# Billy Meier, whats the verdict? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 16, 2013, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000 "2013-09-16T20:03:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 23
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/441 "2013-09-26T19:03:16Z")
> [@newinitiation](#): > > No you can only convince yourself not by the need or want but by the truth of the evidence presented. > > If I accused you of killing someone, does that make you a killer? > > If you accuse Billy of being a fraud you have to prove it with evidence just as I have to prove that you have killed someone if I am to make my case. You really, really do not understand how this burden of proof thing works, do you? ---
**Author:** ![Truman\_Burbank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@Truman\_Burbank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truman_Burbank)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/442 "2013-09-26T19:03:59Z")
> [@newinitiation](#): > > (snip)If you accuse Billy of being a fraud you have to prove it with evidence just as I have to prove that you have killed someone if I am to make my case. And when someone says “I had real evidence, but I can’t give it to you now, because the aliens came back and substituted fake evidence, which I hadn’t noticed until just now, when you pointed out to me that the pictures of aliens were dancers on a TV variety show, no, really!” OK, done. Next? ---
**Author:** ![newinitiation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@newinitiation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newinitiation)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/443 "2013-09-26T19:05:09Z")
> [@Truman\_Burbank](#): > > Also, to this: You need to deal with the facts as it is presented before you make up your mind in any case. > > I would add, we unavoidably also build upon facts previously established. It has been well established that hoaxers can fool the gullible. therefore, that hypothesis should be considered _first_. You seem quite secure that despite all of our debunking and evidence that this is a hoax, that you are not gullible, you’re just one of the few that has accepted ‘the truth’. > It is probable to the point of certainty, based upon the evidence of this thread, that you are, in fact, being gullible. On what basis but also what have you provided in the way of evidence to prove that Billy faked his material I haven’t seen you present anything so far so what are you basing your claims on? Nothing so far but insinuations ---
**Author:** ![newinitiation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@newinitiation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newinitiation)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/444 "2013-09-26T19:06:11Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I can’t. I had them implanted when the Beta Reticuloids gave me a time-travel trip to ancient Babylon, and I didn’t keep the receipt. > > Although in my defense, the receipt looked like[this](http://images.metmuseum.org/CRDImages/an/web-large/DP247102.jpg), which was really hard to fit in my wallet. Well I am afraid you are stuffed then ---
**Author:** ![newinitiation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@newinitiation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newinitiation)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/445 "2013-09-26T19:07:47Z")
> [@Smeghead](#): > > Did aliens provide you with this interesting new vocabulary you keep introducing to the rest of us? Didn’t you take compulsory English classes at school? ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/446 "2013-09-26T19:08:12Z")
I’m sorry. We have too many scientists here and not enough lawyers to agree with your approach to determining “Truth.” Truth is defined by how closely a given observation matches other observations in controlled environments. It is not based upon which advocate can argue best. ---
**Author:** ![newinitiation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@newinitiation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newinitiation)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/447 "2013-09-26T19:10:31Z")
> [@Truman\_Burbank](#): > > And when someone says “I had real evidence, but I can’t give it to you now, because the aliens came back and substituted fake evidence, which I hadn’t noticed until just now, when you pointed out to me that the pictures of aliens were dancers on a TV variety show, no, really!” > > OK, done. Next? Come on for crying out loud Compare these two ladies in the photo Do they look like the same people to you I mean really > **[TheyFly.com - The Billy Meier UFO Contacts - Asket & Nera Photos](http://theyfly.com/Asket_%26_Nera.htm)** Go to 'Meier alien photo and compare it with Dean Martin “ding-a-ling” photo ---
**Author:** ![newinitiation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@newinitiation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newinitiation)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/448 "2013-09-26T19:12:24Z")
> [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > You really, really do not understand how this burden of proof thing works, do you? I would reassess your own case if I was you before you make this criticism on my own person. ---
**Author:** ![newinitiation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@newinitiation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newinitiation)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/449 "2013-09-26T19:13:25Z")
> [@DrFidelius](#): > > I’m sorry. We have too many scientists here and not enough lawyers to agree with your approach to determining “Truth.” Truth is defined by how closely a given observation matches other observations in controlled environments. It is not based upon which advocate can argue best. Then look at the evidence and not the argument ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/450 "2013-09-26T19:14:42Z")
> [@newinitiation](#): > > Then look at the evidence and not the argument We did, and unreproducable observations are worthless. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![newinitiation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@newinitiation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newinitiation)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/451 "2013-09-26T19:17:23Z")
> [@DrFidelius](#): > > We did, and unreproducable observations are worthless. Sorry. Because that observation is flawed ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/452 "2013-09-26T19:23:45Z")
