# Billy Meier, whats the verdict? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 16, 2013, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000 "2013-09-16T20:03:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 47
**Author:** ![newinitiation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@newinitiation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newinitiation)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2013, 9:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/921 "2013-10-05T09:21:36Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > What due dilligence did you perform on the MiB-photo-switch story? Or the aliens-sent-telepathic-suggestions-of-a-starship-design-but-it-was-used-for-a-trash-can-lid-instead story? > > Also, you wrote, of the Talmud: > > But in contact report #[007](http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/Contact_Report_007), it says: > > That is, the document was burned by happenstance during an Israeli military operation in Lebanon, unrelated to the Mossad or assassination. Did you have the story wrong, or has it been changed since? The fact that there is ample amount of FOI declassified government documents clearly indicating that MIB’s exists and that throughout the decades, these people were responsible for suppressing information related to UFO sightings. The disclosure project headed by Dr Steven Greer has impeccably credentialed military eyewitnesses and the people who had been the MIB itself having given their own testimony against threat of incarceration to bravely admit that they were involved in such black operations. [http://www.disclosureproject.org/](http://www.disclosureproject.org/) ---
**Author:** ![newinitiation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@newinitiation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newinitiation)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2013, 9:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/922 "2013-10-05T09:25:05Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Got any predictions that have already happened(prediction must have been made public before the event predicted, of course), or any that will be happening anytime soon? No Billy doesn’t give exact dates due to the enormous danger this poses as people learning of the impending future will try to change it or to even profit from it financially leading to unintended consequences. See here if you want to know what the future has in store for us > **[Prophecies & Predictions](http://www.theyfly.com/prophecies-predictions)** > > The Henoch Prophecies from the Billy Meier Contacts So many of the prophecies and predictions written by, Swiss UFO contactee Billy Meier, and/or given to him by the Plejaren extraterrestrial/alien human beings, have come true that we'd be wise to... ---
**Author:** ![newinitiation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@newinitiation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newinitiation)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2013, 9:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/923 "2013-10-05T09:31:03Z")
> [@Smeghead](#): > > It wasn’t an argument, it was a question - why are you, here, now, in this thread, actively working against the plan of the superior aliens? > > It is a question that you completely failed to answer, unsurprisingly. > > Eh, whatever. I’m officially bored with this thread. There’s only so much gibberish I can handle. I’ve been glazing over most of the posts here for days now. I am not actively working against the plan. The plan is to disseminate the truth, not bury the fucking thing. Therefore it is righteous and accords with the plan to state the truth to the best of my abilities even if I may not get it 100% correct. This is why I urge you all to hear it from the horses mouth rather than be;ieve what I have to say. Its incumbent upon you all to take responsibility for your own minds and to ensure that your fanaticism and dogmatic obsessions fueled by misinformation and disinformation to attack the Meier case to be brought under control and be honestly assessed with reason ---
**Author:** ![newinitiation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@newinitiation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newinitiation)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2013, 9:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/924 "2013-10-05T09:34:40Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > So, are you claiming that the “J” is simply a remnant of the translation to German where the “J” would replace the letter _yodh_ in Hebrew and _yudh_ in Aramaic that showed up in the Greek as _iota_ or _eta_? (Of course, that is still silly, since the original Hebrew that preceded the Talmud Jmmanuel by over five hundred years, spelled the name with an initial _ayin_, not a _yodh_.) > > Let’s look at **mystic7** ’s original post that brought me into this thread: He explicitly claimed that the spelling required a “J” in spite of the fact that the letter J (a Latin character) does not appear in Aramaic (or Hebrew or the Latin of the first century). If the claims for this wondrous book are based on assertions that are obviously factually wrong, there is little reason to go further. > > Nonsense. There is nothing in that link that explains why anyone would translate any word or name into English, (or even German), using a character that does not exist in the language from which it was allegedly translated. (There are a lot of truly stupid claims that the “New Age Hoaxer” would not be able to recognize Aramaic expressions, as if being a “New Age” believer prevented anyone from studying Aramaic–a language that is well documented in numerous studies and taught in numerous classes.) However, nothing