# Billy Meier, whats the verdict? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 16, 2013, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000 "2013-09-16T20:03:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 28
**Author:** ![newinitiation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@newinitiation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newinitiation)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2013, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/541 "2013-09-28T05:32:56Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > Billy said he was five at first contact. Billy Meier’s career as a contactee began in 1942, when he was still only a five year old little boy. Back then, his first extraterrestrial contact person and teacher was none other than Semjase’s grandfather - a Plejaren by birth named Sfath. He was a venerable and wise man who, like every other mortal, eventually had to depart from this life. After Sfath’s death, an amiable woman known as Asket, who came from the twin universe called the DAL Universe, continued the contacts without interruption. This is a parallel universe to our DERN Universe and originated at the same time as ours. > **[The Future Of Mankind - A Billy Meier Wiki - Sfath](https://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/Sfath)** Sfath Sfath 1. Eduard, listen very closely to what I have to say to you. 1. Eduard, höre sehr genau zu, was ich dir zu sagen habe: 2. It is not for no purpose, rather for certain reasons that the series of our meetings has come about. 2. Nicht umsonst, sondern aus bestimmten Gründen haben sich die Aneinanderreihung unserer Begeg-nungen ergeben. 3. The cause for the argumentation leads back to determinations which lie very far back in the past, and according to which, during the time of your present life, you are fitted into a certain task determined by yourself - as was the case repeatedly in your spiritual line of reincarnations in former lives and in other personalities and bodies - in order to fulfil the mission of a proclaimer and to bring, to the whole of humanity, peace, true love, freedom and unity as well as open, unencrypted knowledge of the spiritual matters and that which pertains to creational laws as well as wisdom. > **[The Future Of Mankind - A Billy Meier Wiki - Sfath's Explanation](https://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/Sfath%27s_Explanation)** ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2013, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/542 "2013-09-28T05:33:39Z")
> [@newinitiation](#): > > Posting sillinesssssssssssssss!? > > I’ve provided ample links to materials people could read with their own two eyeballs to decide for themselves but NAHHHHHHHHHH they go on a groundless ad hominem attack on Billy Meier and put words in his mouth without so much as even having taken a cursory glance at the material but you as a moderator have no problems joining in the insult where most would expect people in your position to at least be impartial and neutral. > > Sure you are entitled to your opinion as a moderator or not but that isn’t the issue, the problem is that so much unsubstantiated lies about Billy Meier is being bandied about without so much as anyone except for mystic7 having done their honest research in the case not to jump on the proverbial bandwagon of deceit contributing their two cents worth You link primarily to materials that must be _purchased_ in order to read. ---
**Author:** ![newinitiation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@newinitiation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newinitiation)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2013, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/543 "2013-09-28T05:36:32Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Claiming that you cannot see the insults is not a good start. If you insist on hurling insults, you should be man enough to admit your behavior. > > First. You are calling another poster a liar, [something that is explicitly prohibited in this forum](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=448632). > > Based on the claim that the other poster is lying, you are claiming that the poster is calling himself stupid. > > Based on your posts, to date, I suspect that you will want to challenge that observation. That would be a bad idea. (And if you need to try to weasel out of your behavior, take it up in the ATMB forum, not in this thread.) > > Knock it off. > > [/Moderating] > > (And, for goodness sake, learn how to quote using the board software rather than using cutesy color changes that fail to identify the poster quoted and fail to link to the post quoted.) I don’t have to wiggle out of something that I am not guilty of so why impose your own guilt trip upon me knowing full well that my words were not meant to be an insult as I haven’t directly called anyone an idiot. You have a twisted sense of logic ---
**Author:** ![newinitiation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@newinitiation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newinitiation)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2013, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/544 "2013-09-28T05:38:08Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > You link primarily to materials that must be _purchased_ in order to read. Wrong again > **[TheyFly.com](http://theyfly.com)** > > Billy Meier : The only authentic extraterrestrial contactee > **[The Future Of Mankind - A Billy Meier Wiki](https://futureofmankind.co.uk/)** > **[FIGU](http://www.figu.org/)** > > FIGU - Die Freie Interessengemeinschaft zu den Themen Geisteslehre, Ufologie und Überbevölkerung - und Billy Eduard Albert Meier (BEAM). ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2013, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/545 "2013-09-28T05:39:53Z")
> [@newinitiation](#): > > If it gets stolen by idiots who neither had the decency nor the honour to return the metal samples to Billy who is the rightful owner, we wouldn’t be having such a discussion in the first place I thought it was given to Vogel to test. Now you claim he stole the sample? He claims it vanished. Or was it the CIA? Or MiB? Who? ---
