# Billy Meier, whats the verdict? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 16, 2013, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000 "2013-09-16T20:03:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/241 "2013-09-23T19:56:29Z")
Provided many links and rebutted claims of fraudulence are not synonymous. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/242 "2013-09-23T19:56:59Z")
> [@newinitiation](#): > > Gee I have provided many links to the contentions people have made here which will no doubt answer and address their refutations so what is your problem? That none of your links say what you claim they say. ---
**Author:** ![newinitiation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@newinitiation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newinitiation)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/243 "2013-09-23T19:59:10Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Provided many links and rebutted claims of fraudulence are not synonymous. No but you are making the claim that its a fraud to which those links provided will unequivocally rebutt claims of fradulence and hence its relevance ---
**Author:** ![newinitiation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@newinitiation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newinitiation)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/244 "2013-09-23T20:03:32Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > That none of your links say what you claim they say. Oh rubbish Have you even read any of it Yeah I didn’t think so So much for honesty And yet the most vociferous among the crtics here are the ones who have done the least amount of investigation and research into whether Billy Meier’s claims are truth or false. So how do they know even what they are talking about? Well they have nothing to show for and hence they resort to the inevitable tactics of infantile name calling and hurling abuses at it without any solid grounds ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/245 "2013-09-23T20:12:30Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Another vote for bullshit. Me too. Ladies and gentlemen, we’ve reached a verdict. Now let the sentencing phase begin. ---
**Author:** ![newinitiation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@newinitiation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newinitiation)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/246 "2013-09-23T20:13:52Z")
I mean it just doesn’t end at how amazing Billy’s ability to tell the truth many years before our scientists have come up with their findings. > **[Back to the Future with Egg on Their Faces » Billy Meier UFO Contacts](https://theyflyblog.com/2013/09/back-to-the-future-with-egg-on-their-faces/)** > > In another example of going back to the future, science is once again slowly catching up with the information published by UFO contactee Billy Meier. Simply rotate the image presented in the new article in the international science journal, nature,... ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/247 "2013-09-23T20:15:03Z")
> [@newinitiation](#): > > Have you even read any of it Read it?? I keep quoting from it!! And it’s the most damaging part of this thread!! Go, Billy!! (I’ve added extra punctuation marks for you to borrow, since your office manager seems to have forgotten to reorder them.) ---
**Author:** ![newinitiation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@newinitiation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newinitiation)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/248 "2013-09-23T20:15:53Z")
> [@CurtC](#): > > Me too. > > Ladies and gentlemen, we’ve reached a verdict. Now let the sentencing phase begin. Gees now I find out that I am conversing with primary grade children, my bad ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/249 "2013-09-23T20:17:44Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > I looked through your second link. Total fabrication from front to back. The UFO in the driveway is obviously a small model, Ray Charles could see that. The UFO “hovering” over the trees is sitting on the top of the tree, you can see the bent branches. I read through the second link on a whim, but wow, it’s about the deepest pile of crap masquerading as scientific jargon as I’ve ever seen. It’s a never ending spew of nonsense, without basis in reality or logic. Refuting it is meaningless, as there’s nothing in it worth bothering with. However, if you take a step back, it’s almost hypnotic in its ludicrous nature. It goes beyond pseudo-scientific claptrap to a veritable masterpiece of a mind so warped as to barely resemble a rational being. The absurd leaps of logic, the manic hand-waving, the lack of understanding of basic rules of science, rhetoric, and grammar make it a wonder to behold. Absurdist street theater in the form of a white paper. If he could package this as interpretive dance he’d have a surefire hit on Broadway. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/250 "2013-09-23T20:17:53Z")
> [@newinitiation](#): > > My apologies Gary I didn’t know that this function would turn out this way hence a one off mistake. Thank you. > [@newinitiation](#): > > Now I am not here to argue but to present factual information to counter people’s misinformation and prejudice driven lies about the Billy Meier case. I eagerly await your first fact. So far, all you have presented is hypothesis grounded in no fact at all, and every time people present you with solid evidence (or quote back what you asked them to read and point out why it’s BS), you blow them off. ---
