# Billy Meier, whats the verdict? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 16, 2013, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000 "2013-09-16T20:03:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 38
**Author:** ![eburacum45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eburacum45/32/8690_2.png) [@eburacum45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eburacum45)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 8:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/741 "2013-10-01T08:10:03Z")
> [@Paranoid\_Randroid](#): > > This board’s denizens should step back for a moment to reflect on just how plausible the Billy Meier story is. Having perused this thread I suspect that I’m slowly being won over. Hear me out. > > Here’s how I see it. Billy Meier sounds ludicrous, right? Nordic aliens contacting a Swiss farmer to teach new age spiritualism, prophecies, assassination attempts, time travel, all dramatic stuff straight out of early schlock cinema. The alternatives seem to be: 1) Meier is crazy (he’s insane); 2) the whole thing’s fabricated (it’s an invention); or 3) everything happened more or less as Meier tells it (it’s indisputable). > > Call it the insanity / invention / indisputable trilemma. > > Now, Meier can’t be insane because his teachings — the new age stuff handed down from the Plejarans — are too full of genuine wisdom to come from a crazy person. And surely he’s not lying, because he has no _reason_ to lie but instead has everything to lose: other people insult him and even try to kill him! His wife left him and calls him a fraud! He’s a ridiculous laughing stock! > > Thus I have no option other than to conclude that aliens _did_ visit Billy Meier. Perhaps they were drunk and it was a dare? That’d explain the tree thing. This sounds like one of C.S. Lewis’ arguments. It is just as wrong when applied to Meier as when it is applied to Christianity. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 10:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/742 "2013-10-01T10:13:44Z")
> [@newinitiation](#): > > Bullshit! > Seeing as you are regurgitating from some of the materials from IIG and other skeptical forum, you already knew Actually, I have never read anything at IIG, and this is the main “skeptical forum” I participate in. It’s not regurgitating when you write it yourself. I have held an interest in the Fringe for more than forty years now. It took me a little time to recall Meier, as I seriously had not heard of him since the '70s. Then I remembered the space babes pictures. As his schtick seems to have morphed from “alien encounters” to “Gospel from Space” cultishness, I am not surprised he has been off my radar. I have little interest in cults or religious whackadoos. ---
**Author:** ![newinitiation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@newinitiation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newinitiation)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/743 "2013-10-01T11:02:45Z")
> [@DrFidelius](#): > > Actually, I have never read anything at IIG, and this is the main “skeptical forum” I participate in. It’s not regurgitating when you write it yourself. I have held an interest in the Fringe for more than forty years now. > > It took me a little time to recall Meier, as I seriously had not heard of him since the '70s. Then I remembered the space babes pictures. > > As his schtick seems to have morphed from “alien encounters” to “Gospel from Space” cultishness, I am not surprised he has been off my radar. I have little interest in cults or religious whackadoos. Oh realllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllly Only reason why you call it a hoax is because you know nothing about it nor have you read anything beyond the ad hoc pieces that the skeptics with their silly arguments have put forth. How else could it be given that none of you argument ever deals with the statements from Billy’s materials but are too busy uselessly throwing ad hominum attacks and frankly this appraoch is a poor mans method of argument because they never deal with the facts presented. ---
**Author:** ![newinitiation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@newinitiation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newinitiation)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 11:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/744 "2013-10-01T11:05:03Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > You mean the foreground. Someone walks into the frame near the camera. > And how do you know who it is? Their back is to the camera. > There’s nothing in the description of the video stating who was there. > And why does the ship need someone suspending it? That’s Billy in front of the camera ---
**Author:** ![newinitiation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@newinitiation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newinitiation)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/745 "2013-10-01T11:07:07Z")
> [@eburacum45](#): > > This sounds like one of C.S. Lewis’ arguments. It is just as wrong when applied to Meier as when it is applied to Christianity. The whole premise of all religions rests on beliefs, this includes the Christianity fable. Meier’s information delas with the unequivocal truths that anyone who can think can verify for themselves. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/746 "2013-10-01T11:11:32Z")
