# Billy Meier, whats the verdict? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 16, 2013, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000 "2013-09-16T20:03:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 43
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/841 "2013-10-03T12:06:44Z")
> [@newinitiation](#): > > Look the same way that any honest person would purchase a book from a bookstore or [amazon.com](http://amazon.com) to read books of his/her own interest, the TJ is also a copyrighted book in which a great deal of efforts towards writing and then publishing it was undertaken, so why would anyone want to rip it off and deny a source of pay towards its creator by downloading illegal copies of the book. > ] As other have said, I don’t want to rip anybody off nor am I asking for anything illegal. The torah, New Testament, Bhagavad Ghita, Tao Te Ching, The Book Of Mormon etc are all legally available free online. I understand that people need money to live on. But, if a person’s true interest is in sharing enlightenment and spreading an important message, then it seems they would make the material available for free. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/842 "2013-10-03T12:16:10Z")
> [@newinitiation](#): > > Just to shave off several years or two for your sake, one of prophecies deals with a large space based telescope which will be called the planet seeker in the year 2025. A space telescope, ho-hum. What, actually, is the prediction? > [@](#): > > So you’ve got 12 years Until what? > [@](#): > > The Henoch prophecies also has the Vatican being completely destroyed by the eruption of Mt Vesuvius and an earthquake and the pope will no longer reside in Rome as a result. > > [The Future Of Mankind - A Billy Meier Wiki - Contact Report 215](http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/Contact_Report_215) When will that happen? I’m making out my long-term calendar. That site is incomprehensible – what’s the actual date? > [@](#): > > In the contact notes it also mentions a devastating earthquake off the Pacific North-west of USA near Oregon but also San Fransisco will be decimated. When? Are you sure it’s not referring to the one a century ago? > [@](#): > > Not to be outdone, there is also the La Palma’s Cumbre Vieja volcano which will crumble to the sea calling a mega tsunami that wipes off the chain of Islands in the Canary Islands but also devastate much of the east coast of USA including New York and Washington When? > [@](#): > > Depending on the severity the death toll from this tsunami may run into millions. When? “May” run into millions? So _one_ death would make this an incredibly accurate prediction from a soothsayer of monumental proportions? Impressive! What good is a prediction without a date? I can predict gloom, doom and rumors of boom, but so can everyone else. Why should we listen to anyone who merely invents fantasies that can never be seen? ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/843 "2013-10-03T12:25:08Z")
> [@newinitiation](#): > > In the contact notes it also mentions a devastating earthquake off the Pacific North-west of USA near Oregon but also San Fransisco will be decimated. Well, that’s a pretty safe prophecy if no timeline is given. Plenty of scientists would agree that at some point in the future there’ll be severe earthquake damage in that region. It’d be a little more impressive if, say, the prophecies accurately called for another big one along the New Madrid fault in 2014. But prophecies have to be kept as vague as possible for plausible deniability (plus there have to be lots of them so that _something_ can be claimed to have come true eventually. I’m sticking to Tampa Bay over the Red Sox and Detroit over Oakland.\* \*Billy Meier has probably put all his money on the White Sox. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/844 "2013-10-03T12:54:18Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Billy Meier has probably put all his money on the White Sox. Actually, it looks like he went all in for Toledo. Go Mud Hens! ---
**Author:** ![mystic7](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecccb3/32.png) [@mystic7](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mystic7)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/845 "2013-10-03T21:12:57Z")
If you Google four winds Talmud Jmmanuel you get a link to an unofficially PDF file of the TJ. This apparently is an early edition which was considered to have errors. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/846 "2013-10-04T01:50:36Z")
> [@mystic7](#): > > If you Google four winds Talmud Jmmanuel you get a link to an unofficially PDF file of the TJ. This apparently is an early edition which was considered to have errors. Thank you very much! I am currently having connection problems (I’m still on dial up) and can’t get the file to download. But, tomorrow I shall go to Dunkin Donuts, buy a vanilla bean coolatta and use the free wi fi to download the file. Likely, I shall then return to this thread with many questions. ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/847 "2013-10-04T02:01:02Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > Thank you very much! I am currently having connection problems (I’m still on dial up) and can’t get the file to download. But, tomorrow I shall go to Dunkin Donuts, buy a vanilla bean coolatta and use the free wi fi to download the file. Likely, I shall then return to this thread with many questions. Many questions and a coolatta. ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/848 "2013-10-04T02:03:32Z")
Sorry, should be jcoolatta. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/849 "2013-10-04T02:21:53Z")
