# Billy Meier, whats the verdict? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 16, 2013, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000 "2013-09-16T20:03:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 30
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2013, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/581 "2013-09-29T00:32:22Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Hmm. > > I just noticed that you are linking to the ae911 site, as well. > > That would explain your credulous acceptance of stuff that is just wrong, I guess. Hey look! If you cannot handle [this super high level of scientific demonstration](http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/thum_9777486fa44971ae0.jpg) then obviously you can’t handle the faxts about alien ships looking like X-mas tree ornaments and the aliens looking like 70’s TV dancers. ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2013, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/582 "2013-09-29T03:26:03Z")
> [@newinitiation](#): > > He commented: “. . . I cannot explain the metal sample. By any known combination of material I could not put it together myself, as a scientist. With any technology that I know of, we could not achieve this on this planet . . .” I love that phrase, “as a scientist”. As a scientist myself, I find that it makes me think of some cheesy B movie. Actually, all this Meier stuff reminds me of a crappy B movie. I wish Tom Servo and Crow were here. > [@newinitiation](#): > > Frustrated and abusive? And mean. > [@newinitiation](#): > > Geezzz are you telling me that you have never made punctuation and grammatical mistakes in your life let alone here on this forum. > > Choose > > The pot or the kettle I’ve made punctuation and grammatical mistakes. I try not to do it throughout my entire screed, while frothing at the mouth and attempting to press my opinion/guru’s opinion/religion/cult leader’s ideas/pyramid scheme on others while ignoring what they have to say. > [@runner pat](#): > > Why has the topic changed to 9/11? The goalposts have moved to New York. A QUESTION for the Meier believers: Do you guys know each other in real life? Do you, **newinitiation** , know **mystic7** or **TheBodhi** in the non-online world? Seems like a lot of you slithered out of the woodwork at the same time. SECOND QUESTION: Do y’all make any money off this stuff? ETA: Damn, the Gack thread is closed. Try not to get banned, Meier-ites. ---
**Author:** ![newinitiation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@newinitiation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newinitiation)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2013, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/583 "2013-09-29T07:06:54Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > Bullshit. No one has time to read an entire book looking for a specific point. Use the index damn it! ---
**Author:** ![newinitiation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@newinitiation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newinitiation)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2013, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/584 "2013-09-29T07:27:36Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > I don’t. The difference is my truth is grounded in the real world. > > Why has the topic changed to 9/11? Ask your friend Tomndebb ---
**Author:** ![newinitiation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@newinitiation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newinitiation)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2013, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/585 "2013-09-29T07:29:02Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > That’s one possibility. > > Another is that most people instantly see that Meier is batshit crazy, and those that follow him are too ingrained and conditioned by their beliefs and deceived thought situation (whatever that means). > > I’ll put it on my calendar. > I’ll put that on my calendar, too. > > So there’s no proof now, but there will be in 10-16 years? If it doesn’t happen, will you retract your claims? There will be nothing to retract for surely this will come to pass just as every other predictions that Billy has made over a number of decades ---
**Author:** ![newinitiation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@newinitiation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newinitiation)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2013, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/586 "2013-09-29T07:36:37Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > Why not? Is science decided by voting on the most popular postulate? > Truth? TRUTH? \* You can’t handle the truth!