> [@newinitiation](#): > > Oh realllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllly > > Only reason why you call it a hoax is because you know nothing about it nor have you read anything beyond the ad hoc pieves that the skeptics with their silly arguments have put forth. > > How else could it be given that none of you argument ever deals with the statements from Billy’s materials but are too busy uselessly throwing ad hominum attacks and frankly this appraoch is a poor mans method of argument because they bever deal with the fact presented. You begin to make many typos when you get upset. You are allowed to type slower and spell-check. Why would I lie to you about my background and motives? I am not promoting a rival cult to Billy’s. Besides, I believe your repeated assertions that Meier is too clumsy and uneducated to perpetrate this ongoing saga is an example of ad hominem support. Just because a man only has one arm and a sixth-grade education does not mean he is uncreative or not clever. There is no reason to read Billy’s “materials” when there is no evidence beyond his say-so that these encounters occurred. His space aliens are simply angels or fairies in shiny pants. His story is one for folklorists to examine, not scientists. I am very happy you have found a religious leader whose teachings resonate with you. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/747 "2013-10-01T11:21:17Z")
> [@newinitiation](#): > > How does a one armed Swiss farmer with a 6th grade education and meager financial means stuck out in the middle of nowhere in the Swiss alps come up with so many variations of the spaceship design MULTIPLE garbage cans? ---
**Author:** ![newinitiation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@newinitiation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newinitiation)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/748 "2013-10-01T11:21:43Z")
> [@DrFidelius](#): > > You begin to make many typos when you get upset. You are allowed to type slower and spell-check. > > Why would I lie to you about my background and motives? I am not promoting a rival cult to Billy’s. Besides, I believe your repeated assertions that Meier is too clumsy and uneducated to perpetrate this ongoing saga is an example of ad hominem support. Just because a man only has one arm and a sixth-grade education does not mean he is uncreative or not clever. > > There is no reason to read Billy’s “materials” when there is no evidence beyond his say-so that these encounters occurred. His space aliens are simply angels or fairies in shiny pants. His story is one for folklorists to examine, not scientists. > > I am very happy you have found a religious leader whose teachings resonate with you. I mean seriously for someone who purports to have had interest in the fringe and paranormal for many decades and yet have not come across Billy Meier’s material until recently when the creation of the world wide web from infancy to now covers at least 2 decades I find very hard to believe. Its possible and I am not accusing you of lying but either you had no such interest only until recently having bumped into various sites dealing with the fringe or you don’t want to admit it for the fear of losing the argument. I am not here to argue nor to ram Billy’s material down people’s throats, I am here to state the facts as they truly are about the case which often is met with ad hominum attacks and derogatory remarks. People should apply their everyday reasoning and logic to the Billy meier case just as they would driving, shopping, doing the laundry or doing business instead of suspending it just because they can hide behind the safety of their anonymity and take the 'anything goes approach" and become illogical. ---
**Author:** ![newinitiation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@newinitiation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newinitiation)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 11:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/749 "2013-10-01T11:22:51Z")
> [@Smeghead](#): > > MULTIPLE garbage cans? Coincidence ---
**Author:** ![newinitiation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@newinitiation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newinitiation)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/750 "2013-10-01T11:25:54Z")
New UN Report Confirms Billy Meier’s Information from…1951 > **[They Fly Blog & News](https://theyflyblog.com/)** > > The Billy Meier UFO Contacts - Singularly Authentic - Ongoing for 80 Years - The Key to Our Future Survival » Prophecies & Predictions, Overpopulation, UFOs ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/751 "2013-10-01T11:49:42Z")