**Author:** ![newinitiation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@newinitiation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newinitiation)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2013, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/546 "2013-09-28T05:41:53Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > That he’s a liar. > > Why did you stop using the quote function? Makes it harder to follow what and who you’re responding to. Well the quote button quotes the post I am replying to so don’t blame me if it doesn’t do what you want it it to ---
**Author:** ![newinitiation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@newinitiation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newinitiation)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2013, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/547 "2013-09-28T05:43:48Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > I thought it was given to Vogel to test. Now you claim he stole the sample? He claims it vanished. Or was it the CIA? Or MiB? Who? Get it from the horses mouth by reading what they’ve said in the numerous links that I have provided instead of asking such a silly question which tells more about what you haven’t done as oppose to what you have. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2013, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/548 "2013-09-28T05:44:04Z")
> [@newinitiation](#): > > I don’t have to wiggle out of something that I am not guilty of so why impose your own guilt trip upon me knowing full well that my words were not meant to be an insult as I haven’t directly called anyone an idiot. > > You have a twisted sense of logic I told you to take this sort of claim to ATMB. You did insult another poster and you were simply told to stop rather than receiving an official Warning. If you do not like that, you are welcome to take it up in a separate thread in ATMB, but it is not permitted to hijack a thread to argue infractions. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2013, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/549 "2013-09-28T05:49:01Z")
> [@newinitiation](#): > > Posting sillinesssssssssssssss!? Yes. Silliness. I have not claimed that everything you have posted was silly. I noted that some of it was and provided and example: relying on a person with no training in metallurgy to identify the composition of a metallic object is silly. (And you can drop the odd comments about me being a Moderator. My actions as a Mod are limited to telling you not to insult other posters and do not carry over to topic discussions.) ---
**Author:** ![newinitiation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@newinitiation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newinitiation)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2013, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/550 "2013-09-28T05:52:42Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > I told you to take this sort of claim to ATMB. You did insult another poster and you were simply told to stop rather than receiving an official Warning. If you do not like that, you are welcome to take it up in a separate thread in ATMB, but it is not permitted to hijack a thread to argue infractions. > > [/Moderating] You are the one who brought it up in the first place and not me I am not interested wasting time making a claim with the ATMB and whats the point anyway. All I can vouch for is that I haven’t directly called anyone here an idiot and if people disagree they can quote my words line by line on where I said explicitly that such and such is an idiot. No no point beating a dead horse on this issue and people should just move on just as I have done. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2013, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/551 "2013-09-28T05:54:00Z")
> [@newinitiation](#): > > Get it from the horses mouth by reading what they’ve said in the numerous links that I have provided instead of asking such a silly question which tells more about what you haven’t done as oppose to what you have. Vogel had the metal to test. When did it disappear? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2013, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/552 "2013-09-28T05:56:25Z")
> [@newinitiation](#): > > You are the one who brought it up in the first place and not me > > I am not interested wasting time making a claim with the ATMB and whats the point anyway. > > All I can vouch for is that I haven’t directly called anyone here an idiot and if people disagree they can quote my words line by line on where I said explicitly that such and such is an idiot. > > No no point beating a dead horse on this issue and people should just move on just as I have done. Stop this hijack. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![newinitiation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@newinitiation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newinitiation)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2013, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/553 "2013-09-28T06:02:01Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Yes. Silliness. I have not claimed that everything you have posted was silly. I noted that some of it was and provided and example: relying on a person with no training in metallurgy to identify the composition of a metallic object is silly. > > (And you can drop the odd comments about me being a Moderator. My actions as a Mod are limited to telling you not to insult other posters and do not carry over to topic discussions.) As I have provided this link on numerous occasions if people are at least honest enough to see what the other party DID state then we would have far less misunderstanding and wasted hours going nowhere. This is the statement written in this article. > **[Documentation%20from%20IBM%20on.pdf](https://theyfly.com/PDF/Documentation%20from%20IBM%20on.pdf)** > > 60.08 KB The following documentation is provided to answer the critics who have viciously slandered Marcel Vogel in an attempt to discredit him and, thereby, his analysis of the metal alloy samples, allegedly given to Meier by the Plejaren. Vogel was firm in stating that the metal alloys were not reproducible by him, nor were they the product of any technology known to him at the time. Marcel Vogel: Research chemist for IBM for twenty-two years, held thirty- two patents, and invented the magnetic disk coating memory system still used in IBM disk memories. A specialist in the conversion of energy inside crystals, Vogel probed crystalline structures with the most complete optical microscopic equipment available in the world - a system of scanning electron microscopes costing $250,000. Lieut. Col. Wendelle Stevens, USAF (Ret.): One of the original investigators in the Meier case. In 1979, he sent Vogel crystals and metal samples Meier had received from the Plejarens. Vogel reported, ”When I touched the oxide with a stainless steel probe, red streaks appeared and the oxide coating disappeared. I just touched the metal like that, and it started to deoxidize and become a pure metal. I have never seen a phenomenon like that before. ---
**Author:** ![newinitiation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@newinitiation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newinitiation)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2013, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/554 "2013-09-28T06:04:14Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > Vogel had the metal to test. When did it disappear? The answer is in this article > **[Documentation%20from%20IBM%20on.pdf](https://theyfly.com/PDF/Documentation%20from%20IBM%20on.pdf)** > > 60.08 KB ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2013, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/555 "2013-09-28T06:12:16Z")
> [@newinitiation](#): > > The answer is in this article > > [http://theyfly.com/PDF/Documentation%20from%20IBM%20on.pdf](http://theyfly.com/PDF/Documentation%20from%20IBM%20on.pdf) No mention of the sample disappearing. Also no record of the output of the test equipment. Shouldn’t there be graphs, photos, that sort of thing? ---