\* Hey this is your projection and not these experts in various fields Because it isn’t popular it is vehemently denied even more. The towers came down due to a controlled demolition and there is abundant evidence presented that thermate was used along with planted bombs Have you seen loose change Billy’s metal samples, sound recordings, photos and video footage have all been scrutinized with the scientific method of the day and it has passed with flying colors. ---
**Author:** ![newinitiation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@newinitiation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newinitiation)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2013, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/587 "2013-09-29T07:42:55Z")
> [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > Why is it always ten years down the road? “UFO’s will be conclusively shown to be real in 10 years, just you wait you debunker you!” (heard that one in 1995). “Scientology is expanding like wildfire and will be the biggest religion in the USA in 10 years.” (late 90’s) “Within 10 years we’ll see an explosion in the number of people who know the trvth about demolition being used on 9/11” (heard in 2006…OK they’ve got a few years yet but kinda going backwards.). “In 10 years the only skeptics will be tired, old men and well see a magnificent increase in the world’s use of true psychic powers!” (said several times, last heard in 2001). > > Bah! Aside from the other examples except for the 911 which I can’t speak for, in terms of Billy’s contact case, the level of consciousness development required to understand the authenticity and the genuineness of it requires an appreciable amount of time but also certain advances of the mind. Most can’t handle the truth otherwise they would have already come to the conclusion that Billy Meier was telling the truth all along. Its not for everyone and I am afraid to say that most minds are yet to advance beyond the Copernicus era therefore the limit is set not by the sophistication of the Billy Meier case but by limited minds and that’s the truth. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2013, 7:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/588 "2013-09-29T07:45:43Z")
> [@newinitiation](#): > > There will be nothing to retract for surely this will come to pass just as every other predictions that Billy has made over a number of decades I feel safe. List the predictions and their first publication date in an **independent** journal, book or magazine. Cite publication, date, page and quote the prediction as published. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2013, 7:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/589 "2013-09-29T07:54:41Z")
> [@newinitiation](#): > > Billy’s metal samples, sound recordings, photos and video footage have all been scrutinized with the scientific method of the day and it has passed with flying colors. Did the colors also get stuck in the trees? There are plenty of examinations of his evidence that say he’s a liar and a fraud. ---
**Author:** ![newinitiation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@newinitiation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newinitiation)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2013, 7:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/590 "2013-09-29T07:58:33Z")
Truth hurts, (although I have never seen it make blood boil, before.) Yeah it does that’s why you people oppose the Billy Meier case so arduously or rather to the point of fanaticism. Again: he is not a metallurgist. He could well be the most brilliant expert on crystals in the entire world. That does not mean he knows squat about metallurgy. And how do you know and account for his inquiry to his friend who is a metallurgist who said to the effect that he has no way of duplicating it with the current technology known at that time. We see the same sort of silliness in every CT threaad on the WTC/Pentagon attacks. Someone finds some long list of "experts" who claim that the towers could not have been brought down by enormous, fuel-laden aircraft crashing into them at hundreds of miles per hour. Then we look at the list of "experts" and we find physicists, chemists, mathematicians, mechanical engineers, and a host of smart people who are simply not trained to investigate or speculate intelligently on what it takes to make a skyscraper built in the fashion of the WTC towers fall down. Not trained!? Hell there is even a demolition expert among them so what magical qualification are you after? It is all very well that he had access to a powerful microscope, but there is no evidence that he had the training to see what was necessary to discover the composition of the object. Lots of the CT “experts” on the WTC can wave around truly impressive appearing mathematical formulae to “prove” their pet theories, but they still lack the training to know what it is they are figuring and they are still wrong. Once again what are you specifically after when you state with such authority in your use of the word ‘training’ Getting upset that other people recognize the inadequacies of your arguments is not very productive, but I am not your physician, so I suppose you can take your Lisinopril and watch your own blood pressure. No you are wrong, I am not upset because people disagree with me or point out what to them appears contradictory, my peeve is in the fact that people consciously lies about the case not to mention having done nothing in the way of an honest investigation of the case and yet state with such grandiosity that Billy is lying. Yep. With not a word abut a single hour of training as a metallurgist. A person of Macel Vogel’s pedigree and scientific expertise does not have to be a metallurgist to know the chemical composition of the metal sample which he has analyzed with sophisticated equipment This is what he said “X-ray diffraction and spectral analysis revealed both Thulium and Rhenium. “Thulium exists only in minute amounts. It is exceedingly expensive, far beyond platinum, and rare to come by. Someone would have to have an extensive metallurgical knowledge even to be aware of a composition of this type”, said Vogel. At 1600 X Vogel said, “A whole new world appears in the specimen. There are structures within structures - very unusual.” At 2500 X he found that the sample was, “metal, but at the same time … it is crystal!” ---
