# Billy Meier, whats the verdict? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 16, 2013, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000 "2013-09-16T20:03:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 35
**Author:** ![newinitiation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@newinitiation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newinitiation)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/681 "2013-09-30T18:45:02Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > Is it really that hard to take pictures with one arm? Give it a try yourself ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/682 "2013-09-30T18:45:57Z")
> [@newinitiation](#): > > Its not an assumption but fact You used Meier’s workload to explain his rather careless attitude toward physical evidence. If that workload is mostly fiction, how might one explain Meier’s issues with physical evidence? [QUOTE=newinitiation] Even wendelle Stevens had the occasion of witnessing for himself an assassination attempt in person when a bullet just missed Billy’s head by a whisker [/quote] UFOlogist Wendelle Stevens? Not a credible source. [QUOTE=newinitiation] Well he hasn’t done it because it wasn’t a hoax to begin with and no need for him to convince anyone of anything. [/quote] You need to stop saying that Meier couldn’t have pulled off a hoax, then, as that means something entirely different from saying that the case isn’t a hoax. [QUOTE=newinitiation] Well the skeptics conveniently quote her lies when it suit them Gee the double standard things kinds gets boring after awhile don’t you think [/quote] So, does she count as someone who’s come forward about the alleged hoax, or not? You said no one had. [QUOTE=newinitiation] For the sake of the argument that it was a hoax and that all his writings and books were the work of fiction, I mean seriously if you ever read any of his materials, you have to ask yourself how a one armed swiss farmer with a 6th grade education could come up with such a story line dealing with diverse subjects beyond his education especially considering that there were no wide spread personal computers, the internet, TV shows dealing with these broad subjects he could rip off nor having access to scientific information which was mostly published in the US. Did you think about that!? [/QUOTE] Meet [Henry Darger.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Darger) Lack of education doesn’t equate to lack of imagination. Further, you’ve not presented any sort of case that Meier was possessed of scientific knowledge beyond what he could have read. Why not cite your best example of Meier’s alleged scientific acumen? ---
**Author:** ![newinitiation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@newinitiation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newinitiation)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/683 "2013-09-30T18:48:54Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > No, it doesn’t. Here’s the [trash can](http://www.petandgarden.com.au/220-litre-blue-drum-used-ex-food-container.html) Starting from the top, both that lid and the WCUFO you linked to have 3 lines then a wide brim, oh AND the little plastic thing sticking out the side. [![](https://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/w/images/5/50/Lid.jpg) ](https://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/w/images/5/50/Lid.jpg) zoom in and you’ll notice that this lid is from Billy’s place of residence and not the one that you have provided ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/684 "2013-09-30T18:50:22Z")
> [@newinitiation](#): > > [http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/w/images/5/50/Lid.jpg](http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/w/images/5/50/Lid.jpg) > > zoom in and you’ll notice that this lid is from Billy’s place of residence and not the one that you have provided So he did make the model himself. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/685 "2013-09-30T18:51:17Z")
> [@newinitiation](#): > > Then all reason and common sense has left you and all you are interested in doing is trolling rather than honestly seeking answers to real questions So…no answer to the contradiction then? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/686 "2013-09-30T18:53:14Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > Is it really that hard to take pictures with one arm? You can see for yourself how bad the focus is. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/687 "2013-09-30T18:53:41Z")
> [@newinitiation](#): > > There are more people seeing the truth of his case than what you are leading yourself to believe Krusty is coming, Krusty is coming. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/688 "2013-09-30T18:55:49Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > You can see for yourself how bad the focus is. 😉 But **newinitiation** claimed that was the shitty 70s technology. I guess focusing wasn’t invented until later. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/689 "2013-09-30T18:56:05Z")
> [@newinitiation](#): > > Then all reason and common sense has left you and all you are interested in doing is trolling rather than honestly seeking answers to real questions > [@newinitiation](#): > > Childish at best **newinitition** , you’re not allowed to insult other posters or accuse them of trolling. This is an official warning. If you keep this up you’re not going to be posting here much longer. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/690 "2013-09-30T18:57:39Z")
