# Billy Meier, whats the verdict? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 16, 2013, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000 "2013-09-16T20:03:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 22
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/421 "2013-09-26T18:23:30Z")
Guys, it looks like he’s right. I just took [this](http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w197/runnerpat/UFOpicture_zpsc5c13020.jpg) out our front door. ---
**Author:** ![newinitiation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@newinitiation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newinitiation)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/422 "2013-09-26T18:27:12Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > So he’s had a \*lot \*of drunken weekends. 😉 > > We’re really gonna miss you when you’re gone. I never said I was going anywhere ---
**Author:** ![newinitiation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@newinitiation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newinitiation)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/423 "2013-09-26T18:28:12Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > Guys, it looks like he’s right. I just took [this](http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w197/runnerpat/UFOpicture_zpsc5c13020.jpg) out our front door. They don’t say trailer trash for nothing Ha ha! ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/424 "2013-09-26T18:30:24Z")
> [@newinitiation](#): > > They don’t say trailer trash for nothing > > Ha ha! That’s Mr. Trailer Trash to you, sonny. You need to learn to respect your elders. ---
**Author:** ![Truman\_Burbank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@Truman\_Burbank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truman_Burbank)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/425 "2013-09-26T18:32:11Z")
So, really, Meiers believers, you don’t see any problem with what you accept as “fact”, and what you dismiss as “not fact”? Breaks me up, if you’re real. Unless you vote… ---
**Author:** ![newinitiation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@newinitiation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newinitiation)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/426 "2013-09-26T18:33:05Z")
> [@Smeghead](#): > > It did?! Oh! Well, then! Aliens are totally real, guys! Consider this evidence with all other information combined as you can only appreciate it when you have dealt with the entirety of the information and piece together the pieces of the jigsaw puzzle. Much as it applies in any court of law you bring together all available evidence you can get your hands on and use it make your case either to prosecute or defend. ---
**Author:** ![newinitiation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@newinitiation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newinitiation)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/427 "2013-09-26T18:34:05Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > That’s Mr. Trailer Trash to you, sonny. You need to learn to respect your elders. Elder? how fucking old are ya to claim respect from someone who might just be older than you son! ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/428 "2013-09-26T18:37:26Z")
> [@newinitiation](#): > > Elder? how fucking old are ya to claim respect from someone who might just be older than you son! Because thinking that calling someone trailer trash is a major insult is about as juvenile as you can get. Not to mention your lack of capitalization and punctuation. ---
**Author:** ![newinitiation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@newinitiation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newinitiation)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/429 "2013-09-26T18:40:55Z")
> [@Truman\_Burbank](#): > > So, really, Meiers believers, you don’t see any problem with what you accept as “fact”, and what you dismiss as “not fact”? > Breaks me up, if you’re real. > Unless you vote… What the fuck You need to deal with the facts as it is presented before you make up your mind in any case A lot hinges on the proof material and evidence and without it the case is closed. Now the evidence itself has to be dealt with in a painstaking manner for it veracity and legitimacy. You’ve got to ask as an investigator how real is this, what are its flaws and why and how does it make sense if it is real. You test it to reality by being logical and impartial without prejudice in order to arrive at the truth of the matter until you can unequivocally prove that it is either a fraud or genuine. Corroboration is the key and in case of the witness testimony, the more unrelated the witness is to the principle in question without coercive force or self interest the more weight it has although personal bias does come into play. There are many independent eyewitnesses who never knew Billy Meier who claims to have seen UFO in the vicinity of where Meier lives. ---
**Author:** ![newinitiation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@newinitiation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newinitiation)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/430 "2013-09-26T18:42:13Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > Because thinking that calling someone trailer trash is a major insult is about as juvenile as you can get. > > Not to mention your lack of capitalization and punctuation. I didn’t call anybody a trailer trash I was referring to the con job of that photo you’ve put up and it happened to be in a trailer park. got it? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/431 "2013-09-26T18:46:17Z")
> [@newinitiation](#): > > I didn’t call anybody a trailer trash > > I was referring to the con job of that photo you’ve put up and it happened to be in a trailer park. > > got it? Now why are you calling that a con job? It’s just as real as any photo Meier put up. The only difference is everybody knows mine is a joke. ---
**Author:** ![Truman\_Burbank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@Truman\_Burbank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truman_Burbank)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/432 "2013-09-26T18:47:11Z")
> [@newinitiation](#): > > What the fuck > > You need to deal with the facts as it is presented before you make up your mind in any case > > A lot hinges on the proof material and evidence and without it the case is closed. > > Now the evidence itself has to be dealt with in a painstaking manner for it veracity and legitimacy. > > You’ve got to ask as an investigator how real is this, what are its flaws and why and how does it make sense if it is real. > > You test it to reality by being logical and impartial without prejudice in order to arrive at the truth of the matter until you can unequivocally prove that it is either a fraud or genuine. > > Corroboration is the key and in case of the witness testimony, the more unrelated the witness is to the principle in question without coercive force or self interest the more weight it has although personal bias does come into play. > > There are many independent eyewitnesses who never knew Billy Meier who claims to have seen UFO in the vicinity of where Meier lives. Right, OK. And when someone says “I had real evidence, but I can’t give it to you now, because the aliens came back and substituted fake evidence, which I hadn’t noticed until just now, when you pointed out to me that the pictures of aliens were dancers on a TV variety show, no, really!” that works for you, huh? Ever hear of Occam’s Razor? ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/433 "2013-09-26T18:48:09Z")
