# Billy Meier, whats the verdict? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 16, 2013, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000 "2013-09-16T20:03:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 39
**Author:** ![mystic7](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecccb3/32.png) [@mystic7](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mystic7)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/761 "2013-10-01T19:31:30Z")
Runner pat, Let me remind you we don’t have the original Gospel of Matthew which is the nearest cognate to the Talmud Jmmanuel. A scholarly analysis of the two indictates the two are definitely related. They cannot both be originals. The TJ has more more evidence backing than Matthew. We have a living witness who discovered it’s not so with Matthew which only has religious faith and belief to back it up. So in all probability, one is the original and the other is a falsification. Matthew can only be traced back with authority to c325 AD. The author of the TJ claims personal knowledge with it subject is Jmmanuel- none of the Gospels make this claim. The historical Jesus has never been proven in conventional historical terns. Linguistic, historical, and other factual information support the TJ much more than Matthew. ---
**Author:** ![mystic7](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecccb3/32.png) [@mystic7](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mystic7)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/762 "2013-10-01T19:41:41Z")
Jmmamuel is spelled with a J- the spelling is based on ancient Lyrian. Jmmanuel was the son of an Jschwjsch pronounced “ishwish”-- translated 'king or master of wisdom. Jschwjsch is abbreviated JHWH. Jmmanuel means something like "the one with JHWH knowledge. ---
**Author:** ![johhny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e495f1/32.png) [@johhny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johhny)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/763 "2013-10-01T20:10:12Z")
**Questions and observations for believers and NON-believers alike.** 1. Name calling and debunking by belittling people on the opposite side of the opinion, is not very holistic and overly aggressive. That is unnecessary behavior, if one is a true master then one would never put himself above others. 2. Yet if one wants to seek the truth, or what is close to “fact”, then critical questions are necessary and it’s through questioning that new knowledge and wisdom are learned. But here are some critical questions that are unanswered by the Billy Meier case, or perhaps they are - maybe I have missed something. [INDENT] [INDENT][INDENT]\*\*a) \*\*Having looked at the supportive evidence of the WCUFO photos, there are some discrepancies. The paper with the “Blender” simulations and different distance calculating formulas - is incomplete and has assumptions on some variables (factors that affect the calculations). Which makes it an incomplete investigation. Blender’s engine does not by default calculate exact modeling of our world, because the engines algorithms for light diffusion and specular reflection are not real world but are simulated (to get to real world, some fine tuning has to be done) None of this is mentioned in the paper. Furthermore there are factors, like the unknown true size of the reflected image in the metallic spheres - in the real picture (since it’s blurry and not HD, maybe there was Vaseline on the lens?). A minor change in that factor can variate the final “diameter” of the UFO by a very large margin, the range can be from 0.5metres to 20metres! Hence this paper is BY NO MEANS PROOF yet! But a nice start in the direction of an investigation, although no conclusive results in there! \*\*b) \*\*The spiritual teachings spread by Billy Meier are not exclusively new and attributed to his personal experience, but in fact have been around for quiet some time, in many different kinds of cultures and traditions. From Buddhism to Christianity, the core values are; love, compassion towards all living beings, forgiveness, understanding, respect for free will and peace within. From them stem the characteristics of; non-judgement, support, caring, kindness and etc. A person who reached such a level of inner harmony (became en-lightened) is no longer conflicted within himself and with others, and will live a peaceful life. A society who reached such a level, and have advanced technology, can only be presumed also have a higher level of life and mastery of skills (sciences, arts, etc). So to claim that one man is the only prophet who must be listened to exclusively, is to ignore the many wise and enlightened people before/after him. Also it’s idolization, which unfortunately happens a lot in our society to this day. Instead of living the teaching, the wisdom that is being passed, many of us idolize and instead live like “followers”. **c)** Then to ask some simple random questions. [ul] [li]Why does the WCUFO look like its designed by a 70’s funky engineering team? By Billy’s words and other UFOlogists, advanced beings/races have reached interstellar travel - a MILLENNIUM ago (or more), so why would a race’s level of ship model design change on a 10 year basis, or even every 100 years? Wouldn’t it be so advanced and harmonized to remain the same design over at-least 100 years? [/li] [li]Why do some videos of Billy’s (some that I have seen with Japanese interviewers) have the discs flying in repetitive circular motions as if on a pendulum or even on a hanging on a string? And he even states on the video, something on the lines of “usually they fly in direct motions in straight paths”. Well where is that video? Where are the videos where they fly in direct paths but also maybe in zig zags, or different formations? Nowadays there are videos out there (even Youtube) of cool flying vectors by UFO’s…Why didn’t we see that in the 1970’s?