# Billy Meier, whats the verdict? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 16, 2013, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000 "2013-09-16T20:03:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 26
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/501 "2013-09-27T11:12:40Z")
> [@newinitiation](#): > > Well most of us earthlings including you, me and everyone else on this forum and beyond are the ones who need to get our heads checked out first rather than attributing this to **Billy Meier who in my opinion is the most intelligent, wise, courageous, dignified, genuine, extraordinary and incredible human being who has ever lived on the face of this planet.** > No its not a personality cult thing nor do I worship anybody before you fellas jump to stupid conclusions > > I mean seriously where can you find such a genius anywhere on the face of this planet, you can’t. Again, you show that you do not understand how science works. The truth or falsity of any given fact is entirely independent of the personal virtues or failings of the person reporting the observations. A claim is verified by testing it, by attempting to reproduce the results, and not by examining the personality of the proponent. This is different than a court of law, in that phenomena do not lie while people do constantly, and it is the court’s duty to determine which of the witnesses is least likely to be lying in this instance. You, of course, are not interested in science but are trying to preach your Gospel from Space, and your analogies all relate to the legal magisterium. I am likely to not participate on this subject any longer, as street corner evangelists are boring. ---
**Author:** ![AndrewL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@AndrewL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AndrewL)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/502 "2013-09-27T13:09:42Z")
> [@CurtC](#): > > Before, I had the impression that he was just scamming in order to get some notoriety, and possibly some money. Now after seeing how laughably inept ALL of the photos are, it makes me think that he is mentally unbalanced. I mean, if I were simply looking to hoax someone with fake UFO photos, maybe I’d make it out of Christmas tree ornaments and a garbage can lid, but I would find a way to photo it other than sticking it in a small tree. And if I wanted to fake pictures of aliens, I wouldn’t just take a picture of pretty women, and I wouldn’t just take a photo of my TV screen. Actually, I think it’s rather clever on his part. You know how Nigerian bank fraud emails are always badly written, full of typos and bad grammar? That’s on purpose. It weeds out anyone who has any common sense or critical thinking whatsoever, so the fraudsters don’t waste their time with anyone who won’t fall for the scam. Only the most gullible respond to the initial email. Likewise, Billy Meier’s amateurish, crudely forged photos ensure that the only people who believe in him are those who will continue to believe in him no matter how flimsy the excuses he gives when people point out the clear evidence of fakery. He doesn’t have many followers, but those he has are fanatically loyal and incapable of ever thinking critically about the quality of the evidence he’s provided. He’s selecting up-front for those who need to believe no matter what the evidence, as we’ve seen in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Gedd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gedd/32/4938_2.png) [@Gedd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gedd)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/503 "2013-09-27T13:15:35Z")
> [@Gedd](#): > > **newinitiation** , does Bill have any physical evidence left besides photographs? The metal magically vanished of course (odd how that happens) but does he have anything else a university or scientific group could study or examine? > > > [@newinitiation](#): > > > > Yes he does > > > > The video footage > > > > The sound recording done with the help of Billy’s ex-wife > > > > The eyewitness testimony > > > > The prophecies and predictions published years or even decades before it happened all copyrighted > > > > The contact notes discussing numerous scientific facts > > > > The list goes on > > > > See this [Corroboration & Evidence | TheyFly.com](http://www.theyfly.com/corroboration-evidence) I will admit IANAL, but I don’t think eyewitness testimony, prophecies, and notes fall under the category of “physical evidence.” Actually even the video and sound recordings I think would be documentary evidence. I’ll take a second shot. Does he have anything we can give to a lab to run a test on to see if it is alien in nature, or if it has travelled beyond our solar system or if it is made of unknown materials, or . . ? ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/504 "2013-09-27T13:37:17Z")
> [@CurtC](#): > > I mean, if I were simply looking to hoax someone with fake UFO photos, maybe I’d make it out of Christmas tree ornaments and a garbage can lid, but I would find a way to photo it other than sticking it in a small tree. And if I wanted to fake pictures of aliens, I wouldn’t just take a picture of pretty women, and I wouldn’t just take a photo of my TV screen. > > Does anyone know about this Billy guy? Is he competent to take care of himself? Does he need mental help? It almost looks like he’s purposely trying to make it as obvious as he can that it’s hoax without actually admitting it. Maybe it’s an Andy Kaufman type performance piece. ---