> [@Smeghead](#): > > . . . If that’s true, and these superior beings that you so admire and look up to are taking this strategy, why are you three actively working against them by fighting so hard to convince other people that they actually exist? . . . But by doing so badly, they actually undermine the ostensible argument. (We all know that certain Creationists are actually Evolutionist shills, arguing so badly that they make Evilution look good. See? Everything actually promotes its opposite…) Is there any more data on this parchment preserved in resin? I’d really like to know where it is at this time, and who discovered it, and where. If we’re just talking Joseph Smith and gold plates, then, ah, never mind, not interested. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/850 "2013-10-04T02:26:18Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Is there any more data on this parchment preserved in resin? I’d really like to know where it is at this time, and who discovered it, and where. If we’re just talking Joseph Smith and gold plates, then, ah, never mind, not interested. As I understand it, the original was destroyed in a Mossad attack. The man who studied and translated the manuscript (something Rashid) was killed. But, by that time Rashid had already sent a partial German translation to Billy. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/851 "2013-10-04T04:39:39Z")
[Most readable link I could find.](http://www.yumpu.com/en/document/view/9541959/talmud-of-jmmanuel-four-winds-10) The Book of Mormon is is a highly accurate historical textbook compared to this dreck. Whoever wrote this must have been sniffing extraterrestrial airplane glue while drinking moonshine made from UFO fuel. It actually compares unfavorably to Scientology! ---
**Author:** ![newinitiation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@newinitiation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newinitiation)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/852 "2013-10-04T07:35:13Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > I am not missing the point, you are. I created an example of a a hoax that would be so obvious that even someone as credulous as you appear to be would recognize it as such. > > Then I showed the parallel way in which **mystic7** ’s wierd claim mirrored the obviously false example that I had provided, in which anachronisms demonstrate their falseness in each case. (That is known as an analogy.) Well this is a very bad example you’ve given and I’ll explain why. When an ancient text, in this case the TJ scrolls preserved in resin for 2000 years, was discovered in a tomb [THE TOMB OF JOSEPH OF ARIMATHEA](http://www.tjresearch.info/tombsite.htm) by Billy Meier and ex-priest Isa Rashid back in 1963, the ancient text written on papyrus by Judas Iscariot [The Author of the Talmud of Jmmanuel](http://www.tjresearch.info/tjauthor.htm) was translated by Isa and all 36 chapters of it. Now before Isa Rashid was assassinated, he managed to send Billy the full 36 chapters of TJ translated from Aramaic to German [The TJ's Genuineness](http://www.tjresearch.info/genuine.htm) from 1963 to 1970. Billy was just the editor not the original author of this text. Now what has this got to do with the anachronistic element concerning the letter “J” you seem to have a problem with, well everything, now listen. The German version of the TJ was translated into English so you are going from Old Aramaic used 2000 years ago from the scrolls to modern German and then from modern German edited by Billy with the additional consideration of the all important code and the preservation of Old German terms from the original Lyrian language and then from there to the various versions in modern English. So its not wonder why you see the anachronistic elements of the TJ. But seriously have you read this book or are you simply making your case and argument based solely on the letter “J”? > [@tomndebb](#): > > The problem is that **mystic7** explicitly claimed that the person to which Judaism and Christianity refer as “Immanuel” was “really” “Jmmanuel.” However, if the original language was Hebrew, there is no letter “ **J** ”. So the “translator” made up something that was not true. If the original language was Greek, there is no letter “J”. So the “translator” made up something that was not true. If the original language was Latin, there would have been no letter “J” 2,000 years ago. > The history of letters are known. Claiming that a name, (that looks suspiciously like a name that is already known to everyone), was “really” a different name that was spelled with letters that did not exist is nonsense. It is not as though J had some secret history. It was simply a change to the letter I when it was used as a consonant. That is why the J in German indicates that sound that the letter Y represents in English, today. Adopted into French, the letter J was used to represent the sound of a soft “G”. In Spanish, it was used to represent a rough breathed sound. In every case, however, it was _initially_ used on words that began, in Latin, with an I. There was no place for a J in Hebrew or Greek, so “translating” some alleged “Lyrian” letter to that letter makes no sense in the context of 2,000 years ago. Its Aramaic and consider the words Aramaism OK [http://www.tjresearch.info/genuine.htm](http://www.tjresearch.info/genuine.htm) > [@tomndebb](#): > > Pretending that JHWH (while insisting on the initial J), was some sort of wise person whose name was spelled with a **J** makes no sense because we already know that YHWH is simply the English transliteration of the Hebrew name that begins with yodh and that JHWH is simply the German equivalent, given the difference in the use of J in German. > > Yet, in Hebrew we find references to YHWH and to Immanuel that predate **mystic7** ’s