[/li] [li]And when questioned about the ship’s lower disc structure looking quiet similar to the lid of the branded round plastic container. There is a whole new story of telepathic communications with the Nazi’s and blueprints getting passed on to modern engineers? Was this answer really given by Billy? If yes, then our space friends who have time travel made a gross misjudgement almost gave superior technology to the insane Nazi regime…Isn’t that contrary to the spiritual teachings?[/li][/ul] [/INDENT][/INDENT][/INDENT] Anyways none of the points/observations above are to cause dispute, they are questions and points. Nor does it try to dispute the big question… Are we alone in the Universe? Well according to latest findings by NASA’s satellites, there are quiet many Earth-like planets (air,water,atmosphere) that are presumed to have been discovered (Google it). And the sheer magnitude of the size of the Universe, makes it statistically very highly likely we aren’t. (again try and turn off the exclusivity ego within) Plus the fact that there are now quiet many videos online of amazing UFO footage, numerous multi-witnessed accounts of such events around the world, and some declassified government information which points to the fact to the existence of Unidentified Flying Objects. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/764 "2013-10-01T20:15:34Z")
> [@mystic7](#): > > Runner pat, Let me remind you we don’t have the original Gospel of Matthew which is the nearest cognate to the Talmud Jmmanuel. A scholarly analysis of the two indictates the two are definitely related. They cannot both be originals. The TJ has more more evidence backing than Matthew. We have a living witness who discovered it’s not so with Matthew which only has religious faith and belief to back it up. So in all probability, one is the original and the other is a falsification. Matthew can only be traced back with authority to c325 AD. The author of the TJ claims personal knowledge with it subject is Jmmanuel- none of the Gospels make this claim. The historical Jesus has never been proven in conventional historical terns. Linguistic, historical, and other factual information support the TJ much more than Matthew. Most of the skeptics on this board are atheists. Not being an atheist (I’m a Conservadox Jew), I can’t be completely sure what they think. But I feel I can make a damn good educated guess. They’d readily agree that the Gospel Of Matthew is a fraud and that Jesus never existed. They would, however, disagree that either of those things lends credence to the Talmud Jmmanuel. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/765 "2013-10-01T20:32:25Z")
> [@newinitiation](#): > > Photoshop or for that matter personal computers did not exist back in the 70’s, so what decade are you living in. I didn’t say that your guy used Photoshop. You have chosen to rebut a point no one made. The guy’s phtographs are crappy. They’re badly focused, badly crafted, and obviously faked. You can see the molding lines in the plastic of the garbage pail lid he used as the base for his toy spaceship. I was doing better stuff in the 60’s with a Revell Geminii capsule model and spray-painted star-field background. This guy isn’t even competent. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/766 "2013-10-01T20:33:45Z")
> [@eburacum45](#): > > This sounds like one of C.S. Lewis’ arguments. It is just as wrong when applied to Meier as when it is applied to Christianity. I thought he was consciously parodying C.S. Lewis! ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/767 "2013-10-01T20:39:25Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > . . . They’d readily agree that the Gospel Of Matthew is a fraud and that Jesus never existed. They would, however, disagree that either of those things lends credence to the Talmud Jmmanuel. I think most atheists don’t dismiss the gospels as fraudulent, simply as lacking credible evidential provenance. They are usually held to be stories written down after the events described, from other people’s memories of what happened, and thus subject to the usual problems of transcribed oral history. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/768 "2013-10-01T21:34:46Z")
Yeah, speaking as an atheist, I don’t think of the Gospels are frauds. I don’t think they’re _true_, but I don’t think they were written with the intent to deceive. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/769 "2013-10-01T21:37:03Z")
**Miller** , **Trinopus** I sit corrected. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/770 "2013-10-02T00:37:09Z")
> [@mystic7](#): > > Runner pat, Let me remind you we don’t have the original Gospel of Matthew which is the nearest cognate to the Talmud Jmmanuel. A scholarly analysis of the two indictates the two are definitely related. They cannot both be originals. The TJ has more more evidence backing than Matthew. We have a living witness who discovered it’s not so with Matthew which only has religious faith and belief to back it up. So in all probability, one is the original and the other is a falsification. Matthew can only be traced back with authority to c325 AD. The author of the TJ claims personal knowledge with it subject is Jmmanuel- none of the Gospels make this claim. The historical Jesus has never been proven in conventional historical terns. Linguistic, historical, and other factual information support the TJ much more than Matthew. One big difference. The guys who found the Gospels managed to hold on to them. They showed them to others who showed them to others until a whole lot of people had seen them and worked with them. They didn’t try to hide them away. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/771 "2013-10-02T01:02:44Z")
