# Billy Meier, whats the verdict? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 16, 2013, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000 "2013-09-16T20:03:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 44
**Author:** ![newinitiation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@newinitiation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newinitiation)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 8:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/861 "2013-10-04T08:19:28Z")
> [@DrFidelius](#): > > They will not distribute copies or translations of the most spiritually important document uncovered in the past 1500 years to souls who need it because they want to maintain a profit? And you consider these beings to be benevolent? > > Please reconsider who you are placing your faith in. It is more in the nature of a devil than an angel to taunt Man with images deliberately designed to look false, or with the promise of TRUTH if paid for. > > Or am I misunderstanding who the “creator” of this work is? If Billy “made it up” then he has full rights to any profit from it. If he is simply acting as the conduit for ancient wisdom then it is his duty to humanity to release it freely to all. Fuck this lame argument about everything needed to be handed down on a silver platter. Don’t you get, nothing is free in this world and there is always a price to pay for everything. The act of purchasing and then rewarding someone for their hard work, especially when every labour is worth its just compensation, is a spiritual act in itself for those who realise it for truly for those that recognise this fact would also recognise that everything should be worked for with effort and hard work. You can see the abundant consequences of the attitude that everything should be free in this world just by looking at the government welfare system where those that most needed are nudged out by those that least do through fraudulent claims but not only that, it fosters laziness and perpetuate the disgusting attitude people harbour who think they are owed something or entitled to something who instead should get their arses off their backside and work for what they earn ---
**Author:** ![newinitiation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@newinitiation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newinitiation)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 8:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/862 "2013-10-04T08:23:26Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > A space telescope, ho-hum. What, actually, is the prediction?Until what?When will that happen? I’m making out my long-term calendar. That site is incomprehensible – what’s the actual date? > > When? Are you sure it’s not referring to the one a century ago?When? > When? “May” run into millions? So _one_ death would make this an incredibly accurate prediction from a soothsayer of monumental proportions? Impressive! > > What good is a prediction without a date? I can predict gloom, doom and rumors of boom, but so can everyone else. Why should we listen to anyone who merely invents fantasies that can never be seen? Think before 2029 when everything will come to pass You need not wait long but in the mean time you should prepare for it in advance by first moving out of coastal areas like New York or Florida ---
**Author:** ![newinitiation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@newinitiation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newinitiation)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 8:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/863 "2013-10-04T08:33:47Z")
> [@mystic7](#): > > If you Google four winds Talmud Jmmanuel you get a link to an unofficially PDF file of the TJ. This apparently is an early edition which was considered to have errors. Mystic7 can I just respectfully say that, what you as a supporter of Billy, have done is made a mistake, even with the best of intentions by offering that link because not only is that copy illegal and outdated but the current TJ is going through a re-edit and a new edition will be available in the not too distant future with corrections. You have just deprived Billy and FIGU of their just compensation but beyond the monetary reasons which is secondary, we need to provide people the right to exercise their honesty and integrity by letting them search for their own answers to questions even through purchasing a book to get there otherwise they are deprived of the opportunity to learn the spiritual way which is what the teachings are all about. Hopefully people will purchase a legitimate copy afterwards if they are sincere and honest in their dealings ---
**Author:** ![newinitiation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@newinitiation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newinitiation)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 8:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/864 "2013-10-04T08:35:22Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Well, that’s a pretty safe prophecy if no timeline is given. Plenty of scientists would agree that at some point in the future there’ll be severe earthquake damage in that region. > > It’d be a little more impressive if, say, the prophecies accurately called for another big one along the New Madrid fault in 2014. > > But prophecies have to be kept as vague as possible for plausible deniability (plus there have to be lots of them so that _something_ can be claimed to have come true eventually. > > I’m sticking to Tampa Bay over the Red Sox and Detroit over Oakland.