# Billy Joel's Piano Man **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** music\ **Created:** [February 9, 2000, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-joels-piano-man/7084 "2000-02-09T20:30:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![mrblue92](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@mrblue92](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mrblue92)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2000, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-joels-piano-man/7084/21 "2000-02-10T13:38:00Z")
OK folks, this from the horse’s mouth on one of his CD collections: He worked at a piano bar for 6 months after signing a bad contract. He figured he was going to give these guys any of his work, and hopefully he could get out of the contract. “Piano Man” was written about that particular gig. [And therefore it must have happened before the song’s release, which IIRC was 1973] The old man was real, though obviously some creative license was taken with the “making love to his tonic and gin” line. And the real guy didn’t rhyme when he asked him to play a song. [Joel was unclear whether or not he said the “younger man clothes” line specifically…] John was the bartender, and he did get free drinks, though the job sucked otherwise. [No mention about the movie star line.] Davy _was_ in the Navy… The waitress was actually his first wife, who was a cocktail waitress. Businessmen _did_ get stoned… People _did_ ask him what he was doing there, saying they knew somebody in the business or that they could produce for him… And finally, Paul was a real estate broker who would get drunk and would go on about how he was writing the “Great American Novel”. ---
**Author:** ![mrblue92](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@mrblue92](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mrblue92)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2000, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-joels-piano-man/7084/22 "2000-02-10T13:39:00Z")
He figured he **wasn’t** going to give these guys… Too early in the morning for this… ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2000, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-joels-piano-man/7084/23 "2000-02-10T22:45:00Z")
Narile, it’s _nom de plume_. ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2000, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-joels-piano-man/7084/24 "2000-02-11T00:52:00Z")
Reminds me of the quote, by Thoreau IIRC… “The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation.” ---
**Author:** ![torq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dfb087/32.png) [@torq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/torq)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2000, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-joels-piano-man/7084/25 "2000-02-11T21:03:00Z")
I always assumed that the line “The waitress is practicing politics” meant that she was doing something designed to get a better tip out of the business man. That “something” might have been flirting with him, might have been flattering him, or might have just been trying to figure out a way to tell him he’d had enough already without offending him. The interpretation that she’s interested in politics and is discussing that with him (presumably because she doesn’t have anyone else to listen to her, and he puts up with it because he doesn’t have anyone else to talk with) also seems to fit but it’s not what I originally came up with. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2000, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-joels-piano-man/7084/26 "2000-02-12T13:49:00Z")
If I used the term “losers” to casually, I’m sorry. Strictly speaking, MOST of us are losers, in the sense that (except for a fortunate few like Michael Jordan and Billy Joel himself) hardly any of us really get to do the things we dreamed about when we were younger. MOST of us will never be rock stars, star athletes, novelists, cowboys, astronauts, or whatever we dreamed of at one point. Most of us learned to accept that. Others congregate with their fellow failures, and commiserate (over drinks and a round of songs at the local piano bar). ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2000, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-joels-piano-man/7084/27 "2000-02-12T14:11:00Z")
Well, I’d say that the careers you named are huge on star-power, and not much else. Many people I know love what they do. It doesn’t mean they are glamorous, only that they love deeply what they do to pay the bills. A lot of people don’t, true enough. But many people do. I do what I’ve wanted to do since I was 14. It’s all I’ve ever dreamt of, and in fact, yesterday morning was saying to my assistant that some days, it’s the greatest job in the world. Yesterday happened to be one of those days… Cartooniverse * * * If you want to kiss the sky, you’d better learn how to kneel. ---
**Author:** ![Felinecare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Felinecare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Felinecare)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2000, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-joels-piano-man/7084/28 "2000-02-12T21:19:00Z")
This thread brings to mind an Edwin McCain phrase I can’t understand: _…I’ll be your crying shoulder I’ll be love’s suicide I’ll be better when I’m older I’ll be the greatest man in your life._ Leaving aside who is crying on whose shoulder, I myself would reject anyone who proclaimed he was love’s suicide. But maybe that’s just me, or I’ve misheard the lyrics. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2024, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-joels-piano-man/7084/29 "2024-08-19T18:50:53Z")
Bumped. Joel discusses the lyrics, and a recent interpretation of them: [Billy Joel breaks down his 'Piano Man' lyrics about 'real estate novelist' Paul](https://www.aol.com/news/billy-joel-breaks-down-piano-191634235.html) ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2024, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-joels-piano-man/7084/30 "2024-08-19T19:21:06Z")
From the article: > “Well, there’s this new [theory](https://x.com/BaldBryan/status/1123082982003171329?lang=en) out there now, that it’s actually about a gay bar,” said Joel. > > “I was reading this. And I said, ‘Oh, I see how that could be.’ Paul is talking to Davy, who’s in the Navy, you know,” continued Joel, who began singing the Village People’s 1979 disco hit “In the Navy,” which was embraced as an anthem by the LGTBQ community. > > “So, yeah, there’s a whole theory about it. He doesn’t have time for a wife,” he added. No word on the old guy fucking the mixed drink. ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2024, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-joels-piano-man/7084/31 "2024-08-19T19:29:24Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > He doesn’t have time for a wife I always thought about it in the context of not wanting it. When I was younger, “I don’t have time for it” was a shorthand for I don’t want to. Hey, bring me a beer. I don’t have time for it. (or if you were in a surly mood ‘I can’t fuck with it’) ---