**Author:** ![newinitiation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@newinitiation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newinitiation)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/251 "2013-09-23T20:24:36Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Read it?? I keep quoting from it!! And it’s the most damaging part of this thread!! Go, Billy!! > (I’ve added extra punctuation marks for you to borrow, since your office manager seems to have forgotten to reorder them.) Well what have you quoted to deserve the remark ‘I keep quoting from it!’ In two previous posts you have only quoted excerpts from Questions to Billy - Answered (From the Discussionboard of FIGU). Creation and the Absolute Absolutum Purpose in Life About Billy Meier and Nokodemion And you call this research!? ---
**Author:** ![newinitiation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@newinitiation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newinitiation)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/252 "2013-09-23T20:26:18Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > I read through the second link on a whim, but wow, it’s about the deepest pile of crap masquerading as scientific jargon as I’ve ever seen. It’s a never ending spew of nonsense, without basis in reality or logic. Refuting it is meaningless, as there’s nothing in it worth bothering with. > > However, if you take a step back, it’s almost hypnotic in its ludicrous nature. It goes beyond pseudo-scientific claptrap to a veritable masterpiece of a mind so warped as to barely resemble a rational being. The absurd leaps of logic, the manic hand-waving, the lack of understanding of basic rules of science, rhetoric, and grammar make it a wonder to behold. > > Absurdist street theater in the form of a white paper. If he could package this as interpretive dance he’d have a surefire hit on Broadway. So what exactly do you pretend to have read Deal with each aspect of those findings if you are honest enough ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/253 "2013-09-23T20:28:31Z")
> [@newinitiation](#): > > Oh rubbish > > Have you even read any of it Yes, I have. I honestly don’t understand how anyone can look at it and think, “Yep, that makes total sense.” It’s the most absurd conflation of fantasy, z-grade camera tricks, and schizophrenic ravings that I’ve ever seen. A child could see that it’s nonsense. I mean, what do you say to someone who looks at [this](http://theness.com/neurologicablog/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/meier-WC1.jpg) and thinks it’s an honest-to-god spaceship? The picture is so hokey and amateurish, it debunks itself. Anyone who’s fooled by that, is not going to have the capacity to process any more sophisticated debunking effort. ---
**Author:** ![newinitiation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@newinitiation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newinitiation)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/254 "2013-09-23T20:28:35Z")
[quote=“Gary “Wombat” Robson, post:250, topic:669000”] Thank you. I eagerly await your first fact. So far, all you have presented is hypothesis grounded in no fact at all, and every time people present you with solid evidence (or quote back what you asked them to read and point out why it’s BS), you blow them off. [/QUOTE] Ok lets deal with the metal samples shall we > **[The Future Of Mankind - A Billy Meier Wiki - The Metal Alloy](https://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/The_Metal_Alloy)** ---
**Author:** ![newinitiation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@newinitiation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newinitiation)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/255 "2013-09-23T20:31:08Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Yes, I have. I honestly don’t understand how anyone can look at it and think, “Yep, that makes total sense.” It’s the most absurd conflation of fantasy, z-grade camera tricks, and schizophrenic ravings that I’ve ever seen. A child could see that it’s nonsense. > > I mean, what do you say to someone who looks at [this](http://theness.com/neurologicablog/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/meier-WC1.jpg) and thinks it’s an honest-to-god spaceship? The picture is so hokey and amateurish, it debunks itself. Anyone who’s fooled by that, is not going to have the capacity to process any more sophisticated debunking effort. But you haven’t provided any scientific analysis to back up your claim that it is a model whilst FIGU supporters have that its really a real UFO > **[Zahi\_WCUFO%20Investigation.pdf](https://www.tjresearch.info/Zahi_WCUFO%20Investigation.pdf)** ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/256 "2013-09-23T20:36:29Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I mean, what do you say to someone who looks at [this](http://theness.com/neurologicablog/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/meier-WC1.jpg) and thinks it’s an honest-to-god spaceship? The picture is so hokey and amateurish, it debunks itself. Especially when it looks a lot like [this.](http://iigwest.org/investigations/meier/images/weddingcakescaled.jpg) It’s a fancy garbage can lid. Which is oddly appropriate. Or appropriately odd. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/257 "2013-09-23T20:37:32Z")
“At this point the specimen was being carried on Dr Vogel’s person, in a small plastic envelope, to Ames Research Laboratories for still more exotic tests, when the metal specimen simply disappeared leaving the envelope completely undisturbed.” This sentence renders the entirety of the suppositions about the alloy worthless. Without the specimen or any way to duplicate Vogel’s results, we cannot determine whether those results are true, an artifact of laboratory contamination or error, or simply fraud. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/258 "2013-09-23T20:44:23Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > “At this point the specimen was being carried on Dr Vogel’s person, in a small plastic envelope, to _Ames_ Research Laboratories for still more exotic tests, when the metal specimen simply disappeared leaving the envelope completely undisturbed.” I misread this as _Acme_ Research Laboratories, probably because the whole thing sounds like a bad Roadrunner episode. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/259 "2013-09-23T20:44:28Z")
> [@newinitiation](#): > > This question is ludicrous > > Maybe its better that you answer your own question on this one You can’t even answer one simple question straightforwardly, can you? Yes? Or no? Are you him or are you not? I can’t answer it myself, obviously, because I am - thankfully - not you. You seem to have a severe allergy to communicating without a fog of obfuscation. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/260 "2013-09-23T20:46:41Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > I misread this as _Acme_ Research Laboratories, probably because the whole thing sounds like a bad Roadrunner episode. It could be; I typed it by hand (like an animal!) and quite possibly typo-ed it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000.md?page=14)