\* > > \*Billy Meier has probably put all his money on the White Sox. Before 2029 ---
**Author:** ![newinitiation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@newinitiation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newinitiation)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 8:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/865 "2013-10-04T08:36:37Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > But by doing so badly, they actually undermine the ostensible argument. (We all know that certain Creationists are actually Evolutionist shills, arguing so badly that they make Evilution look good. See? Everything actually promotes its opposite…) > > Is there any more data on this parchment preserved in resin? I’d really like to know where it is at this time, and who discovered it, and where. If we’re just talking Joseph Smith and gold plates, then, ah, never mind, not interested. Find out for yourself [http://www.tjresearch.info/discovery.htm](http://www.tjresearch.info/discovery.htm) ---
**Author:** ![newinitiation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@newinitiation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newinitiation)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 8:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/866 "2013-10-04T08:37:57Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > As I understand it, the original was destroyed in a Mossad attack. The man who studied and translated the manuscript (something Rashid) was killed. But, by that time Rashid had already sent a partial German translation to Billy. Yes correct Doc 20% or 36 chapters from totality of it. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 10:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/867 "2013-10-04T10:02:57Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > I’m certainly willing to wait, too. But why will it take 16 years? Why not tomorrow? Well, I’ve got a busy weekend planned and I promised the TimeCube guy I’d believe his nonsense first before I believed anyone else’s. > [@newinitiation](#): > > Just to shave off several years or two for your sake, one of prophecies deals with a large space based telescope which will be called the planet seeker in the year 2025. > > So you’ve got 12 years So…there’s going to be a large space-based telescope that seeks out planets? Don’t we already have a bunch of those? > [@](#): > > The Henoch prophecies also has the Vatican being completely destroyed by the eruption of Mt Vesuvius and an earthquake and the pope will no longer reside in Rome as a result. > > [The Future Of Mankind - A Billy Meier Wiki - Contact Report 215](http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/Contact_Report_215) > > So watch out for that as well. Is it just the Vatican, or the rest of Rome too? Because if Vesuvius blows and only takes out the Vatican, I’ll believe right then and there. > [@](#): > > Not to be outdone, there is also the La Palma’s Cumbre Vieja volcano which will crumble to the sea calling a mega tsunami that wipes off the chain of Islands in the Canary Islands but also devastate much of the east coast of USA including New York and Washington The possibility of that happening in the next thirty years or so was discussed in the news ages ago. While the odds are long they’re not impossible and both the causes and the effects are predictable (like Yellowstone blowing up, another known potential disaster). Hell, I’m probably at direct risk from the Canary tsunami. Still not buying your theory. > [@](#): > > Depending on the severity the death toll from this tsunami may run into millions. Right. So a death toll somewhere between zero and “millions”. Uncanny! ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 10:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/868 "2013-10-04T10:04:23Z")
> [@newinitiation](#): > > Fuck this lame argument about everything needed to be handed down on a silver platter. > > Don’t you get, nothing is free in this world and there is always a price to pay for everything. > > The act of purchasing and then rewarding someone for their hard work, especially when every labour is worth its just compensation, is a spiritual act in itself for those who realise it for truly for those that recognise this fact would also recognise that everything should be worked for with effort and hard work. > > You can see the abundant consequences of the attitude that everything should be free in this world just by looking at the government welfare system where those that most needed are nudged out by those that least do through fraudulent claims but not only that, it fosters laziness and perpetuate the disgusting attitude people harbour who think they are owed something or entitled to something who instead should get their arses off their backside and work for what they earn It is not an “argument” from me but rather a comment on the morality of Billy’s alien overlords. I am following what you are telling us about them, their motivations and the results of their actions. I must conclude that they are evil, and wish harm upon the majority of Mankind through their deliberately deceitful manipulations, and anyone trying to support their agenda must be stopped while there is still time. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/869 "2013-10-04T12:11:07Z")
> [@newinitiation](#): > > Look I sniffed the truth and not the bullshit lump of turd people smear it with. > The truth therefore needs no excuse So, you consider the Meier case to be the truth, and thus don’t apply any skeptical inquiry to the _extremely_ suspicous details, like evidence that conveniently disappears, spaceships made with trash can lids, or laughable excuses given for falsified evidence. You’re a True Believer. Which is fine, whatever floats your boat…but any opinions you hold of yourself as some kind of hyper-skeptic are laughable when you refuse to apply skepticism. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/870 "2013-10-04T12:54:45Z")
> [@newinitiation](#): > > Before 2029 Be sure to post here when it happens, okay? ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/871 "2013-10-04T14:26:50Z")