claim. We also find similar references to Immanuel in Greek prior to **mystic7** ’s claim. Yet, **mystic7** implies that the **J** spelling (that could only have originated 550 years ago, is the original from which the words found in Hebrew and Greek were taken or copied or corrupted. JHWH is not a Greek term nor a Hebrew Explanation is given here [http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy\_Meier/Contact\_Report\_238](http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/Contact_Report_238) > [@tomndebb](#): > > If you cannot recognize the absurdity of mystic7’s claim from that, then you are either not competent to evualate any of the things that have been proposed in this thread or you don’t care about facts and evidence and are simply here to peddle your odd beliefs, regardless of facts or in spite of truth. I am most certainly interested in facts and truth but the question is, are you? How can you simply base your premise for your argument without the knowledge of old Aramaic and the history of this language which existed during Jmmanuel’s time. What you are essentially engaged in is a sloppy and quite lazy form of intellectualism. All this without ever having read the book Talmud of Jmmanuel, for crying out loud! > [@tomndebb](#): > > If your texts proposed that Alexander invaded Persia driving an M1A2 Abrams tank, would you expect us to believe it because it was in your texts? Recognizing that certain events cannot happen before they actually occurred is a basic point of awareness and logic. Look you are comparing apples for oranges here. ---
**Author:** ![newinitiation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@newinitiation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newinitiation)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/853 "2013-10-04T07:38:36Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > I’m certainly willing to wait, too. But why will it take 16 years? Why not tomorrow? Because by 2029 we humans will accept the Plejaren offer of assistance through either Billy or FIGU when shit has hit the fan through unbelievable environmental and natural disasters and catastrophes which would’ve come to pass by then as foretold by Billy, the Plejaren & Fed members and the prophecies given by 6 previous prophets ---
**Author:** ![newinitiation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@newinitiation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newinitiation)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 7:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/854 "2013-10-04T07:40:39Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > My problem, in addition to the anachronistic “J,” is the part about “a parchment preserved in a resin for nearly 2000 years.” Where is this document now? Who has seen it? Who has been allowed to analyze fragments of the resin? If a nice visiting bloke from UCLA wanted to look at it, where would he go? Do you have any photographs we can see here online? Look it was destroyed by the Mossad during an assassination attempt on Isa Rashid and his family OK? ---
**Author:** ![newinitiation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@newinitiation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newinitiation)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/855 "2013-10-04T07:43:05Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > You didn’t get a _micro-sniff_ of bullshit from “Those are fake photos, sure, but I took real photos of aliens and dinosaurs, then the Men in Black swapped the fake photos for my real ones, and I didn’t notice. No, I don’t have the real photos anymore.” ? > > Also, surely you realize that there’s no one who considers themselves credulous? We all think we’re skeptical and discerning. Turns out, some of us are wrong, but it’s not something you can self-diagnose. Look I sniffed the truth and not the bullshit lump of turd people smear it with. The truth therefore needs no excuse ---
**Author:** ![newinitiation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@newinitiation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newinitiation)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/856 "2013-10-04T07:46:43Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > And they told him that the “correct” spelling of a name that was used in [Hebrew](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebrew_alphabet) around the year 736 B.C.E. used the Latin/English letter “J” at a time when no such letter appeared in the [Latin alphabet](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_alphabet). > > Sorry. The ETs lied. I would not trust them on any other point if they have to lie about something as simple as a name. > > Even assuming there ever was a “Lyrian” language, :rolleyes: , these ETs are claiming that the “correct” translation of a 2,000 year old document, (thus dated around 30 to 25 B.C.E.), with the “true” origin of the names Immanuel and YHWH, (the first had been in Hebrew since, at latest, 736 B.C.E. and the second was much older than that), actually should be translated with a character that was not introduced to Latin–a completely different language that changed the spelling of Immanuel to Emmanuel–until the end of the fifteenth century C.E. > So how, according to these mendacious ETs, did the Hebrew people come to use those names more than 700 years previous to their talmud? > > This is why we call bullshit on the alleged Talmud Jmmanuel. It is something that some twit who did not understand language, chronology, or history held up as a new revelation, getting basic information wrong. (And, of course, now it is gone–how _conveenient_.) > I suppose that it might be amusing to compare the Talmud Jmmanuel to the actual Gospel of