> [@newinitiation](#): > > Now the evidence itself has to be dealt with in a painstaking manner for it veracity and legitimacy. > > You’ve got to ask as an investigator how real is this, what are its flaws and why and how does it make sense if it is real. > > You test it to reality by being logical and impartial without prejudice in order to arrive at the truth of the matter until you can unequivocally prove that it is either a fraud or genuine. [\*The burden of proof lies with someone who is making a claim](https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/burden-of-proof), and is not upon anyone else to disprove. The inability, or disinclination, to disprove a claim does not render that claim valid, nor give it any credence whatsoever. However it is important to note that we can never be certain of anything, and so we must assign value to any claim based on the available evidence, and to dismiss something on the basis that it hasn’t been proven beyond all doubt is also fallacious reasoning. Example: Bertrand declares that a teapot is, at this very moment, in orbit around the Sun between the Earth and Mars, and that because no one can prove him wrong, his claim is therefore a valid one."\* Since you are essentially asking us to believe in the orbiting teapot on the basis of shlock non-evidence, you remain stuck in fallacy-land. ---
**Author:** ![newinitiation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@newinitiation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newinitiation)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/434 "2013-09-26T18:50:09Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > Now why are you calling that a con job? It’s just as real as any photo Meier put up. > The only difference is everybody knows mine is a joke. Well I gathered that but who the fuck is joking here, not that I am in the mood for it. It isn’t comparable nor insinuatory with your reference ---
**Author:** ![Truman\_Burbank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@Truman\_Burbank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truman_Burbank)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/435 "2013-09-26T18:54:27Z")
Also, to this: You need to deal with the facts as it is presented before you make up your mind in any case. I would add, we unavoidably also build upon facts previously established. It has been well established that hoaxers can fool the gullible. therefore, that hypothesis should be considered _first_. You seem quite secure that despite all of our debunking and evidence that this is a hoax, that you are not gullible, you’re just one of the few that has accepted ‘the truth’. It is probable to the point of certainty, based upon the evidence of this thread, that you are, in fact, being gullible. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/436 "2013-09-26T18:54:38Z")
> [@newinitiation](#): > > You’ve got to ask as an investigator how real is this, what are its flaws and why and how does it make sense if it is real. Just who is qualified to be an investigator? How do we find such an individual? BTW I would counsel patience. From your posts, I gather it took quite a while for you to be convinced. Yet, you seem to want us to accept that Billy is telling the truth right away. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/437 "2013-09-26T18:54:54Z")
Did aliens provide you with this interesting new vocabulary you keep introducing to the rest of us? ---
**Author:** ![newinitiation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@newinitiation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newinitiation)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/438 "2013-09-26T18:55:32Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > [\*The burden of proof lies with someone who is making a claim](https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/burden-of-proof), and is not upon anyone else to disprove. The inability, or disinclination, to disprove a claim does not render that claim valid, nor give it any credence whatsoever. However it is important to note that we can never be certain of anything, and so we must assign value to any claim based on the available evidence, and to dismiss something on the basis that it hasn’t been proven beyond all doubt is also fallacious reasoning. > > Example: Bertrand declares that a teapot is, at this very moment, in orbit around the Sun between the Earth and Mars, and that because no one can prove him wrong, his claim is therefore a valid one."\* > > Since you are essentially asking us to believe in the orbiting teapot on the basis of shlock non-evidence, you remain stuck in fallacy-land. Bullshit! People who won’t deal with the evidence and proof material presented are the ones in the la la land of denial making all the fallacious arguments when they know that their position rests on reductio ad absurdum without a logical premise based on evidence of absence ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/439 "2013-09-26T18:55:58Z")
> [@newinitiation](#): > > Get a refund I can’t. I had them implanted when the Beta Reticuloids gave me a time-travel trip to ancient Babylon, and I didn’t keep the receipt. Although in my defense, the receipt looked like[this](http://images.metmuseum.org/CRDImages/an/web-large/DP247102.jpg), which was really hard to fit in my wallet. ---
**Author:** ![newinitiation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@newinitiation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newinitiation)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/440 "2013-09-26T18:59:25Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > Just who is qualified to be an investigator? How do we find such an individual? > BTW I would counsel patience. From your posts, I gather it took quite a while for you to be convinced. Yet, you seem to want us to accept that Billy is telling the truth right away. No you can only convince yourself not by the need or want but by the truth of the evidence presented. If I accused you of killing someone, does that make you a killer? If you accuse Billy of being a fraud you have to prove it with evidence just as I have to prove that you have killed someone if I am to make my case. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000.md?page=21) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000.md?page=23)