> [@newinitiation](#): > > Mystic7 can I just respectfully say that, what you as a supporter of Billy, have done is made a mistake, even with the best of intentions by offering that link because not only is that copy illegal and outdated but the current TJ is going through a re-edit and a new edition will be available in the not too distant future with corrections. > > You have just deprived Billy and FIGU of their just compensation but beyond the monetary reasons which is secondary, we need to provide people the right to exercise their honesty and integrity by letting them search for their own answers to questions even through purchasing a book to get there otherwise they are deprived of the opportunity to learn the spiritual way which is what the teachings are all about. > > Hopefully people will purchase a legitimate copy afterwards if they are sincere and honest in their dealings Oooh, a schism. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/872 "2013-10-04T14:39:51Z")
Mt. Vesuvius is going to destroy Vatican City? It’s about 150 miles away! ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/873 "2013-10-04T14:47:40Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Mt. Vesuvius is going to destroy Vatican City? It’s about 150 miles away! I know. That’s why I’m going to convert if it takes out the Vatican while leaving the rest of Rome intact. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/874 "2013-10-04T14:52:07Z")
How large an explosion would it take for a volcano to destroy a city 150 miles away? ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/875 "2013-10-04T15:22:42Z")
> [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](#): > > Oooh, a schism. Well, I am now disgusted and even more firmly convinced that these “aliens” are actually demons in disguise. They have acolytes who see the world-shattering revelation of a new book of scripture as little more than a money making scheme. Salvation is only for those who PAY for it? What kind of perversion of spirituality is that? I believe that is the very definition of the sin of simony. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/876 "2013-10-04T15:24:19Z")
> [@newinitiation](#): > > The German version of the TJ was translated into English so you are going from Old Aramaic used 2000 years ago from the scrolls to modern German and then from modern German edited by Billy with the additional consideration of the all important code and the preservation of Old German terms from the original Lyrian language and then from there to the various versions in modern English. > > So its not wonder why you see the anachronistic elements of the TJ. So, are you claiming that the “J” is simply a remnant of the translation to German where the “J” would replace the letter _yodh_ in Hebrew and _yudh_ in Aramaic that showed up in the Greek as _iota_ or _eta_? (Of course, that is still silly, since the original Hebrew that preceded the Talmud Jmmanuel by over five hundred years, spelled the name with an initial _ayin_, not a _yodh_.) > [@newinitiation](#): > > But seriously have you read this book or are you simply making your case and argument based solely on the letter “J”? Let’s look at **mystic7** ’s original post that brought me into this thread: > [@mystic7](#): > > Jmmamuel is spelled with a J- the spelling is based on ancient Lyrian. Jmmanuel was the son of an Jschwjsch pronounced “ishwish”-- translated 'king or master of wisdom. Jschwjsch is abbreviated JHWH. Jmmanuel means something like "the one with JHWH knowledge. He explicitly claimed that the spelling required a “J” in spite of the fact that the letter J (a Latin character) does not appear in Aramaic (or Hebrew or the Latin of the first century). If the claims for this wondrous book are based on assertions that are obviously factually wrong, there is little reason to go further. > [@newinitiation](#): > > Its Aramaic and consider the words Aramaism OK > > [The TJ's Genuineness](http://www.tjresearch.info/genuine.htm) Nonsense. There is nothing in that link that explains why anyone would translate any word or name into English, (or even German), using a character that does not exist in the language from which it was allegedly translated. (There are a lot of truly stupid claims that the “New Age Hoaxer” would not be able to recognize Aramaic expressions, as if being a “New Age” believer prevented anyone from studying Aramaic–a language that is well documented in numerous studies and taught in numerous classes.) However, nothing in that document explains why **mystic7** would insist that the name Jmmanuel would need to be spelled with a J when neither the J nor any cognate to J appears in Aramaic. If the claim is that the name must begin with a non-existent letter, then I judge the claim false. (Had **mystic7** simply said we follow the German transliteration of “J” in place of “I” in order to distinguish our great teacher from anyone else, it would have still been a stupid claim, since “J”, even in German, is not a valid transliteration of the Hebrew _ayin_ or its Aramaic cognate, but it would have, at least been logical, though wrong. By insisting on an imaginary letter, he destroys all credibility.) And you are really not helping your case with this nonsense: > [@newinitiation](#): > > JHWH is not a Greek term nor a Hebrew > > Explanation is given here > > [The Future Of Mankind - A Billy Meier Wiki - Contact Report 238](http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/Contact_Report_238) > [@](#): > > From 693: “Ischwisch” [What is an JHWH?]: Strictly human title for a material male human being that has reached the level of king of Wisdom. > These human beings live in the last stages of human-material existence before changing over in half-spiritual forms. > The male version means: JHWH (phonetic = Ischwsch) > JHWHs are human beings like everybody else, but much higher in consciousness and spiritual development then -average- human beings. > A JHWH can never be compared to Creation