# Billy Meier, whats the verdict? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 16, 2013, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000 "2013-09-16T20:03:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/181 "2013-09-23T15:04:49Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > That’s a good cover story for when you wake up with a hangover and a sore ass. 😉 “But honey, it’s right there in the medical report-_Severe damage from unknown alien object repeatedly inserted into anal cavity._” ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/182 "2013-09-23T15:08:45Z")
“Don’t lie to me, Billy, you went out in the woods and got drunk with your gay friend Chuck again, didn’t you?” ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/183 "2013-09-23T15:40:48Z")
> [@Smeghead](#): > > Newinitiation: Yes or no, are you actually Billy Meier? Doubt it. Billy is the Queen and Newinitiation, The Bohdi, and Mystic7 are the drones assigned to bring in nectar. Just keep swatting at them and they’ll go away eventually. ---
**Author:** ![mystic7](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecccb3/32.png) [@mystic7](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mystic7)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/184 "2013-09-23T16:55:23Z")
“Bullshit” is the typical response of a flustered pseudo skeptic. But what about the real professional skeptics of the Billy Meier case? The ones who have actually studied some of the Meier material? Well guess what-- the real skeptic are getting hard to find. Many of the past ardent skeptics of Meier are now silent and some are now even supporters. No, this is no bullshit. And no, the Meier material is not going away anytime soon. The opposite is the case --popular awareness of the Meier case is actually growing. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/185 "2013-09-23T17:05:21Z")
> [@mystic7](#): > > “Bullshit” is the typical response of a flustered pseudo skeptic. But what about the real professional skeptics of the Billy Meier case? The ones who have actually studied some of the Meier material? Well guess what-- the real skeptic are getting hard to find. Many of the past ardent skeptics of Meier are now silent and some are now even supporters. > > No, this is no bullshit. And no, the Meier material is not going away anytime soon. The opposite is the case --popular awareness of the Meier case is actually growing. I wasn’t flustered. Answer this: The photo of dinosaurs was clearly from a book, the book is shown next to the photo and the photo itself doesn’t even look like a photo of anything but a page from a book. Why do you believe it’s real? Prophecies are claimed but there’s no published material until after the date of the event. Why do you believe Meier? Several posters have quoted Mr. Meier from his own website and those quotes have been question as to their veracity. Why? ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/186 "2013-09-23T17:13:10Z")
> [@mystic7](#): > > “Bullshit” is the typical response of a flustered pseudo skeptic. It’s also the typical response of reasonable people when exposed to repeated nonsense and woo. No one here is frustrated, we’re just tired of being fed a line of crap by people who can’t form a coherent argument. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/187 "2013-09-23T17:18:42Z")
> [@mystic7](#): > > “Bullshit” is the typical response of a flustered pseudo skeptic. Beautiful. “They keep calling us pseudoscientists…how can we counter that?? I know! Pseudoskeptics!!” Hilarious. > [@](#): > > But what about the real professional skeptics of the Billy Meier case? Professional Billy Meier skeptics? Gee, I wonder why there aren’t a lot of those around. This is another strawman these loonies like to throw around - somehow, because someone came up with some crazy idea, that idea is deserving of serious professional study on par with medicine or economics. The fact that no “Institute for the Study of Billy Meier” exists, employing dozens of PhDs, is somehow proof that we don’t really know whether his theories are nonsense or not. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/188 "2013-09-23T17:25:05Z")
> [@Smeghead](#): > > Beautiful. “They keep calling us pseudoscientists…how can we counter that?? I know! Pseudoskeptics!!” Hilarious. > > Professional Billy Meier skeptics? Gee, I wonder why there aren’t a lot of those around. This is another strawman these loonies like to throw around - somehow, because someone came up with some crazy idea, that idea is deserving of serious professional study on par with medicine or economics. The fact that no “Institute for the Study of Billy Meier” exists, employing dozens of PhDs, is somehow proof that we don’t really know whether his theories are nonsense or not. [iigwest](http://www.iigwest.com/investigations/meier/), which was linked to earlier in the thread, does a real good job of deconstructing the Meier case. One of our Meier fanboys claimed that site is full of holes but declined to explain. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/189 "2013-09-23T18:02:29Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > [iigwest](http://www.iigwest.com/investigations/meier/), which was linked to earlier in the thread, does a real good job of deconstructing the Meier case. Sure, but is he a professional skeptic of Meier or just a hobbyist? This is important, you know. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/190 "2013-09-23T18:08:59Z")
> [@mystic7](#): > > “Bullshit” is the typical response of a flustered pseudo skeptic. But what about the real professional skeptics of the Billy Meier case? The ones who have actually studied some of the Meier material? Well guess what-- the real skeptic are getting hard to find. That’s because what Meier is peddling is such transparent bullshit, there’s really not a lot of need for people to spend time debunking him. For 99% of humanity, simply showing them one of Meier’s UFO pictures, without any further commentary, is enough to reveal him as a fraud. > [@](#): > > Many of the past ardent skeptics of Meier are now silent and some are now even supporters. No, they aren’t. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/191 "2013-09-23T18:22:57Z")
Ladies and Gentlemen, welcome to another episode of What’s My Line? In today’s fascinating and fast-paced show, three candidates have been pretending to be [Michael Horn](http://www.iigwest.com/investigations/meier/horn.shtml). > [@](#): > > Michael Horn is the North American Publicist for the alleged UFO Contactee, Eduard Albert “Billy” Meier. As the publicist for the case he runs the website [www.theyfly.com](http://www.theyfly.com). He uses this website to publish many articles in support of the case. In August of 2008 he admitted to intentionally posting false and misleading articles in order to deceive the public about the claims of Billy Meier. > > Michael has a tendency to engage in a series of logical fallacies whenever “debating” anyone who asks a critical question regarding the case. For example, Michael has said: > > ``` > "My protocol is to reach out to the skeptics, a few times if necessary, challenge them and then engage in the debate. I consider no response to be admission of failure and defeat." > > ``` > > It is difficult to deal with someone who does not know how to think rationally. His behavior is that of a “true believer” and no amount of information demonstrating how Billy Meier could have created his evidence without the assistance of extra-terrestrials will ever change his mind. > > Michael Horn also repeatedly claims to have won the IIG Paranormal Challenge. This is simply not true. The IIG Paranormal Challenge is available to any individual that can prove, in a controlled setting, that they have abilities that are outside the norm. The Challenge began in 2002 with a $5,000 award and it is currently a $50,000 award. At no time in the history of the Challenge has Michael Horn, or more specifically Billy Meier, ever submitted an application for the award. Three contestants have been trying to fool the panel. Yet only one of the three is the real deal. Is it TheBodhi? Newintuition? Mystic7? We’ll reveal the real Michael Horn right after this commercial break. ---