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2024, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-joels-piano-man/7084/32 "2024-08-19T19:42:48Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > The waitress is a law student, and is only putting up with this lousy job until she gets her degree and moves into politics. I always thought the “politics” the waitress was practicing consisted of putting up with lecherous, drunken men in order to get tipped. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2024, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-joels-piano-man/7084/33 "2024-08-19T19:49:39Z")
Now that this thread is old enough to go into a bar, I think it should be sent to Café Society. 😀 ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2024, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-joels-piano-man/7084/34 "2024-08-19T19:52:56Z")
> [@Myron\_Van\_Horowitzski](#): > > when I wore a younger man’s clothes…” > What the hell is that about? Myron is long gone, but I’ve always assumed it was a reference to middle-aged spread: he can’t get into the clothes now that he wore back in his 20s; passage of time, etc., without the successes he had dreamed of. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2024, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-joels-piano-man/7084/35 "2024-08-19T19:54:29Z")
“Making love to his tonic and gin” — I always took that to mean that guy didn’t have a wife to go home to. His only relief is to drink. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2024, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-joels-piano-man/7084/36 "2024-08-19T19:55:09Z")
Overall, an amazing song, with lyrics that simply standout. ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2024, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-joels-piano-man/7084/37 "2024-08-19T19:57:52Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Joel discusses the lyrics, and a recent interpretation of them: [Billy Joel breaks down his ‘Piano Man’ lyrics about ‘real estate novelist’ Paul](https://www.aol.com/news/billy-joel-breaks-down-piano-191634235.html) This bit stood out for me: > Joel, who [ended his popular Madison Square Garden residency](https://www.today.com/popculture/music/billy-joel-madison-square-garden-residency-ending-rcna87286) on July 25th, revealed elsewhere during the interview that he sometimes relies on the audience for help with lyrics, especially on his peppy, lyrically dense 1989 hit “We Didn’t Start the Fire.” > > “You mess up one lyric in that, it’s a train wreck. So you’ve gotta, gang, bang, bang, bang, bang,” he told Willie, snapping his fingers. > > “You gotta know all the lyrics. And I look down. And there’s always somebody who knows all the words. And I’m following them,” he added, laughing. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2024, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-joels-piano-man/7084/38 "2024-08-19T20:02:58Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Myron is long gone, but I’ve always assumed it was a reference to middle-aged spread: I always figured it was more about fashion. An old guy showing up in some flamboyant outfit looking like he was about to go clubbing would be met with a few stares. ---
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2024, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-joels-piano-man/7084/39 "2024-08-19T20:07:06Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > You can’t call them losers just becaue their dreams won’t come true. That casts 98% of the world as losers, then. But your dreams have to be realistic. Every character in the song is hanging onto unrealistic dreams, losing, and paying the price–which is revealed in the final lines. The opening line of the song says “it’s 9 o’clock on a Saturday, the regular crowd shuffles in”. So we already learn that these characters are not working on succeeding in their dreams…Saturday night is traditionally the high point of the week (compare all the country songs where somebody finds love and excitement at the bar on Sat. night). But these characters are reduced to being a regular at the bar, drowning their sorrows, alone…every weekend. John the bartender wants to “be a movie star”, like a naive12 year old kid. He could have said he wants to go to acting school, or volunteer to be an extra, but no, he wants to jump straight into being a star right away. Davy could have been a young man proudly serving in the navy…But no, he is “still” in the navy, “probably for life” (like a prisoner sentenced to life), because he doesn’t know what else to do with his life. The waitress isn’t a law student, hoping for better things. She is a waitress, and will always be a waitress. She talks about being a politician, but does nothing to achieve it. She could, say, volunteer at the office of the local party headquarters, while waiting tables temporarily…but this bar is not a temporary gig for her…it’s her life, just like John the bartender The real estate novelist who “never had time for a wife” never had enough commitment to either finish his book, or love a wife. The only person who “loves” anything, or is “accomplishing” anything, is the old man…whose lifetime acheivement is loving his tonic and gin. Finally, the song sums it all up for us… but we already know the ending: they are sharing a drink called loneliness, because it’s better than drinking alone, and that’s all they’ve got. A poignant song. With lyrics and characters almost as good as Joni Mitchell’s [Cactus Tree](https://www.google.com/search?q=joni+mitchell+cactus+tree+lyrics&rlz=1C1EJFC_enIL875IL875&oq=joni+mitchell+cactus+&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUqDAgCEAAYFBiHAhiABDIKCAAQABjjAhiABDIHCAEQLhiABDIMCAIQABgUGIcCGIAEMgcIAxAAGIAEMgcIBBAAGIAEMgcIBRAAGIAEMgcIBhAAGIAEMgYIBxBFGDkyCAgIEAAYFhgeMggICRAAGBYYHtIBCTg1NDJqMGoxNagCCbACAQ&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8) I’m surprised that it became a hit on top 40 radio stations. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2024, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-joels-piano-man/7084/40 "2024-08-19T20:09:55Z")
> [@mbh](#): > > This bit stood out for me: That’s been public knowledge for at least a decade. 🙂 > [@Singers, composers, etc. who came to hate something they created](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/singers-composers-etc-who-came-to-hate-something-they-created/689059/43): > > He also hates perforiming “We Didn’t Start the Fire”. He has trouble remembering which order the lyrics are in and has to focus on someone in the audience. He says that real fans always get it right. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-joels-piano-man/7084.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-joels-piano-man/7084.md?page=3)