Matthew, (which was a couple of hundred years old before your false date of 325), but I suspect that I would simply find more of the same errors throughout it. Hey like I had explained above, the bullshit Latin comparisons is whats making you go around in perpetual circles. Get off that merry-go-round and broaden your argument to reflect the reality of what you are trying to uncover. Aramaic, got it! ---
**Author:** ![newinitiation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@newinitiation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newinitiation)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 7:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/857 "2013-10-04T07:48:45Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Sorry. This is silly. **mystic7** is promoting this belief in a name “Jmmanuel” and you tell us that the pronunciation is identical to that of the real name Immanuel, but for some reason, the spelling has to include a letter that did not exist for another 1500 years. > > Do you folks ever even look at what you post? Once again you are making another one of your favorite illogical arguments I look at mine and everybody else’s post but do you? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 7:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/858 "2013-10-04T07:53:44Z")
There’s no J in Aramaic. ---
**Author:** ![newinitiation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@newinitiation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newinitiation)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 7:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/859 "2013-10-04T07:59:58Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Why are you introducing the idea of an illegal download? > > We can find on-line versions of multiple translations of the bible at [www.biblegateway.com](http://www.biblegateway.com). Now, there are also translations of the bible that are copyright protected that are not on that web site, so no sinister motives are ascribed to keeping your book out of the public domain. However, there is no reason for you to imply that anyone in this thread was looking for an illegal copy. If you folks are trying to spread your “truth,” it would seem that getting a free copy out to the world would be a good idea. > Accusations (or implications) that other posters are being dishonest are not appropriate. Hey shitload of other materials is available for free on various websites with dedicated supporters chipping in their time to translate the materials from German to English. This includes the contact notes, articles, special bulletins, bulletins, spiritual teachings, photos, videos, sound recordings, articles by others, evidence materials, interviews, prophecies and predictions, preliminary translations, and more yet the fucking piss lazy skeptics are generously lead to the water with the best of intentions in the world yet these fucking donkeys won’t drink the fucking water even if it saves them their life. So who the fuck is the ones with the problem here. If people wanted to know more, then all they’d simply have to do is to read what is abundantly available free of charge to their hearts content on these websites I 've been sharing the links to since at least the start of page 2 of this thread. ---
**Author:** ![newinitiation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@newinitiation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newinitiation)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 8:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/860 "2013-10-04T08:08:58Z")
> [@Smeghead](#): > > So, if I understand all this correctly, the aliens are hiding evidence and making sure that their pictures look an awful lot like garbage can lids and replacing themselves with 70s models in order to maintain plausible deniability, because they’re worried that humanity wouldn’t be able to cope with knowledge of their existence. Is that basically right? > > If that’s true, and these superior beings that you so admire and look up to are taking this strategy, why are you three actively working against them by fighting so hard to convince other people that they actually exist? Surely the aliens know best, right? I mean, basically, you three are traitors to the cause by your efforts to prove to us unprepared humans that they do exist, which is directly against their express will. > > Further, if you admit that the evidences are deliberately designed to be plausible deniable, then why do you find it so hard to believe when people don’t buy into them? I mean, surely these all-powerful supreme beings are really really good at making the evidence look cheap and stupid, so why are you shocked when they have succeeded at failing to convince everyone? This is a poor argument The era of the 70’s in which they’ve started the official contact with Billy is a totally different world to the one we are living in this 21st century. I am not hear to convince anyone but to tell it like it is from the point of the truth of the Meier case. Sure I get passionate about it, but I’ve never said that I was a highly evolved extraterrestrial being nor pretend that I was an evolved human being. Now since in this supposed age of reason and enlightenment, there are still people who vehemently deny Billy Meier’s contact case and label it a fraud, its no wonder why the ETs have used this semi-plausible deniability factor for those very reasons that even if our era of technological advancement has made leaps and bounds, I am afraid people’s heads haven’t followed suit. It is definitely the case that people can’t handle the truth [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000.md?page=42) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000.md?page=44)