> [@newinitiation](#): > > Having just an arm rather than a pair certainly does present obstacles to pulling off the supposed fake evidence inputed to Billy by the skeptics given that not only does he have to invent the thing if indeed he has but he must also manipulate the supposed strings whilst taking the photos and video recording all at the same time and this with only one arm and nobdy to help him along. > > Sounds a little too far fetched don’t you think? People with only one usable hand do get used to doing things differently - often as in doing things in series instead of parallel. For instance, putting the trash can lid in the tree first, \*then \*setting the camera on a rock or tree stump, \*then \*pushing the shutter release. Or he could have had a similarly-drunken friend with a sense of humor help him out, like the guy who made the Bigfoot costume for the famous video did. It would be a shame if Meier spent all that time drinking _alone_, wouldn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/691 "2013-09-30T19:01:06Z")
> [@newinitiation](#): > > [http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/w/images/5/50/Lid.jpg](http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/w/images/5/50/Lid.jpg) > > zoom in and you’ll notice that this lid is from Billy’s place of residence and not the one that you have provided Are you, yet again, trying to force me to look at a single piece of evidence that you feel supports your claim, and ignore other evidence entirely? I linked to a picture of a food container that looks egg-fucking-zactly like the base of Meier’s “alien spacecraft”, and your answer is that the drum I linked to is slightly different than a drum found on Meier’s property. Perhaps Meier does, in fact, have some drums with lids that have another stripe on it. That doesn’t prove that he didn’t make a model, it only proves that he didn’t use those lids to make the model. And… that picture sucks, you can’t zoom in for shit. ---
**Author:** ![newinitiation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@newinitiation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newinitiation)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/692 "2013-09-30T19:02:55Z")
You used Meier’s workload to explain his rather careless attitude toward physical evidence. If that workload is mostly fiction, how might one explain Meier’s issues with physical evidence? Look if the issue you are referring to is his asket and nera photo he has overlooked due to his health then he has explain it this way. [http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy\_Meier/Asket\_and\_Nera\_Photos](http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/Asket_and_Nera_Photos) UFOlogist Wendelle Stevens? Not a credible source. Why not? You need to stop saying that Meier couldn’t have pulled off a hoax, then, as that means something entirely different from saying that the case isn’t a hoax. No it just means that had it been a hoax how could a one armed swiss farmer with meager financial means back in the 70’s out in the middle of nowhere in the swiss alps managed to write over 40 books, over 25,000 pages of information, take over 1000 crisp photos and numerous video footage whilst working to earn a living and raise his children all at the same time amonst so many other things that he has done and all this by himself without accomplices. So, does she count as someone who’s come forward about the alleged hoax, or not? You said no one had. For the sake of argument if this case was a hoax, she was never involved in assisting Billy as an accomplice and so I am right in that no one has accompanied Billy to assist him with taking the photos and video footage, leading one to the only inevitable conclusion that its because he has taken take photos of real ET space craft. Meet [Henry Darger.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Darger) Lack of education doesn’t equate to lack of imagination. He has 2 arms Further, you’ve not presented any sort of case that Meier was possessed of scientific knowledge beyond what he could have read. Why not cite your best example of Meier’s alleged scientific acumen? [/QUOTE] Realllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllly [http://www.theyfly.com/corroboration-evidence](http://www.theyfly.com/corroboration-evidence) ---
**Author:** ![newinitiation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@newinitiation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newinitiation)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/693 "2013-09-30T19:10:20Z")
Are you, yet again, trying to force me to look at a single piece of evidence that you feel supports your claim, and ignore other evidence entirely? That is what you pseudo skeptics have been doing all along to argue your case when all along I inferred on many occasions that you have to deal with all other evidence presented in conjunction with the photos and not eliminate the vital context required to truly understand the case fully. Now you are having a hissy fit over a photo I have presented!? I linked to a picture of a food container that looks egg-fucking-zactly like the base of Meier’s “alien spacecraft”, and your answer is that the drum I linked to is slightly different than a drum found on Meier’s property. Made in the 70’s OK Don’t forget all this happened in the 70’s onwards You have the benefit of hindsight in 2013 but don’t impose todays standards on that primitive era when we had no mobile phones, wide spread personal computer use, the internet, digital camera and camcorders and so on Perhaps Meier does, in fact, have some drums with lids that have another stripe on it. That doesn’t prove that he didn’t make a model, it only proves that he didn’t use those lids to make the model. An assumption only People are accusing him of using those very trash can lids And… that picture sucks, you can’t zoom in for shit. [/QUOTE] Use your keyboard Hold down Ctrl and scroll your mouse wheel forward. ---
**Author:** ![newinitiation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@newinitiation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newinitiation)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/694 "2013-09-30T19:11:40Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > So he did make the model himself. No its to point out that he didn’t make a model ---
**Author:** ![newinitiation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@newinitiation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newinitiation)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/695 "2013-09-30T19:12:41Z")
> [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > So…no answer to the contradiction then? No contradiction ---