Y’know, if one is going to try to persuade others of silly things, it would be better to stick to purely imaginary stuff like spaceships, rather than demonstrating that one is truly ignorant of history and linguistics: > [@mystic7](#): > > Matthew can only be traced back with authority to c325 AD. I am not sure why so many believers of odd get this wrong, but there is quite a bit of evidence that the New Testament was written long before the Council of Nicaea. It appears to be a tenet of the faith of New Agey believers that the institutional church created the New Testament at the Council of Nicaea. In fact, that appears to be a hallmark of such beliefs, (although a few atheists seem to believe it, too). The claim is silly. We have evidence of the canonical scriptures dating back at least 155 years prior to Nicaea and the Council in 325 never even names the scriptures. I would be curious who first invented the “325” story and corrupted the education of so many (New Age) people. (This is not a claim that the Gospel of Matthew is factually accurate or even True in some sense. It is simply a note that there is evidence that it was written before 325.) > [@mystic7](#): > > Jmmamuel is spelled with a J- the spelling is based on ancient Lyrian. Jmmanuel was the son of an Jschwjsch pronounced “ishwish”-- translated 'king or master of wisdom. Jschwjsch is abbreviated JHWH. Jmmanuel means something like "the one with JHWH knowledge. Bushwa! The letter “J” did not even exist in ancient times. It was a later European development to distinguish, in writing, between vocalic and consonantal variants of the letter “I”. Germanic languages used it to transliterate the consonantal sound of the Hebrew letter _yodh_. JHWH is nothing more than a Germanic transliteration of the Hebrew name of God, spelled\* yodh he waw he\*. (The third letter also is transliterated in various ways, based on the language into which is it brought, and may occur as _vav_. In English, _yodh_ is transliterated as “Y”. There is no “Jschwjsch” and there is no “Jmmanuel” unless they only lived some time around 1524, which is the first documented examination of the letter “J”. As to “ancient Lyrian,” I doubt that time travellers actually brought any of the World of Warcraft maps back to any regions around the Mediterranean (which, I presume, is where “Lyria” is supposed to have been). ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/772 "2013-10-02T01:26:01Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > . . . It appears to be a tenet of the faith of New Agey believers that the institutional church created the New Testament at the Council of Nicaea. In fact, that appears to be a hallmark of such beliefs, (although a few atheists seem to believe it, too). > The claim is silly. We have evidence of the canonical scriptures dating back at least 155 years prior to Nicaea and the Council in 325 never even names the scriptures. . . . Misinformation is sort of “pseudo genetic.” It propagates. I had thought (until you corrected me!) that the Council of Nicaea was the committee that decided which books were to be included in the Bible and which were to be left out. I did know that the gospels were written quite a bit earlier, but I had just somehow gotten it that Nicaea was the place the books were selected. We live in a vast sea of information…and, alas, much of it is wrong! The SDMB (and [snopes.com](http://snopes.com)) serve a wonderful purpose, in helping us learn (unlearn!) better. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/773 "2013-10-02T02:05:52Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Bushwa! > > The letter “J” did not even exist in ancient times. It was a later European development to distinguish, in writing, between vocalic and consonantal variants of the letter “I”. Germanic languages used it to transliterate the consonantal sound of the Hebrew letter _yodh_. JHWH is nothing more than a Germanic transliteration of the Hebrew name of God, spelled\* yodh he waw he\*. (The third letter also is transliterated in various ways, based on the language into which is it brought, and may occur as _vav_. In English, _yodh_ is transliterated as “Y”. > > There is no “Jschwjsch” and there is no “Jmmanuel” unless they only lived some time around 1524, which is the first documented examination of the letter “J”. > > As to “ancient Lyrian,” I doubt that time travellers actually brought any of the World of Warcraft maps back to any regions around the Mediterranean (which, I presume, is where “Lyria” is supposed to have been). I believe the Lyrians he was referring to are extra terrestrials. A quick googling seems to support this. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/774 "2013-10-02T02:21:28Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > I believe the Lyrians he was referring to are extra terrestrials. A quick googling seems to support this. Which still means that they did not arrive before 1524, or so, in order to use the letter J (oddly). And yet, they are trying to lay claim to myths that were over 2,000 years old on Earth by that time. (Not to mention even using the Roman alphabet for the names of an extraterrestrial species.) I don’t mind the silliness. I object to the basic ignorance they demonstrate in their tales. James Branch Cabell would never have been caught out on such obvious failures and he knew he was writing fiction. ---