> [@newinitiation](#): > > I mean seriously for someone who purports to have had > interest in the fringe and paranormal for many decades and yet have not come across Billy Meier’s material until recently when the creation of the world wide web from infancy to now covers at least 2 decades I find very hard to believe. > > Its possible and I am not accusing you of lying but either you had no such interest only until recently having bumped into various sites dealing with the fringe or you don’t want to admit it for the fear of losing the argument. > > I am not here to argue nor to ram Billy’s material down people’s throats, I am here to state the facts as they truly are about the case which often is met with ad hominum attacks and derogatory remarks. > > People should apply their everyday reasoning and logic to the Billy meier case just as they would driving, shopping, doing the laundry or doing business instead of suspending it just because they can hide behind the safety of their anonymity and take the 'anything goes approach" and become illogical. Never said I had never heard of Meier until recently. I said I had not heard of him for quite a while. When he first started showing off his pictures of space babes back in the 1970s there was some interest, but his crudely faked photos and absurd religious musings made him irrelevant to UFOlogists by the early '80s. I am sorry if I was unclear about my Meier-interest timeline. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/752 "2013-10-01T11:58:11Z")
> [@newinitiation](#): > > Oh realllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllly > > Only reason why you call it a hoax is because you know nothing about it nor have you read anything beyond the ad hoc pieces that the skeptics with their silly arguments have put forth. Personally, I am calling it a hoax because I used my eyes to look at the photos. They are childishly bad fakes. Ridiculous photos of obvious models. So blatantly, laughably bad, that any person who would seriously investigate\* his claims has already given up the title of “reasonable person” and can be safely placed into the “trying desperately to believe” column. \*My Googling of “Billy Meier Garbage Can” to provide the photo of the food container lid used for the WCUFO base was entirely for entertainment purposes, and in no way should be construed to mean that I feel his claims are “legitimate” enough to warrant investigation. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/753 "2013-10-01T12:15:08Z")
> [@newinitiation](#): > > New UN Report Confirms Billy Meier’s Information from…1951 I’m surprised you would cite the global depopulation conspiracists in support of Billy Meier. Though it would be interesting :dubious: to see exactly what ol’ Billy said in 1951 regarding climate change, rather than someone claiming the UN report “confirms” his alleged prognostications. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/754 "2013-10-01T12:19:05Z")
> [@newinitiation](#): > > To your first point, show me by a direct demonstration yourself, you’ve got the youtube, post the video of yourself pulling it off. Um…no. You are wildly overestimating my emotional investment in this. > [@newinitiation](#): > > To your second point, they were initially skeptics and not believers, hell, they were a private investigative firm who’ve worked on cases of fraud and so on and never dealt with a case involving UFOs prior to their investigation of Billy Meier Just like Project Alpha. And since the Meier case, Lee Elders has gone on to make a living writing books about UFOs and conducting investigations. He has a financial stake in people believing in this stuff, just like Stevens. > [@newinitiation](#): > > To your third point, What! “mere words of Stevens” insufficient!? > Dude Wendelle has credentials > > [The Future Of Mankind - A Billy Meier Wiki - Wendelle Stevens](http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/Wendelle_Stevens) > > He wasn’t a believer and how can you believe in something you know nothing about, he was there to investigate the hell out of the Meir case He was a UFOlogist before, and after. What do UFOlogists do? They believe in alien spacecraft. He’s about as far from an unbiased investigator as you can get. > [@newinitiation](#): > > To your fourth point, No what I am saying is that a one armed man, no matter how brilliant they are cannot possibly have pulled off all the things that they are accused of doing. > > I am not having a go at people with disabilities or if they happen to have just one arm. If a deaf and blind woman can right 12 books, a man with one hand can pitch in major league baseball, a man with one arm can [climb Mt. Everest](http://www.garyguller.com/), I have no trouble believing that a man with one arm could construct and film UFO models. > [@newinitiation](#): > > To your fifth point, Billy wrote all his books himself and those that deal with Creational spiritual laws are such a remarkable and incredible pieces of work that you can’t find anywhere from any number of genius authors out there. It’s fine that you find value in his philosophy, but it’s got nothing to do with whether he’s really been