**Author:** ![newinitiation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@newinitiation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newinitiation)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2013, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/591 "2013-09-29T08:05:40Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > 1995? Shit, I heard that one in the 1950’s. From J. Allen Hynek and a dozen others, most with books to sell. The deadline keeps getting pushed back. Wonder why that is? > > Bah, indeed. Whatever claims made by these people it is their claim and not Billy’s, so why mix the two ---
**Author:** ![newinitiation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@newinitiation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newinitiation)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2013, 8:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/592 "2013-09-29T08:13:28Z")
I love that phrase, “as a scientist”. As a scientist myself, I find that it makes me think of some cheesy B movie. What is your expertise to conclude this about Marcel Vogel Its kinda unprofessional wouldn’t you say for another self proclaimed scientist to be bagging the shit out of another who so happens to have made enormous contribution to the world. What have you achieved!? Actually, all this Meier stuff reminds me of a crappy B movie. I wish Tom Servo and Crow were here. This is just you belief and very unscientific at that I might add And mean. I’ve made punctuation and grammatical mistakes. I try not to do it throughout my entire screed, while frothing at the mouth and attempting to press my opinion/guru’s opinion/religion/cult leader’s ideas/pyramid scheme on others while ignoring what they have to say. Nothing of the sort Why not apply your scientific mind instead of your emotional one to properly assess the Billy Meier case. The goalposts have moved to New York. A QUESTION for the Meier believers: Do you guys know each other in real life? Do you, **newinitiation** , know **mystic7** or **TheBodhi** in the non-online world? Seems like a lot of you slithered out of the woodwork at the same time. No we have no vested interest nor one of financial in nature. Do you seriously think that anyone can make a buck out of selling the Billy Meier case to anyone when you could amply witness for yourself how vehemently opposed most are to the case. Geezzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz SECOND QUESTION: Do y’all make any money off this stuff? ETA: Damn, the Gack thread is closed. Try not to get banned, Meier-ites. [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![newinitiation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@newinitiation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newinitiation)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2013, 8:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/593 "2013-09-29T08:25:28Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > I feel safe. > > List the predictions and their first publication date in an **independent** journal, book or magazine. > Cite publication, date, page and quote the prediction as published. Wendelle Stevens’ Possession of Jupiter-Io Documentation by March 9, 1979 > **[TheyFly.com - The Billy Meier UFO Contacts -Wendelle Stevens' Possession of...](http://theyfly.com/Wendelle-Stevens-Jupiter-Io.html)** A True Prophet Revealed Verifiable Documentation …Und Sie Fliegen Doch! Ufos: Die Die Grobte Herausforderund Des 20. Jahrhunderts by Guido Moosbrugger Binding: Hardcover Publisher: Michael Hesemann Date published: 1991 ISBN-13: 9783925248184 ISBN:3925248188 > **[TheyFly.com - The Billy Meier UFO Contacts - A\_True\_Prophet\_Revealed](http://theyfly.com/A_True_Prophet_Revealed.html)** Danger of Collision with the Red Meteor! > **[TheyFly.com - The Billy Meier UFO Contacts - The Red Meteor - Apophis](http://theyfly.com/Red_Meteor.html)** BREAKING NEWS: Meier Right. Again! [http://www.theyfly.com/breaking-news-meier-right-again-1](http://www.theyfly.com/breaking-news-meier-right-again-1) Proof Beyond A Reasonable Doubt > **[The Future Of Mankind - A Billy Meier Wiki - Proof Beyond A Reasonable Doubt](https://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/Proof_Beyond_A_Reasonable_Doubt)** ``` Contact Reports volume: 3 (Plejadisch-plejarische Kontakberichte, Gespräche, Block 3) Page number(s): 215 - 295 Date/time of contact: Thursday, October 19, 1978, 6:04 PM Translator(s): Benjamin Stevens Date of original translation: December 21, 2010 Corrections and improvements made: N/A Contact person: Semjase, Quetzal, and Ptaah ``` Semjase: Semjase: 35. So then listen carefully: 36. As the first sign of the advanced fulfillment of the determined turning point, a sect massacre will take place, for which many political personalities will bear great guilt. 37. Through murder and forced mass suicide, some 200 children and about 1,023 adult human beings will meet death, but out of all these, only a number of approximately 1,000 will yet be discovered. 