**Author:** ![newinitiation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@newinitiation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newinitiation)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/775 "2013-10-02T07:10:57Z")
> [@DrFidelius](#): > > Never said I had never heard of Meier until recently. I said I had not heard of him for quite a while. When he first started showing off his pictures of space babes back in the 1970s there was some interest, but his crudely faked photos and absurd religious musings made him irrelevant to UFOlogists by the early '80s. > > I am sorry if I was unclear about my Meier-interest timeline. There are huge implications and even severe consequences for the powers-that-be if Billy’s information was taken seriously by the mainstream and the only way to prevent harm to the corporatocracy and the financial oligarchs and its crony cliques of powerful banking elite’s interest is to bag the shit out of it with any means possible. What better way than to use agents of disinformation through the control of their mass media control points and suppress the fuck out of it till kingdom come. There are ingenious ways and intrigues perpetuated by these secret services in order to make Billy look like a fringe lunatic desperately in need of some psychological counseling and these fuckers have done a spectacular job over the decades. The the question of hijacking the popular opinion through the control of the mass media has to be looked at because only by understanding how much of our mainstream media is controlled by a handful of corporations and the few human beings that are behind it, can people truly appreciate the extent of the corruption and their ability to suppress vital information especially truth tellers like Billy. Their strategy is as old as the civilisation itself and people only have to look at the NAZI propaganda apparatus to get an idea as to how easy it is to hijack and control the mass minds and as Edward Bernays had aptly put it ‘engineering public consent’. ---
**Author:** ![newinitiation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@newinitiation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newinitiation)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/776 "2013-10-02T07:27:43Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Personally, I am calling it a hoax because I used my eyes to look at the photos. > > They are childishly bad fakes. Ridiculous photos of obvious models. So blatantly, laughably bad, that any person who would seriously investigate\* his claims has already given up the title of “reasonable person” and can be safely placed into the “trying desperately to believe” column. > > \*My Googling of “Billy Meier Garbage Can” to provide the photo of the food container lid used for the WCUFO base was entirely for entertainment purposes, and in no way should be construed to mean that I feel his claims are “legitimate” enough to warrant investigation. Geezzzzzz I mean seriously dude how fucking easy would it be for a scientists to just rely on your method of investigation to come up with their peer review thesis and findings and then to win the noble prize for their efforts. There wouldn’t be a scientist in the world who would complain about it to have carte blanche on ‘seeing with two eyeballs only’ approach to their scientific methodology. But then again it’ll be a fools game towards any acquisition of truth which science rests upon for advancement and legitimacy. So how irrational do you want to get seeing as even a monkey knows a bit about logic and common sense to hold onto a tree branch if it doesn’t want to fall off. Know this, that our eyes can deceive us, seeing is not always believing, there is more than meets the eye and its the eye that sees but brain that thinks. ---
**Author:** ![newinitiation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@newinitiation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newinitiation)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 7:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/777 "2013-10-02T07:33:55Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > I’m surprised you would cite the global depopulation conspiracists in support of Billy Meier. > > Though it would be interesting :dubious: to see exactly what ol’ Billy said in 1951 regarding climate change, rather than someone claiming the UN report “confirms” his alleged prognostications. Its a conspiracy theory without any basis of truth Jack The rulers of this world cannot rule over its subjects if there are no subject left to rule. That piece of shitty depopulation agenda conspiracy theory is perpetuated by the loonies (not Moonies) not exactly all there in the upstairs department. The IPCC have got it right and so did Billy ---
**Author:** ![Truman\_Burbank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@Truman\_Burbank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truman_Burbank)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/778 "2013-10-02T08:00:04Z")
“but brain that thinks.” Some brains think better than others. Your mileage may very. Bad brains may not be returned for store credit. Symptoms of bad thinking may include, but not be limited to, belief in random conspiracy theories which depend upon fictional entities such as the Men In Black engaging in rumored behaviors to create desired outcomes, and an inability to accurately shave with Occam’s Razor. Facts in the rearview mirror may be less factly than they first appear. Please think responsibly. ---