visited by aliens. > [@newinitiation](#): > > The asket and nera photos were forgeries perpetuated by the MIB , they got a hold of Billy’s originals by threatening the guy That’s a ridiculous story, and the fact that you believe it makes me strongly doubt that you were initially skeptical about Meier. > [@newinitiation](#): > > To your sixth point, to answer your question, if indeed there were accomplices, they have more to gain financially by coming out with their information than to hide it. > In a treacherous world that we live in where even children betray their parents for a buck or two, betraying another for a buck wouldn’t be all that difficult for people who had helped Billy perpetuate a fraud, if it was a scam. Depends on who they are and why they are helping. If it’s purely for monetary gain, exposing Meier would interrupt the income stream from books and such. If it’s to promote a New Age philosophy by wrapping it in UFO trappings and a touch of Messianism, exposing Meier would cause (some) people to stop believing in the philosophy. > [@newinitiation](#): > > your seventh point see this video of interview with Billy’s ex-wife > > [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=viHQJbFa-x8](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=viHQJbFa-x8) I can’t watch video at the PC I’m currently using, so I’ll have to watch that later on my home PC. > [@newinitiation](#): > > To your eighth point > > I don’t believe in Billy Meier words instead I KNOW that he is telling the truth, one arm two arms or no arms. Ok then. You just seem very invested in the one-arm aspect, is all. > [@newinitiation](#): > > To your last point, if you deal with one aspect of the case only all you are doing is ripping things out of context Why does a scientific claim or prediction need a context? ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/755 "2013-10-01T12:32:43Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > That’s a ridiculous story, and the fact that you believe it makes me strongly doubt that you were initially skeptical about Meier. The “initially skeptical” thing is such a staple of woo, that if you hear it, it virtually guarantees that the person is mindlessly credulous about lots of things. “I was skeptical at first, but once I tried Woo-In-A-Can™, hair grew back all over my body, I became irresistible to women and made millions selling useless remedies to nincompoops.” ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/756 "2013-10-01T13:15:10Z")
> [@newinitiation](#): > > It’s ET Plejaren Quetzal in the background remotely suspending his ship. > Meier wanted him to move the thing but he refused. > > Although there is a slight movement of the ship > [@newinitiation](#): > > That’s Billy in front of the camera First it’s the Plejaren, then it’s Billy. Obviously you have no idea who it is. How do you know anything about what was said that day? If that’s Billy, who’s running the camera? ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/757 "2013-10-01T13:35:27Z")
> [@newinitiation](#): > > I mean what is the sense of asking a third party on what Billy thinks, why not ask him directly yourself from the FIGU forum on Q&A to Billy when it opens Since the only two reasonable options are that Billy is either a con man, or he’s batshit crazy, I don’t think I would gain much by asking him directly. As much as I enjoy seeing the crazy shit believed by the seemingly otherwise functional people on the fringe, I don’t enjoy engaging with the mentally ill. This thread has started looking to me more like the latter. Taunting the schizophrenic guy who lives down at the bus station is something that harms him. This thread is looking a lot like that. I think I’ll back out now. ---
**Author:** ![Paranoid\_Randroid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/paranoid_randroid/32/18_2.png) [@Paranoid\_Randroid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paranoid_Randroid)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/758 "2013-10-01T13:48:26Z")
> [@eburacum45](#): > > This sounds like one of C.S. Lewis’ arguments. It is just as wrong when applied to Meier as when it is applied to Christianity. No, that can’t be right — the style of argumentation preferred by Billy Meier’s disciples in no way amusingly resembles popular religious apologetics. Just keep an open mind and I’m sure you’ll be as convinced as I am. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/759 "2013-10-01T14:04:41Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > First it’s the Plejaren, then it’s Billy. Obviously you have no idea who it is. That’s Michael Stipe, there in the corner. He can later be seen in the spotlight, losing his [del]religion[/del] alien photos. ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/760 "2013-10-01T14:08:02Z")
Hey, there’s a comic book version on that site. Awesome. Nobody has said “Haw Haw” yet though. And no dogs that I’ve found. Also, Aliens have great 70’s hair. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000.md?page=37) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000.md?page=39)