**Author:** ![Consensus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3be4f8/32.png) [@Consensus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Consensus)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2013, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/556 "2013-09-28T06:24:15Z")
So what’s the point? What’s the motivation? So the evidence in the Meier case has you **newinitiation** convinced the aliens are real. Lots of people believe incredible things based on whatever they are willing to accept as being true. It’s all about the perception of the individual. What are you hoping to gain from this thread? I’ve seen you get more frustrated and abusive over the course of this thread and what ever your good intentions might be, it’s not helping. Why so much focus on the evidence of their presence and so little attention to their message? Did they come all the way over here just to give Billy the alien “dog and pony” show? And more surprisingly, did they think it would cause us to radically change the views we hold and the things we do? I watched the video Contact with W. Stevens and others, and the most interesting thing I took from it is that apparently they want nothing from us. Absolutely nothing. They just want us to be happy. Are you happy? ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2013, 7:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/557 "2013-09-28T07:11:03Z")
Well, newinitiation, it’s be a slice. Up till the part when your punctuation and capitalization totally fled, you were mildly amusing. I’ll remember you and your drunken alien pilots driving fancy trashcan lids in the trees for a long time. I may use the websites you’ve directed us to in order to teach my children about pseudo-science, so thanks. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2013, 10:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/558 "2013-09-28T10:46:43Z")
> [@newinitiation](#): > > As I have provided this link on numerous occasions if people are at least honest enough to see what the other party DID state then we would have far less misunderstanding and wasted hours going nowhere. I had already read that information. Note the utter lack of the word “metallurgist” or “metallurgy” in his _curriculum vitae_? He was simply not trained to examine metals. Looking to him is like looking at all the “experts” who insist that the World Trade Center had to have been brought down by planted explosives when none of them are trained in structural design or structural failure analysis. They are out of their fields and their opinions are not worth much. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2013, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/559 "2013-09-28T12:44:31Z")
While it is difficult to take seriously revelations from anyone named “Billy”, I find the name Guido Moosbruggers to be incredibly authoritative. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![newinitiation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@newinitiation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newinitiation)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2013, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/560 "2013-09-28T15:44:23Z")
> [@Consensus](#): > > So what’s the point? What’s the motivation? So the evidence in the Meier case has you **newinitiation** convinced the aliens are real. Lots of people believe incredible things based on whatever they are willing to accept as being true. It’s all about the perception of the individual. > > What are you hoping to gain from this thread? I’ve seen you get more frustrated and abusive over the course of this thread and what ever your good intentions might be, it’s not helping. > > Why so much focus on the evidence of their presence and so little attention to their message? Did they come all the way over here just to give Billy the alien “dog and pony” show? And more surprisingly, did they think it would cause us to radically change the views we hold and the things we do? I watched the video Contact with W. Stevens and others, and the most interesting thing I took from it is that apparently they want nothing from us. Absolutely nothing. They just want us to be happy. Are you happy? Frustrated and abusive? Geezz I’ve thrown in a few profanities, which by the way, most people living in the industrialized world would normally hear and use themselves in their everyday life and I am accused of being abusive!? George Carlin said it best when he said to the effect that with the use of such a language, the context in which it is said is important as words are neutral in itself. To answer your question which by the way is the most intelligent of all questions I have received on this thread so far, the point of it all is that even if I know what the proverbial response by the majority of people here and elsewhere is going to be, nevertheless Billy’s name would be out there for those who will by chance bump into his information from such a forum as this in the future. Even if 1 person out of every 10,000 had the opportune moment to truly reflect upon Billy’s information by honestly assessing his case with dignity and grace with the impetus produced from having bumped into his material here amist the negativity it would have served its purpose. Time will tell of course and usually time does tell in the end I am confident that by the year 2029 majority of people around the world will see the truthfulness of Billy Meier’s case and will deem it to be unequivocally true. In respect to the Plejaren and Billy’s message, those who are ready to handle the truth will eventually bump into it and I have already provided the links to his teachings anyway but seeing as nobody is bothered to read it, I guess their minds are still not ready to handle the profound truth. The Plejaren are not here to force anything on us and neither does Billy, in the ned everyone has to think for themselves and be responsible for their own thoughts, feelings and actions. The onus is left to us to decide for ourselves and we must do so by exercising our own free volition and will. The spiritual teachings and the principle of the teachings will only be understood and appreciated it by those that actually end up getting to it through their own volition and effort and nobody can do it for anybody but each and every individual by themselves alone. Most are very dishonest with themselves and deceive themselves through rational lies (rationalize). All they are interested in is to ridicule the case without even knowing the reasons why except for the fact that they have read somewhere in the numerous anti Meier websites that does this in perpetuity. I am happy in the fact that for whatever its worth I am doing my part but of its consequences none can actually gauge the worth of except to say that if the truth is opposed so fiercely here in this forum as well, I must be doing my part somehow. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000.md?page=27) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000.md?page=29)