# Billy Meier, whats the verdict? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 16, 2013, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000 "2013-09-16T20:03:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/281 "2013-09-24T02:55:19Z")
> [@newinitiation](#): > > **Just because it looks like a garbage can lid** doesn’t mean that you have provided irrefutable evidence beyond a reasonable doubt to prove that it is. > > You have provided no evidence to back up your claim so where is it? And you’ve ducked every direct question put to you. If it quacks like a duck, looks like a duck and tastes like a duck, it sure as hell isn’t a larch. ---
**Author:** ![newinitiation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@newinitiation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newinitiation)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/282 "2013-09-24T02:59:33Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > You completely mis-represented what I said. > This is 2013. Why are there no recent films using the latest tech? Or did the last visit occur in the 70s? > For that matter, I had a movie camera in the 70s and the films I took were crisp and clear. (I know how to use the focus knob) > > I would also ask how do these beings travel so many light years and manage to get stuck in the only tree for miles around? Repeatedly. To answer your question they park their beamship for reference and comparisons sake. As Billy said if people aren’t satisfied with the evidence available no amount of additional proof material will ever convince them otherwise and so no point in providing more. He isn’t allowed to forceably provide evidence in such a way that semi-plausible deniability factor is denied because people who cannot handle the truth will not be able to come to terms with the implications of his contact case and the realities of the existence of other life forms throughout the universe. they will go crazy ---
**Author:** ![newinitiation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@newinitiation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newinitiation)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/283 "2013-09-24T03:04:08Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > There are millions of people who have seen the Towers, worked in the Towers, visited the Towers and have in many ways interacted with the Towers. There are blueprints, permits and loads of paperwork from the construction. Thousands worked to build the Towers. So what does that fact prove except to add more credibility to the conclusions about the metal samples as its documented in this documentary I have provided the links for. The metal sample can be seen with your own eyes in this films so what better example of proof than that? ---
**Author:** ![newinitiation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@newinitiation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newinitiation)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/284 "2013-09-24T03:05:55Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > And you’ve ducked every direct question put to you. > > If it quacks like a duck, looks like a duck and tastes like a duck, it sure as hell isn’t a larch. Ducked!? I have provided the links to the proof material you fellas desperately wanted to satisfy your questions put forth to me but you won’t look at it so who is calling the kettle black ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/285 "2013-09-24T03:09:26Z")
> [@newinitiation](#): > > So what does that fact prove except to add more credibility to the conclusions about the metal samples as its documented in this documentary I have provided the links for. > > The metal sample can be seen with your own eyes in this films so what better example of proof than that? > [@newinitiation](#): > > Ducked!? > > I have provided the links to the proof material you fellas desperately wanted to satisfy your questions put forth to me but you won’t look at it so who is calling the kettle black Here’s a periodic table with photos. Notice how much various metals look like one another. Notice how you cannot determine the properties of almost all metals by sight. You have not linked to independent publications that can verify the date and content of publication. ---
**Author:** ![newinitiation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@newinitiation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newinitiation)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/286 "2013-09-24T03:12:35Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > This board reacts so strongly because we recognize utter crap when we see it and it must be debunked for crap unchallenged is crap that spreads. > > You have not taken a neutral position. You ignore direct questions. > You also have no idea what [plausible deniability](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plausible_deniability) means. > Why do you want a ruling on neutrality? How about a ruling on false or true? > And the evidence has no quality though i will admit there is a huge amount of quantity. You could fertilize Texas with it. Shame on you runner pat the term plausible deniability mean many more things than what you have ignorantly ascribed to in singularity with the other missing definition. here This is one other meaning taken from wikipedia Plausible deniability is also a legal concept. It refers to lack of evidence proving an allegation. Standards of proof vary in civil and criminal cases. In civil cases, the standard of proof is “preponderance of the evidence” whereas in a criminal matter, the standard is “beyond a reasonable doubt.” If an opponent lacks incontrovertible proof (evidence) of their allegation, one can “plausibly deny” the allegation even though it may be true. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/287 "2013-09-24T03:12:44Z")
> [@newinitiation](#): > > Oh rubbish just look at the sphere do they look and reflect in a convoluted manner as your argument is? This is not a convoluted argument at all. This is a very simple concept that you can see demonstrated every day just by looking in the passenger side mirror of any car in America. ---