**Author:** ![newinitiation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@newinitiation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newinitiation)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 8:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/779 "2013-10-02T08:11:14Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > Um…no. You are wildly overestimating my emotional investment in this Know that you have already committed to it as soon as you’ve made your claim against the Meier case. So why the duplicity? > [@Human\_Action](#): > > Just like Project Alpha. And since the Meier case, Lee Elders has gone on to make a living writing books about UFOs and conducting investigations. He has a financial stake in people believing in this stuff, just like Stevens Look damn it, you are conveniently ignoring the vital context leading up to how these independent private investigators ended up investigating the Meier case to begin with when they never had a vested interest let alone the motivation to investigate it in the first place and all that in addition to footing their own bills which amounted to 22 trips from USA to Switzerland overall and tens of thousands of their own money out of their own pockets, I mean all this for what! And you insinuate that they’ve had a financial stake in the whole matter, for fuck sake! It was only after their first and their only first investigation of this kind did they then take this Ufology seriously and never before. So what part of the above statement don’t you understand! > [@Human\_Action](#): > > He was a UFOlogist before, and after. What do UFOlogists do? They believe in alien spacecraft. He’s about as far from an unbiased investigator as you can get Just because Wendelle Stevens had figured out the possibility that we are not alone in the universe through his other painstaking Ufological research does not negate his credibility nor of his findings about the truth of the Billy Meier case. He has approached the case with utter most integrity and dignity for which he deserves our thanks and gratitude for his efforts. One day you will come to thank the likes of Wendelle Stevens, Tome Welsh, Lee Elders, Brit Elders, Jim Dilletoso, Gary Kinder, Dr James Deardorff, Michael Horn, Gaiaguys, Dr Dietmar Rothe, Jose Barreto, Eurasian Insitutue, Circle of humanity, the Core 49 and passive FIGU members and not to mention Billy, the Plejaren, ET Federation members many other supporters I have not mentioned here and make amends for the past slurs, profanities and malice you’ve leveled at case. The future will of course tell. > [@Human\_Action](#): > > If a deaf and blind woman can right 12 books, a man with one hand can pitch in major league baseball, a man with one arm can [climb Mt. Everest](http://www.garyguller.com/), I have no trouble believing that a man with one arm could construct and film UFO models. No but tell these people you’ve mentioned to do that Billy has achieved so far. > [@Human\_Action](#): > > It’s fine that you find value in his philosophy, but it’s got nothing to do with whether he’s really been visited by aliens. That’s where we diverge and you are entitled to your opinion but seeing as you don’t know anything about the case beyond the cursory, its inevitable that you would come to such a conclusion. > [@Human\_Action](#): > > That’s a ridiculous story, and the fact that you believe it makes me strongly doubt that you were initially skeptical about Meier. I was and I’ll say it again I’ve written this before on numerous occasions over the years in different forums that I was skeptical to begin with especially after seeing the close up photo of WCUFO hovering above Billy’s van and I was offended. > [@Human\_Action](#): > > Depends on who they are and why they are helping. If it’s purely for monetary gain, exposing Meier would interrupt the income stream from books and such. If it’s to promote a New Age philosophy by wrapping it in UFO trappings and a touch of Messianism, exposing Meier would cause (some) people to stop believing in the philosophy. Here we go again that irrational monetary incentive thing. Hey FIGU is a non profit OK! Do you know what this complex arrangement entails. Yes utter transparency of one’s books and financial figures > [@Human\_Action](#): > > I can’t watch video at the PC I’m currently using, so I’ll have to watch that later on my home PC. > [@Human\_Action](#): > > Ok then. You just seem very invested in the one-arm aspect, is all. Well think about it Doing our daily chores with two arms if hard enough imagine with one arm and to do all that Billy has done over the years not to mention many more > [@Human\_Action](#): > > Why does a scientific claim or prediction need a context? The context it was given is what I am referring to and how they had come about not to mention all predictions given having come to pass which is all the more remarkable given that there is absence of erroneous predictive information strongly suggesting that it wasn’t a guess work nor back dating involved. ---
**Author:** ![newinitiation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@newinitiation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newinitiation)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 8:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/780 "2013-10-02T08:18:31Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > The “initially skeptical” thing is such a staple of woo, that if you hear it, it virtually guarantees that the person is mindlessly credulous about lots of things. > > “I was skeptical at first, but once I tried Woo-In-A-Can™, hair grew back all over my body, I became irresistible to women and made millions selling useless remedies to nincompoops.” Think about it for a minute dude It is vital that we humans are skeptical of a lot of things. But this shouldn’t be at the detriment of reason, common sense and most important of all, the truth. Being skeptical doesn’t mean you should throw out the baby with the bathwater. It just means that you suspend your judgment either for or against until you have sufficiently dealt with all available evidence to a satisfactory conclusion either way. Obviously there are dangers of personal bias, prejudice and any other human’s faulty characteristics which will come to play in any process of inquiry but that’s why we make sure the material can be corroborated from independent sources totally independent of personal interests and bias as much as this is feasible. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000.md?page=38) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000.md?page=40)