itself, because Creation is immeasurably higher then any other life-form in its universe. > Other names for JHWH: TOTH, GO(O)D, GOTT, HAVA, TELI, DIEU, TEOS, JHVH, AGAD, BOOG, DEOS, DEUS, etc, etc > Jehova was not a JHWH in the common sense, but a JHFH, which means king of falsehood, malice Nearly very line in this text is made up. First, we start off with the ever present (in the text) non-existent (in the real world) “J” in the name or title. In fact, JHWH is nothing more than the German rendering of the Hebrew _yodh he waw he_. It could not be an English rendering of anything in Aramaic, because, as noted, there is no cognate to “J” in that language. Then there is the claim that JHWH is the name used for God in multiple other languages. In German, that would make sense in that most people would identify God with the divinity who is identified by the Hebrew (transliterated to English) YHWH (or German) JHWH. However, the text then goes on to make the utterly stupid claim that this divinity is different from Jehova (itself a misspelling of Jehovah: the loss of the final H is rare, but, interestingly, more frequent in some Germanic languages). In reality, the name Jehovah is nothing more than a poor translation of _yodh he waw he_\* with vowels inserted to make it easier to pronounce. The spelling has been around for hundreds of years, but the fact that it was simply a poor attempt at adding vowels to the Hebrew word has been known for about as long. Pretending that Jehova[sic] is some sort of “king of falsehood” when every literate person interested in the topic is aware that it was nothing but a failed spelling error is dumb. In particular, attacking a misspelled version of the name Jehovah indicates a serious failure of scholarship. \*(_Depending on the language, the Hebrew waw is sometimes rendered as vav._) I am not even sure how this “information” about “Jehova” came to light, since it could not have appeared in the Talmud Jmmanuel. > [@newinitiation](#): > > I am most certainly interested in facts and truth but the question is, are you? > How can you simply base your premise for your argument without the knowledge of old Aramaic and the history of this language which existed during Jmmanuel’s time. I seem to have a lot more knowledge of old Aramaic than you or **mystic7** do. > [@newinitiation](#): > > What you are essentially engaged in is a sloppy and quite lazy form of intellectualism. > All this without ever having read the book Talmud of Jmmanuel, for crying out loud! There is nothing sloppy in what I have posted. I am simply noting that I am being urged to read one more quack “discovered text” because it carries so much “Truth,” but that the arguments for me to read it are filled with obvious and easily avoided errors. When someone wanders up and insists that they have found some Great Truth in a text and insists that clearly obvious errors (getting wrong the names of both their wondrous teacher and of God), I find no reason to waste time reading such a silly fraud. (I did glance at the nonsense that purported to “prove” that the Gospel of Matthew was “taken” from the Talmud Jmmanuel. I could not finish fighting my way through the first section because there were so many invented claims and outright errors.) Meiers’s Jmmanuel is no more credible (or interesting) than Jane Roberts’s Seth. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/877 "2013-10-04T15:28:49Z")
When Mt. Vesuvius blew it killed so many people not because the blast radius was so large(only about a 21 mile kill zone), but because too many people lived too close to it. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/878 "2013-10-04T15:29:00Z")
> [@newinitiation](#): > > . . . yet the fucking piss lazy skeptics are generously lead to the water with the best of intentions in the world yet these fucking donkeys won’t drink the fucking water even if it saves them their life. > > So who the fuck is the ones with the problem here. You are if you ever again post direct insults to other posters on this message board. You were asked a polite question whether there was an on-line copy of the text. You responded with a hostile accusation of dishonesty. Now, you are launching direct insults at other posters on this thread in direct violation of the rules. Do not do this again. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/879 "2013-10-04T15:34:02Z")
> [@newinitiation](#): > > Hey like I had explained above, the bullshit Latin comparisons is whats making you go around in perpetual circles. > > Get off that merry-go-round and broaden your argument to reflect the reality of what you are trying to uncover. > > Aramaic, got it! What character in Aramaic was translated as a “J”? ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/880 "2013-10-04T16:26:55Z")
I am in Dunkin Donuts. I have finished my coolata\* and downloaded the PDF. I went through a page or two and already have questions. I thought that Billy was led to the hiding place of the parchment by aliens. But the introduction here says he stumbled on it by chance. This seems like a contradiction. My other question deals with the many illustrations of Jesus on the opening page. Why do they all depict him as peach-colored with light hair and eyes? Jesus would almost certainly had Middle Eastern features such as very dark, extremely curly hair, olive skin and brown eyes. IMO The most accurate image of Jesus found in a film is when Jeff Goldblum portrays him in The Favor, The Watch And The Very Big Fish. BTW I complain about this often. I remember being tremendously pleased when my Hebrew school put up a calendar of Biblical scenes that depicted Moses, Jacob, and the rest as black haired, dark skinned men in robes and turbans. - The coolatta was a rare disappointment. I don’t think they used enough syrup. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000.md?page=43) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000.md?page=45)