**Author:** ![newinitiation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@newinitiation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newinitiation)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/288 "2013-09-24T03:20:23Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > Here’s a periodic table with photos. Notice how much various metals look like one another. Notice how you cannot determine the properties of almost all metals by sight. > > You have not linked to independent publications that can verify the date and content of publication. Here it is [http://www.theyfly.com/preliminary\_investigaton.html](http://www.theyfly.com/preliminary_investigaton.html) ---
**Author:** ![newinitiation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@newinitiation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newinitiation)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/289 "2013-09-24T03:22:09Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > You know, I think we’re beginning to get under their skin. > > Good work. Keep it up. Will do ---
**Author:** ![newinitiation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@newinitiation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newinitiation)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/290 "2013-09-24T03:23:38Z")
> [@mystic7](#): > > When something is just “bullshit” it doesn’t cause such a reaction as demonstrated on this message board. > > I see incredible reactivation going on here from this subject. > > It’s clear to me the Meier case is having very big impact on the participants of this forum. You guys know you’re promoting the Meier case with such conflated discussions don’t you? > I here by offer some possible explanations for all of the heated discussions > > 1. The Billy Meier Case is of immense importance to humanity. > 2. The Meier Case is True. > 3. The Meier case has not been and cannot be debunked Mystic7 how true how very true ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/291 "2013-09-24T03:24:02Z")
> [@newinitiation](#): > > Shame on you runner pat the term plausible deniability mean many more things than what you have ignorantly ascribed to in singularity with the other missing definition. > > here > > This is one other meaning taken from wikipedia > > Plausible deniability is also a legal concept. It refers to lack of evidence proving an allegation. Standards of proof vary in civil and criminal cases. In civil cases, the standard of proof is “preponderance of the evidence” whereas in a criminal matter, the standard is “beyond a reasonable doubt.” If an opponent lacks incontrovertible proof (evidence) of their allegation, one can “plausibly deny” the allegation even though it may be true. There is no lack of evidence proving that Meier is a fraud. You’ve been asked some direct questions. Why do you refuse to answer? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/292 "2013-09-24T03:25:31Z")
> [@newinitiation](#): > > Here it is > > [http://www.theyfly.com/preliminary\_investigaton.html](http://www.theyfly.com/preliminary_investigaton.html) When was it published? And why should I spend money when you could quote the relevant passage? Linking to some report I can’t read proves nothing. ---
**Author:** ![newinitiation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@newinitiation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newinitiation)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/293 "2013-09-24T03:25:46Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > This is not a convoluted argument at all. This is a very simple concept that you can see demonstrated every day just by looking in the passenger side mirror of any car in America. Yeah and so it also applies to the spheres in the photo as it is so evident that they are perfectly spherical ---
**Author:** ![newinitiation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@newinitiation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newinitiation)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/294 "2013-09-24T03:28:16Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > When was it published? And why should I spend money when you could quote the relevant passage? Damn it do your own research I am not going to be the baby sitter doing all the feeding when people can do it themselves not that i have access to the document right now blimy! ---
**Author:** ![newinitiation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@newinitiation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newinitiation)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/295 "2013-09-24T03:29:26Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > There is no lack of evidence proving that Meier is a fraud. > > You’ve been asked some direct questions. Why do you refuse to answer? What have you asked me directly which haven’t been addressed before huh? ---
**Author:** ![newinitiation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@newinitiation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newinitiation)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/296 "2013-09-24T03:30:49Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > The irony here is so delicious, it must be bad for me. The irony is the missing irony ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/297 "2013-09-24T03:31:55Z")
> [@newinitiation](#): > > Yeah and so it also applies to the spheres in the photo as it is so evident that they are perfectly spherical That’s not something that can be determined just by looking at the photos. They’re round, sure, but just a few degrees difference can significantly alter the appearance and position of the reflection. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/298 "2013-09-24T03:36:28Z")
> [@newinitiation](#): > > Damn it do your own research I am not going to be the baby sitter doing all the feeding when people can do it themselves not that i have access to the document right now blimy! It does no good to link to something with no publication date that is only available through Meier’s website. > [@newinitiation](#): > > What have you asked me directly which haven’t been addressed before huh? All through the thread. Do your own damn research. ---
**Author:** ![newinitiation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@newinitiation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newinitiation)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/299 "2013-09-24T03:36:53Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > That’s not something that can be determined just by looking at the photos. They’re round, sure, but just a few degrees difference can significantly alter the appearance and position of the reflection. Look logic tells me that if it was a two feet across model of a ufo the frigging sphere would also reflect me standing in front of the damn things taking a picture. Now the fact that you can’t see any figure reflected back from the sphere suggests its an object of relative proportion. The investigation concluded that it had to be at least 3.5m or more [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/JoZKwqptZ2Y/hqdefault.jpg "Yes... it is a real UFO (WCUFO)") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JoZKwqptZ2Y) ---
**Author:** ![newinitiation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@newinitiation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newinitiation)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/300 "2013-09-24T03:37:56Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > It does no good to link to something with no publication date that is only available through Meier’s website. > All through the thread. Do your own damn research. I have answered your question to your hearts content runner so don’t do a runner on me now [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000.md?page=16)