38. This tragedy will occur in Jonestown, a settlement site in Guyana, named after the megalomaniacal and consciousness-impaired sect leader Jim Jones, who, with a large part of his fanatical followers influenced under hypnosis, has immigrated to Guyana and created a settlement site there, where he holds his believers like slaves. 39. Through recommendation letters of many political personalities of America, he has succeeded in the immigration with his followers into Guyana, where he leads a barbaric regiment. 40. By the time after the middle of November, it will have come so far that he evokes a massacre through compulsion, hypnosis, and fanaticism, to which well over one thousand human beings will fall victim. 41. Very many will voluntarily take a poison offered to them and will also kill their children with this, while others will be forced to do so and the remainder will fall by bullets of murderous hands. 42. The extremely degenerate sect, called “Peoples Temple” or “Peoples Church Union,” is very active politically and is supported by American politicians who bear very great guilt for the fact that it can come to this horrible massacre, as these were the ones who paved and opened all ways for the insane Jim Jones’ doings. ---
**Author:** ![newinitiation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@newinitiation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newinitiation)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2013, 8:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/594 "2013-09-29T08:26:43Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > Did the colors also get stuck in the trees? > > There are plenty of examinations of his evidence that say he’s a liar and a fraud. You are making the claim of fraud then prove it! ---
**Author:** ![newinitiation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@newinitiation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newinitiation)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2013, 8:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/595 "2013-09-29T08:29:39Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > Vogel had the metal to test. When did it disappear? Its not important when it disappeared but rather whether it was tested in the first place and it has ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2013, 8:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/596 "2013-09-29T08:45:44Z")
> [@newinitiation](#): > > You are making the claim of fraud then prove it! Easy, look at the obviously phony pictures. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2013, 9:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/597 "2013-09-29T09:10:41Z")
> [@newinitiation](#): > > Wendelle Stevens’ Possession of Jupiter-Io Documentation by March 9, 1979 > [TheyFly.com - The Billy Meier UFO Contacts -Wendelle Stevens' Possession of Jupiter-Io Documentation](http://theyfly.com/Wendelle-Stevens-Jupiter-Io.html) > > A True Prophet Revealed > Verifiable Documentation > …Und Sie Fliegen Doch! Ufos: Die Die Grobte Herausforderund Des 20. Jahrhunderts > > by Guido Moosbrugger > > Binding: Hardcover > > Publisher: Michael Hesemann > > Date published: 1991 > > ISBN-13: 9783925248184 ISBN:3925248188 > > [TheyFly.com - The Billy Meier UFO Contacts - A\_True\_Prophet\_Revealed](http://theyfly.com/A_True_Prophet_Revealed.html) > > Danger of Collision with the Red Meteor! > > [TheyFly.com - The Billy Meier UFO Contacts - The Red Meteor - Apophis](http://theyfly.com/Red_Meteor.html) > BREAKING NEWS: Meier Right. Again! > > [http://www.theyfly.com/breaking-news-meier-right-again-1](http://www.theyfly.com/breaking-news-meier-right-again-1) > > Proof Beyond A Reasonable Doubt > > [The Future Of Mankind - A Billy Meier Wiki - Proof Beyond A Reasonable Doubt](http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/Proof_Beyond_A_Reasonable_Doubt) > > ``` > Contact Reports volume: 3 (Plejadisch-plejarische Kontakberichte, Gespräche, Block 3) > Page number(s): 215 - 295 > Date/time of contact: Thursday, October 19, 1978, 6:04 PM > Translator(s): Benjamin Stevens > Date of original translation: December 21, 2010 > Corrections and improvements made: N/A > Contact person: Semjase, Quetzal, and Ptaah > > ``` > > Semjase: Semjase: > 35. So then listen carefully: > 36. As the first sign of the advanced fulfillment of the determined turning point, a sect massacre will take place, for which many political personalities will bear great guilt. > 37. Through murder and forced mass suicide, some 200 children and about 1,023 adult human beings will meet death, but out of all these, only a number of approximately 1,000 will yet be discovered. > 38. This tragedy will occur in Jonestown, a settlement site in Guyana, named after the megalomaniacal and consciousness-impaired sect leader Jim Jones, who, with a large part of his fanatical followers influenced under hypnosis, has immigrated to Guyana and created a settlement site there, where he holds his believers like slaves. > 39. Through recommendation letters of many political personalities of America, he has succeeded in the immigration with his followers into Guyana, where he leads a barbaric regiment. > 40. By the time after the middle of November, it will have come so far that he evokes a massacre through compulsion, hypnosis, and fanaticism, to which well over one thousand human beings will fall victim. > 41. Very many will voluntarily take a poison offered to them and will also kill their children with this, while others will be forced to do so and the remainder will fall by bullets of murderous hands. > 42. The extremely degenerate sect, called “Peoples Temple” or “Peoples Church Union,” is very active politically and is supported by American politicians who bear very great guilt for the fact that it can come to this horrible massacre, as these were the ones who paved and opened all ways for the insane Jim Jones’ doings. Real tough predicting earthquakes and volcanoes. Jonestown prediction translated in 1990 and how convenient that it’s not on the FIGU site. That Red Meteor gives no specifics. Pretty easy to predict a meteor might come near, it’s been done for decades. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2013, 9:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/598 "2013-09-29T09:14:06Z")
[Timeline for the Red Meteor.](http://podcast.sjrdesign.net/shownotes_049.php) > [@](#): > > Okay, so remember the timeline here: 1981 was the first mention, 2002 no new information, 2004 Apophis is found and its orbit calculated and all this other stuff, and then, FOUR YEARS LATER, Meier very directly links his red meteor with the astronomical data of Apophis, though we don’t have it by name. > > There was nothing connecting the two before, and Apophis isn’t exactly red, but now he’s put the red meteor together with the dates of Apophis. Note also what was stated about the Red Meteor. > [@](#): > > In #150, Meier wrote that he stated to the Plejaran “Quetzal:” “I am particularly interested in the ‘red meteor.’ Now, is this the Destroyer, or is this another comet that passes again and again through our solar system?” > > “Quetzal” responded: “Neither, my friend. The meteor mentioned in the prophecies, which will exhibit an enormous size and cause very vicious, destructive havoc on Earth, and which threatens to bring climatic and also tectonic and other changes, will also threaten to split the Earth’s crust, from today’s North Sea to the Black Sea, but this doesn’t have to be true with certainty because now, certain factors speak otherwise.” I don’t remember any of that, do you? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2013, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/599 "2013-09-29T12:08:51Z")
> [@newinitiation](#): > > No you are wrong, I am not upset because people disagree with me or point out what to them appears contradictory, my peeve is in the fact that people consciously lies about the case not to mention having done nothing in the way of an honest investigation of the case and yet state with such grandiosity that Billy is lying. > > > [@tomndebb](#): > > > > Yep. With not a word about a single hour of training as a metallurgist. > [@newinitiation](#): > > A person of Macel Vogel’s pedigree and scientific expertise does not have to be a metallurgist to know the chemical composition of the metal sample which he has analyzed with sophisticated equipment That is nothing but an unsupportable assertion that is not grounded in reality. Every scientific discipline has its own metrics. Claiming that being brilliant excuses one from the need to actually understand the the technology and science is dumb. Linus Pauling was a brilliant chemist, but when he proclaimed that massive doses of Vitamin C, taken orally, would prevent and cure cancer, he was just wrong. Medicine was outside his field of expertise and he made some basic mistakes in his analysis of the subject. Without training in metallurgy, Vogel’s opinion must be supported by the analysis of a genuine metallurgist or he is simply one more amateur spouting nonsense. > [@newinitiation](#): > > And how do you know and account for his inquiry to his friend who is a metallurgist who said to the effect that he has no way of duplicating it with the current technology known at that time. Until I see the actual testimony of the “metallurgist,” rather than an offhand comment by Vogel of what someone said without knowing what they actually saw or examined, I don’t account for anything. Vogel did not even claim that the metallurgist identified the material as thulium, his simply said that he did not know how to create a structure in that manner. If Vogel simply showed him graphs of mixed aluminum and silver and asked him how we would combine silver and thulium, for example, he might have given a legitimate answer to the question while missing the point. Since the metallurgist does not appear explaining his own examinations, we can only guess at what might have actually happened. I have not lied about or distorted anything. You have made some absolute claims and I have pointed out how they are subject to challenge, at which point you began frothing at the mouth. Next time, bring evidence. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2013, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/600 "2013-09-29T12:12:41Z")
> [@newinitiation](#): > > > [@runner pat](#): > > > > Why has the topic changed to 9/11? > > Ask your friend Tomndebb Sorry. I just used the silliness of the CT enthusiasts as an example of people outside their areas of expertise getting things horribly wrong. I suppose I should have realized that you would have been one of them, as well. Hey! Maybe Billy’s aliens destroyed the WTC towers! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000.md?page=29) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000.md?page=31)