**Author:** ![newinitiation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@newinitiation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newinitiation)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/192 "2013-09-23T18:34:18Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Ladies and Gentlemen, welcome to another episode of What’s My Line? In today’s fascinating and fast-paced show, three candidates have been pretending to be [Michael Horn](http://www.iigwest.com/investigations/meier/horn.shtml). > > Three contestants have been trying to fool the panel. Yet only one of the three is the real deal. Is it TheBodhi? Newintuition? Mystic7? > > We’ll reveal the real Michael Horn right after this commercial break. We’ve seen all this tripe before on so many numerous occasions where people who can’t refute hard facts conveniently constructe a straw man and argue against it with their fallacious ideas resting on absurd premise. You are yet to deal with any of the facts presented and engaging in name calling is the worst from of argument because the one who engages in it have nothing intelligent to say. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/193 "2013-09-23T18:36:41Z")
> [@newinitiation](#): > > You are yet to deal with any of the facts presented and engaging in name calling is the worst from of argument because the one who engages in it have nothing intelligent to say. You could try presenting facts that we can argue about. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/194 "2013-09-23T18:36:44Z")
> [@newinitiation](#): > > We’ve seen all this tripe before on so many numerous occasions where people who can’t refute hard facts conveniently constructe a straw man and argue against it with their fallacious ideas resting on absurd premise. > > You are yet to deal with any of the facts presented and engaging in name calling is the worst from of argument because the one who engages in it have nothing intelligent to say. I’ve seen all the “facts” you and your pals have presented to us. “Bullshit” is both the most intelligent and most polite thing that can be said about them. ---
**Author:** ![newinitiation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@newinitiation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newinitiation)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/195 "2013-09-23T18:37:39Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > That’s because what Meier is peddling is such transparent bullshit, there’s really not a lot of need for people to spend time debunking him. For 99% of humanity, simply showing them one of Meier’s UFO pictures, without any further commentary, is enough to reveal him as a fraud. > > No, they aren’t. Well show us your proof as to why it is bullshit in your mind You haven’t dealt with the facts of the case at all but merely thrown a few expletives which contributes nothing to what would be deemed an intelligent argument ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/196 "2013-09-23T18:38:48Z")
> [@newinitiation](#): > > We’ve seen all this tripe before on so many numerous occasions where people who can’t refute hard facts conveniently constructe a straw man and argue against it with their fallacious ideas resting on absurd premise. > > You are yet to deal with any of the facts presented and engaging in name calling is the worst from of argument because the one who engages in it have nothing intelligent to say. I hear you. Back in my day, even implying that somebody might be a “Michael Horn” was a sure way to start a fist fight. There are some things a man could let slide, but being called “Michael Horn” is far beyond the pale. ---
**Author:** ![newinitiation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@newinitiation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newinitiation)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/197 "2013-09-23T18:38:59Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I’ve seen all the “facts” you and your pals have presented to us. “Bullshit” is both the most intelligent and most polite thing that can be said about them. But you’ve never presented nothing in the way to prove your point by dealing with the facts of the Meier case ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/198 "2013-09-23T18:39:50Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > I wasn’t flustered. > Answer this: The photo of dinosaurs was clearly from a book, the book is shown next to the photo and the photo itself doesn’t even look like a photo of anything but a page from a book. > Why do you believe it’s real? > > Prophecies are claimed but there’s no published material until after the date of the event. > Why do you believe Meier? > > Several posters have quoted Mr. Meier from his own website and those quotes have been question as to their veracity. > Why? > [@newinitiation](#): > > Well show us your proof as to why it is bullshit in your mind > You haven’t dealt with the facts of the case at all but merely thrown a few expletives which contributes nothing to what would be deemed an intelligent argument I asked some direct questions. I want some answers. You,ve been shown where Meier’s claims don’t hold up. ---
**Author:** ![newinitiation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@newinitiation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newinitiation)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/199 "2013-09-23T18:40:43Z")
> [@DrFidelius](#): > > I hear you. Back in my day, even implying that somebody might be a “Michael Horn” was a sure way to start a fist fight. There are some things a man could let slide, but being called “Michael Horn” is far beyond the pale. No its actually a compliment thank you very much but unless some people are schizoid I cannot possibly imagine how people would mistake us for Michael ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/200 "2013-09-23T18:41:03Z")
> [@newinitiation](#): > > We’ve seen all this tripe before on so many numerous occasions where people who can’t refute hard facts conveniently constructe a straw man and argue against it with their fallacious ideas resting on absurd premise. > > You are yet to deal with any of the facts presented and engaging in name calling is the worst from of argument because the one who engages in it have nothing intelligent to say. And we have a winner! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000.md?page=11)