> [@newinitiation](#): > > Come on for crying out loud > > Compare these two ladies in the photo > > Do they look like the same people to you > > I mean really > > [TheyFly.com - The Billy Meier UFO Contacts - Asket & Nera Photos](http://theyfly.com/Asket_%26_Nera.htm) > > Go to 'Meier alien photo and compare it with Dean Martin “ding-a-ling” photo So why are the fake photos still being used as proof? ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/453 "2013-09-26T19:23:57Z")
> [@newinitiation](#): > > Compare these two ladies in the photo > > Do they look like the same people to you Dude! Look at #110 and the Dean Martin photo. Her hair is styled EXACTLY the same. The same strands of hair fall the same way around her face, there’s the same bright curl under her cheekbone. Of course Meier’s photo is blurrier. That’s bound to happen when you’re invited to photograph an alien woman. Who can be expected to get a solid focus on a stationary subject 10 feet away from you? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/454 "2013-09-26T19:25:54Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Dude! Look at #110 and the Dean Martin photo. Her hair is styled EXACTLY the same. The same strands of hair fall the same way around her face, there’s the same bright curl under her cheekbone. > > Of course Meier’s photo is blurrier. That’s bound to happen when you’re invited to photograph an alien woman. Who can be expected to get a solid focus on a stationary subject 10 feet away from you? Especially with that horribly ancient 70s photo technology. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/455 "2013-09-26T19:26:00Z")
> [@newinitiation](#): > > Because that observation is flawed One of the basic concepts is science is that nature plays fair. If a person in India observes that the Moon reflects about 12% of the sunlight which falls upon it, then a different person in a different country should get the same figures if they measured in the same way. If one person observes that the rare porridge bird lays its eggs in mid-air, then anyone else with access to a porridge bird should be able to confirm that. If they do not see the porridge bird actually laying its eggs, they can find that eggshells consistent with porridge birds are never found in a nest. And other observations that build on the porridge bird’s natural habits. If only one person has ever seen a porridge bird, and we find that the genuine porridge bird feathers he has collected are dyed hen’s feathers, and his recording of the porridge bird’s call are actually tracks from Bob Crosby’s Orchestra, then we have serious doubts of the existence of the porridge bird at all. It does not matter how convincing he is in his Porridge Bird Lectures, until someone else independently confirms that they exist we do not add porridge birds to the textbooks. I hope you understand. ---
**Author:** ![newinitiation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@newinitiation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newinitiation)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/456 "2013-09-26T19:26:31Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > So why are the fake photos still being used as proof? According to whom You claim fake but no one has proven that its a fake ---
**Author:** ![newinitiation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@newinitiation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newinitiation)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/457 "2013-09-26T19:29:47Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Dude! Look at #110 and the Dean Martin photo. Her hair is styled EXACTLY the same. The same strands of hair fall the same way around her face, there’s the same bright curl under her cheekbone. > > Of course Meier’s photo is blurrier. That’s bound to happen when you’re invited to photograph an alien woman. Who can be expected to get a solid focus on a stationary subject 10 feet away from you? Look at the eye brows, the nose, the lips, the shape of the face, the size of the forehead, the chin and the length of the face. I mean seriously even a blind man could see that these two ladies are totally different people ---
**Author:** ![newinitiation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@newinitiation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newinitiation)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/458 "2013-09-26T19:30:54Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > Especially with that horribly ancient 70s photo technology. The photos have turned out good enough to see that the two ladies are totally different people ---
**Author:** ![newinitiation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@newinitiation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newinitiation)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/459 "2013-09-26T19:36:56Z")
> [@DrFidelius](#): > > One of the basic concepts is science is that nature plays fair. If a person in India observes that the Moon reflects about 12% of the sunlight which falls upon it, then a different person in a different country should get the same figures if they measured in the same way. > > If one person observes that the rare porridge bird lays its eggs in mid-air, then anyone else with access to a porridge bird should be able to confirm that. If they do not see the porridge bird actually laying its eggs, they can find that eggshells consistent with porridge birds are never found in a nest. And other observations that build on the porridge bird’s natural habits. > > If only one person has ever seen a porridge bird, and we find that the genuine porridge bird feathers he has collected are dyed hen’s feathers, and his recording of the porridge bird’s call are actually tracks from Bob Crosby’s Orchestra, then we have serious doubts of the existence of the porridge bird at all. It does not matter how convincing he is in his Porridge Bird Lectures, until someone else independently confirms that they exist we do not add porridge birds to the textbooks. > > I hope you understand. You are making an illogical comparisons Everybody has something to go by in terms of Billy’s proof material The problem is people won’t look any deeper and any cursory glance at anything will not avail the truth of the matter. There is always a context to everything For example if you were just about to punch your friend as a gesture of playfulness but right at that moment a stranger walks in the room and sees you just about to punch someone and calls the police, who in this case has got their perception and interpretation of reality wrong? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/460 "2013-09-26T19:42:50Z")
> [@newinitiation](#): > > The problem is people won’t look any deeper and any cursory glance at anything will not avail the truth of the matter. Um, yes, sometimes it does. 😉 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000.md?page=22) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000.md?page=24)