in-the-classic-rock-canon-whos-with-me/77604/12 "2001-08-22T21:12:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Myrr21 \* > \*\* > Does the persisting existence of that song (or anything else by him) therefore prove its general craptasticness? \*\* Ah ah ah…you’re getting dangerously close to a thwip in the back of the head. Billy Joel is a musical genius. I suggest listening to the songs that _weren’t_ played on the air. ---
**Author:** ![pldennison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9fc29f/32.png) [@pldennison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pldennison)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2001, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-joel-doesnt-belong-in-the-classic-rock-canon-whos-with-me/77604/13 "2001-08-22T21:12:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by javaman \* > \*\*Another way of putting my OP, I suppose, is the following: > Before the “canonization” occurred, was there ever a significant amount of fan-overlap between BJ and, say, Led Zeppelin? Would BJ have ever been on a double bill together with Aerosmith? My first guess would be probably not, which only emphasizes the point. \*\* If you’re going to limit classic rock to Led Zeppelin and Aerosmith, or even bands that sounds like them, you’re going to have to eliminate about 90% of the classic rock playlist. Would you see CSNY on the bill with Zeppelin? How about Aerosmith and Traffic? I can’t see how songs like “Big Shot” or “You May Be Right” don’t belong on rock radio. If Woodstock managed to have both Richie Havens and Jimi Hendrix, I think we can tolerate Billy Joel on classic rock radio. ---
**Author:** ![Wildest\_Bill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Wildest\_Bill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wildest_Bill)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2001, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-joel-doesnt-belong-in-the-classic-rock-canon-whos-with-me/77604/14 "2001-08-22T21:17:09Z")
Pl I know what you are saying but me knowing a little about the radio business where you live & die by your decisions every three or 4 minutes is Billy Joel really the best choice for that three or four minutes. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2001, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-joel-doesnt-belong-in-the-classic-rock-canon-whos-with-me/77604/15 "2001-08-22T21:17:46Z")
Bear in mind, “Classic Rock” is not a genre of music, it’s a radio format, and the only question program directors ask themselves when making playlists is “Does this music appeal to the 35-49 year old white males who are our target audience”? Now, the bands/artists who fall into that category are a large and varied bunch. Do the Eagles sound like Led Zeppelin? Does Supertramp sound like Jimi Hendrix? Does Bruce Springsteen sound like Jethro Tull? Do the Doors sound like Lynyrd Skynyrd? If I listened to the local classic rock station for an hour, I might hear Zeppelin’s “Black Dog,” followed by the Beatles “Penny Lane,” followed by Mountain’s “Mississippi Queen,” followed by the Moody Blues’ “Nights in White Satin,” followed by Focus’ “Hocus Pocus,” followed by Crosby, Stills & Nash’s “Suite: Judy Blue Eyes,” followed by Yes’ “And You and I,” followed by the Police’s “Message in a Bottle.” Quick: tell me what those songs have in common? (No, this is NOT an invitation to wise guys to suggest “They all suck.”) If ALL those songs, different as they are, can be squeezed into the “classic rock” format, I don’t see why Elton John’s “Funeral for a Friend/Love Lies Bleeding” or Billy Joel’s “Big Shot” can’t. ---
**Author:** ![frock75](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ad7895/32.png) [@frock75](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/frock75)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2001, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-joel-doesnt-belong-in-the-classic-rock-canon-whos-with-me/77604/16 "2001-08-22T21:18:58Z")
Billy Joel was indeed a balladeer, but why wouldn’t he belong on a “classic” rock station. Let’s face it, not all the bands on those stations fit the bill. In the name of filling airtime one must suffer a little Billy Joel for every Van Halen, Led Zeplin and Rolling stones. For instance, the local “alternative” station here in Philly, regularly plays Bob Marley. Hmmm…nothing wrong with BM, I’m a fan, but it doesn’t strike me as alternative, modern rock or whatever they are calling it these days. By the way, Elton John rocks. Remember, so did Elvis, Little Richard, Chubby Checker and Jerry Lee Lewis. We don’t see them on too many classic rock stations. They have to suffer in the basement of radio programming…oldies stations. ---
**Author:** ![Wildest\_Bill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Wildest\_Bill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wildest_Bill)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2001, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-joel-doesnt-belong-in-the-classic-rock-canon-whos-with-me/77604/17 "2001-08-22T21:21:00Z")
No offense astorian but other than Black Dog and Mississippi Queen that is one wimpy ass classic rock station that I would probably not listen to too much. ---
**Author:** ![pldennison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9fc29f/32.png) [@pldennison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pldennison)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2001, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-joel-doesnt-belong-in-the-classic-rock-canon-whos-with-me/77604/18 "2001-08-22T21:24:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Wildest Bill \* > \*\*Pl I know what you are saying but me knowing a little about the radio business where you live & die by your decisions every three or 4 minutes is Billy Joel really the best choice for that three or four minutes. \*\* I know a little about the biz too, Bill. I have a bachelors degree in it, after all. I see in preview that astorian already nailed the essentials, so I’ll just add that if you only lose a listener for 3 or 4 minutes, you’ve probably already counted that listener in your AQH. **frock75** : I don’t know where you are, but in Cleveland (#15 market, IIRC), oldies station WMJI-FM is consistently near the top of the ratings, normally beating both big rock stations. It’s got the third-highest AQH in town, after country WGAR-FM and talk WTAM-AM. Classic rock WNCX-FM and AOR WMMS-FM have about half their numbers. ---
**Author:** ![frock75](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ad7895/32.png) [@frock75](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/frock75)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2001, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-joel-doesnt-belong-in-the-classic-rock-canon-whos-with-me/77604/19 "2001-08-22T21:35:37Z")
pldennison I’m sure the Oldies station in Philly get’s wonderful ratings. I’m sure they do competitive business everywhere. I happen to love alot of the music on those stations. I don’t believe the one here, gets better ratings than the classic rock station or the alternative staion, but I can’t state that as fact. I will try to find this information and get back to you. My referance was to the “basement” was a direct result of my own tastes. This being an opion board, I’m sure you understand. ---
**Author:** ![Wildest\_Bill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Wildest\_Bill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wildest_Bill)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2001, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-joel-doesnt-belong-in-the-classic-rock-canon-whos-with-me/77604/20 "2001-08-22T21:36:41Z")
Well pld it depends where you play that billy joel song in the quarter hour now doesn’t it? I mean I am sure some people like billy joel but if I was programming I definetely wouldn’t play a billy joel song in unless it tested very high in auditorium test for that peticular market. I would rather stay safe with higher testing artist for men. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-joel-doesnt-belong-in-the-classic-rock-canon-whos-with-me/77604.md?page=2)