**Author:** ![Sinaptics](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Sinaptics](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaptics)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/505 "2013-09-27T13:46:20Z")
> [@Gedd](#): > > I will admit IANAL, but I don’t think eyewitness testimony, prophecies, and notes fall under the category of “physical evidence.” Actually even the video and sound recordings I think would be documentary evidence. > > I’ll take a second shot. Does he have anything we can give to a lab to run a test on to see if it is alien in nature, or if it has travelled beyond our solar system or if it is made of unknown materials, or . . ? Maybe he could ask them to prove one the math problems that have been around forever like odd perfect numbers or the congruent number problem. That’d be pretty impressive. I’d be fairly swayed at that point. ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/506 "2013-09-27T14:09:43Z")
> [@Revtim](#): > > It almost looks like he’s purposely trying to make it as obvious as he can that it’s hoax without actually admitting it. Maybe it’s an Andy Kaufman type performance piece. Genius. Wait, I just realized that I’m reading this as ‘the aliens are the ones doing the performance art, trying to make it look like a hoax when it’s actually real.’ So they’re no more dicks than Andy Kaufman was when he faked his death. You’ve blown my mind, but the whole story is now so beautiful. > [@Sinaptics](#): > > Maybe he could ask them to prove one the math problems that have been around forever like odd perfect numbers or the congruent number problem. That’d be pretty impressive. I’d be fairly swayed at that point. I’d be totally impressed by that, and they should have this information right at hand, on their alien wikipedia page. And it would be a math problem, not some sort of prime-directive shattering, how to build a warp drive - type information. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/507 "2013-09-27T14:11:49Z")
> [@Sinaptics](#): > > Maybe he could ask them to prove one the math problems that have been around forever like odd perfect numbers or the congruent number problem. That’d be pretty impressive. I’d be fairly swayed at that point. I’d be impressed if they could just avoid getting stuck in a tree when landing. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/508 "2013-09-27T14:15:55Z")
You know how \*tiny \*they’d have to be to fit inside that trash can lid, along with all their propulsion equipment and provisions and shit? How many brain cells could they even _have_? Yes, yes, enough to invent interstellar drive, I realize. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Gedd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gedd/32/4938_2.png) [@Gedd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gedd)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/509 "2013-09-27T14:33:12Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > I’d be impressed if they could just avoid getting stuck in a tree when landing. Well, maybe there is a rational explanation. Maybe on their home planet all the docking stations happen to look like our trees do and they just keep getting confused. Kinda like when someone from the UK visits the US (or the other way around) and almost causes a head-on collision after a left hand turn. Or he didn’t have any fishing line and a really long pole. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/510 "2013-09-27T14:48:34Z")
> [@Gedd](#): > > **Well, maybe there is a rational explanation. Maybe on their home planet all the docking stations happen to look like our trees do and they just keep getting confused.** Kinda like when someone from the UK visits the US (or the other way around) and almost causes a head-on collision after a left hand turn. > > Or he didn’t have any fishing line and a really long pole. Strangely enough, I had the same thought a few days ago. I just wrote it down this moment but that proves i thought it last week. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/511 "2013-09-27T15:06:22Z")
Has anyone confirmed that **newinitiation** isn’t actually Billy Meier himself? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/512 "2013-09-27T15:12:23Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Has anyone confirmed that **newinitiation** isn’t actually Billy Meier himself? More likely he’s Michael Horn. I don’t think Billy knows much English if any at all. [From Wiki.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billy_Meier#Books_and_contact_notes) > [@](#): > > Billy Meier has authored approximately 40 books and additionally has compiled over 6,000 pages of contact notes, all of which are available in German. Although there are only very few books that have been translated into English, the Goblet of the Truth is available in English for free as a PDF. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/513 "2013-09-27T15:14:28Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > More likely he’s Michael Horn. I don’t think Billy knows much English if any at all. He has denied he is Michael Horn, but since he has not linked us to a YouTube video in support of this, I do not know why he thinks we should believe him. ---
**Author:** ![Gedd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gedd/32/4938_2.png) [@Gedd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gedd)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/514 "2013-09-27T15:35:33Z")
> [@DrFidelius](#): > > He has denied he is Michael Horn, but since he has not linked us to a YouTube video in support of this, I do not know why he thinks we should believe him. Personally I don’t know how you expect anyone on-line to believe you if you don’t have a YouTube video to back you up. Maybe he had one but the MiB took it down. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/515 "2013-09-27T16:46:31Z")