**Author:** ![newinitiation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@newinitiation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newinitiation)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/696 "2013-09-30T19:16:36Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > People with only one usable hand do get used to doing things differently - often as in doing things in series instead of parallel. For instance, putting the trash can lid in the tree first, \*then \*setting the camera on a rock or tree stump, \*then \*pushing the shutter release. > > Or he could have had a similarly-drunken friend with a sense of humor help him out, like the guy who made the Bigfoot costume for the famous video did. It would be a shame if Meier spent all that time drinking _alone_, wouldn’t it? How do you account for this with that false logic https://www.youtube.com/embed/omMqPu92HwU?feature=oembed&wmode=opaque ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/697 "2013-09-30T19:17:19Z")
> [@newinitiation](#): > > Realllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllly > > [http://www.theyfly.com/corroboration-evidence[/COLOR]](http://www.theyfly.com/corroboration-evidence%5B/COLOR%5D) [/QUOTE] Its hard to make heads or tails of that awfully laid-out website. From what I see they seem to be taking credit for predicting global warming? Big deal. Global warming had been [hypothesized well before 1964](http://www.aip.org/history/climate/summary.htm) Something about loss of magnetism in man and mammals? And they use an article about beached whales as proof. This is just sad… Next, Billy claims that we will find large creatures in the deep sea. Umm, file this one to go into ‘Duh’ magazine. _Seriously?_ Billy then talks about Micro-fibers and somehow that translates to nanoparticles? Please. The rest of this just gets more desperate. I’ve wasted enough time on Billy’s predictions. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/698 "2013-09-30T19:18:01Z")
> [@newinitiation](#): > > Look if the issue you are referring to is his asket and nera photo he has overlooked due to his health then he has explain it this way. > > [The Future Of Mankind - A Billy Meier Wiki - Asket and Nera Photos](http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/Asket_and_Nera_Photos) I think you’ve missed my point. What, other than a tremendous workload of genuine alien contact and being targeted by Men In Black, might explain Meier’s isses with physical evidence? [QUOTE=newinitiation] Why not? [/quote] For one, as a person who also publishes UFO-related books, he has an incentive to support Meier’s claims and support alien-contact reports generally. For two…I’ll phrase this delicately…the field of UFO studies is filled with cranks and con artists. [QUOTE=newinitiation] No it just means that had it been a hoax how could a one armed swiss farmer with meager financial means back in the 70’s out in the middle of nowhere in the swiss alps managed to write over 40 books, over 25,000 pages of information, take over 1000 crisp photos and numerous video footage whilst working to earn a living and raise his children all at the same time amonst so many other things that he has done and all this by himself without accomplices. [/quote] You are really hung up on the one-arm thing. I’m sure you’d offend other people with that disability to suggest that they can’t write books, take photos or videos, earn a living, or raise children. Helen Keller wrote 12 books, for Pete’s sake. Jim Abbot pitched in the major leagues. People with disabilities can do more than you seem to give them credit for. But, that aside…are you saying that Meier didn’t actually write his books, take the photos, record video, earn a living, and raise his children? Whether or not it’s a hoax, he really did do those things, did he not? What’s disputed is whether his books recount actual events, whether his photos are of models or TV images or aliens, and so forth, not whether he actually wrote books and took photos at all. And thirdly, how do you know that Meier had no accomplices? You’ve already noted that Stevens backs up at least some of his story, and admitted that his ex-wife claims it’s all a fraud. [QUOTE=newinitiation] For the sake of argument if this case was a hoax, she was never involved in assisting Billy as an accomplice and so I am right in that no one has accompanied Billy to assist him with taking the photos and video footage, leading one to the only inevitable conclusion that its because he has taken take photos of real ET space craft. [/quote] What makes you so sure she didn’t assist him? Or, that no one else did? Or, that assistance was required? [QUOTE=newinitiation] He has 2 arms [/quote] He sure does. If Meier had two arms, would you reject his claims? At this point, his disability appears to be absolutely central to your belief. [QUOTE=newinitiation] Realllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllly > **[Corroboration & Evidence](http://www.theyfly.com/corroboration-evidence)** > > Please also see: UFO Proof & Evidence Special Evidence Quik-Clik Overview Rahl Zahi's Analysis Report on the WCUFO Rahl Zahi's Analysis Report on the Pendulum UFO Here is an article that presents some food for thought for those who are having... [/QUOTE] I asked you to pick your best example. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/699 "2013-09-30T19:18:24Z")
> [@newinitiation](#): > > No contradiction Kinda is dude. Aliens can’t intervene and yet with Billy they do? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/700 "2013-09-30T19:20:34Z")
> [@newinitiation](#): > > How do you account for this with that false logic > > [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omMqPu92HwU](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omMqPu92HwU) Why is it so blurry? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000.md?page=34) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000.md?page=36)