> [@Gedd](#): > > Well, maybe there is a rational explanation. Maybe on their home planet all the docking stations happen to look like our trees do and they just keep getting confused. Kinda like when someone from the UK visits the US (or the other way around) and almost causes a head-on collision after a left hand turn. > > Or he didn’t have any fishing line and a really long pole. I hate to give ammo to the believers, but the “tree-hugging” could be explained away by saying the aliens are studying Earth trees and/or the life in the trees. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/516 "2013-09-27T16:56:30Z")
> [@Revtim](#): > > I hate to give ammo to the believers, but the “tree-hugging” could be explained away by saying the aliens are studying Earth trees and/or the life in the trees. It also makes sense once you realize the “aliens” are actually angels, manifesting in space ships instead of in winged form, because that is how mid-Twentieth-century persons expected a superior being to appear. ---
**Author:** ![Truman\_Burbank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@Truman\_Burbank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truman_Burbank)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/517 "2013-09-27T17:21:57Z")
> [@newinitiation](#): > > Capricious beings!? for fuck sakes, these extraterrestrial human beings are so intelligent, wise, dignified, honorable, and righteous to the extent that **they have even considered to the finest of details what early revelation of their existence let alone their activities might do to us** earthlings at the psychological level knowing that, especially the religiously inclined which happens to be in the majority, most would simply go crazy for with the revelation comes the destruction of all religions on earth which will lead to destructive wars and conflicts. > > Now how wise are they truly and how wise and dignified is Billy who knowing this fact decides to take it upon himself to take all the flak and even 21 documented assassination attempts on his life to allow stupid contradictory elements to be included in his evidence so that people can opt out at any time > > Semi plausible deniability factor was integrated into this case for this very reason (Bolding added) Which is why they apparently went “Oh Shit! We fucked up letting Billy have that evidence, lets go steal it back!” No, wait, it’s all part of their finely crafted plan…:rolleyes: And they\* prefer \*to park in trees. ---
**Author:** ![Death\_of\_Rats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a6a055/32.png) [@Death\_of\_Rats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Death_of_Rats)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/518 "2013-09-27T20:59:12Z")
> [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](#): > > [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9eBHdFpmpHs](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9eBHdFpmpHs) > AKA Volcano has streaky thing going into it, maybe, on a couple streaky video frames. > > Verdict: Interesting. Could be a bug flying in front of the lens, could be a plane far away on a longish exposure. Could be a ufo, could be a giant rod shaped bacteria falling out of God’s nose. Could be a lot of things. Doesn’t make it a UFO yet. Technically, this would be a textbook definition of a UFO. An object that appears to be flying that is not readily identifiable. What is is not is proof that the object is of alien origin or even in anyway extraterrestial. > [@Gedd](#): > > Personally I don’t know how you expect anyone on-line to believe you if you don’t have a YouTube video to back you up. > > Maybe he had one but the MiB took it down. That would explain why Alex Trebek, Jesse Ventura, Will Smith and Tommy Lee Jones were all seen at his house wearing dark suits… ---
**Author:** ![mystic7](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecccb3/32.png) [@mystic7](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mystic7)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2013, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/519 "2013-09-28T01:08:33Z")
Doc cathod, to answer your question. I came to see the Truth of Meier gradually but also strangely suddenly. When I look back I realize I had already known the truth at age four when I received “knowledge” impulses. In late 80’s and early 90’s I kept a journal. In that journal I wrote about creation, ET’s, humans evolving to the level of advanced ET,s etc. In other words, almost like a Meier contact note. But I didn’t start studying the Meier material until 2011 and I hadn’t heard of the Billy Meier case at that time. I got curious about a news report and wondered why I had never gotten an official explanation of what they are. I started investigating things like the alien abduction phenomenon and wondered why the scientific community was silent about it. So then I decided to investgate a less disturbing aspect of the UFO phenomenon and I turned my attention to 'contactism" I soon realized Meier was the most important of all the contactees. The more I studied it the more I resonated with the “Truth” ---
**Author:** ![mystic7](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecccb3/32.png) [@mystic7](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mystic7)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2013, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/520 "2013-09-28T01:20:18Z")
Doc cathod, I failed to mention I’ve seen UFO,s in 2010\_ both day and night. I got some good photos during the day but not night. At first I thought the daytime objects were balloons, but later were deemed UFO 's by others.I’m sure the night time event was not a helicopter, or balloon. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000.md?page=25) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000.md?page=27)