in that document explains why **mystic7** would insist that the name Jmmanuel would need to be spelled with a J when neither the J nor any cognate to J appears in Aramaic. If the claim is that the name must begin with a non-existent letter, then I judge the claim false. > (Had **mystic7** simply said we follow the German transliteration of “J” in place of “I” in order to distinguish our great teacher from anyone else, it would have still been a stupid claim, since “J”, even in German, is not a valid transliteration of the Hebrew _ayin_ or its Aramaic cognate, but it would have, at least been logical, though wrong. By insisting on an imaginary letter, he destroys all credibility.) > > And you are really not helping your case with this nonsense: > Nearly very line in this text is made up. > First, we start off with the ever present (in the text) non-existent (in the real world) “J” in the name or title. > In fact, JHWH is nothing more than the German rendering of the Hebrew _yodh he waw he_. It could not be an English rendering of anything in Aramaic, because, as noted, there is no cognate to “J” in that language. > Then there is the claim that JHWH is the name used for God in multiple other languages. In German, that would make sense in that most people would identify God with the divinity who is identified by the Hebrew (transliterated to English) YHWH (or German) JHWH. However, the text then goes on to make the utterly stupid claim that this divinity is different from Jehova (itself a misspelling of Jehovah: the loss of the final H is rare, but, interestingly, more frequent in some Germanic languages). In reality, the name Jehovah is nothing more than a poor translation of _yodh he waw he_\* with vowels inserted to make it easier to pronounce. The spelling has been around for hundreds of years, but the fact that it was simply a poor attempt at adding vowels to the Hebrew word has been known for about as long. Pretending that Jehova[sic] is some sort of “king of falsehood” when every literate person interested in the topic is aware that it was nothing but a failed spelling error is dumb. In particular, attacking a misspelled version of the name Jehovah indicates a serious failure of scholarship. > \*(_Depending on the language, the Hebrew waw is sometimes rendered as vav._) > > I am not even sure how this “information” about “Jehova” came to light, since it could not have appeared in the Talmud Jmmanuel. > > I seem to have a lot more knowledge of old Aramaic than you or **mystic7** do. > There is nothing sloppy in what I have posted. I am simply noting that I am being urged to read one more quack “discovered text” because it carries so much “Truth,” but that the arguments for me to read it are filled with obvious and easily avoided errors. > When someone wanders up and insists that they have found some Great Truth in a text and insists that clearly obvious errors (getting wrong the names of both their wondrous teacher and of God), I find no reason to waste time reading such a silly fraud. (I did glance at the nonsense that purported to “prove” that the Gospel of Matthew was “taken” from the Talmud Jmmanuel. I could not finish fighting my way through the first section because there were so many invented claims and outright errors.) > Meiers’s Jmmanuel is no more credible (or interesting) than Jane Roberts’s Seth. Can’t you see the irrationality of going against something that which you know nothing about What other than a sense of know-it-allism and egotism could someone engage in such assault beyond common reason and sense to attack something that which he knows nothing about. How irrational is that ---
**Author:** ![newinitiation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@newinitiation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newinitiation)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2013, 9:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/925 "2013-10-05T09:40:20Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > In Contact Report [# 482](http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/Contact_Report_482), the aliens told Billy that making predictions was ineffective, and they were going to stop: > > So, do predictions like this telescope business pre-date this contact, or did the policy change back at some point? The Planet Seeker [http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy\_Meier/Contact\_Report\_224](http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/Contact_Report_224) Contact Reports Volume: 5 Page number(s): 425-437 Date/time of contact: Thurday, July 7th, 1988, 5:19AM Translator(s): Dyson Devine and Vivienne Legg; Benjamin Stevens Date of original translation: December 2005 (Dyson and Vivienne); Wednesday, June 23, 2010 (Ben) Corrections and improvements made: N/A Contact person: Quetzal Billy Billy We’ve spoken already once about this, that the Earthlings, in addition to the Hubble space telescope, will send another into the sky that’s much bigger. Wir sprachen schon mal darüber, dass die Erdlinge nebst dem Hubble-Weltraum-teleskop noch eines in den Himmel schicken wollen, das viel grösser sei. Can you explain something more about that? Kannst du da noch etwas dazu erklären? Quetzal Quetzal 1. Always presuming that the concerned Terrestrial technology develops further in this context, and the still coming plans actually would be realised, then, in about the year 2025, a gigantic laser space telescope, made of many parts, will be brought into a stationary Earth orbit, that primarily will serve in the discovery of planets in foreign solar systems, for which reason it will also be named The Planet Seeker. 2. Immer vorausgesetzt, dass sich die diesbezügliche irdische Technik im gegebenen Rahmen weiterentwickelt und die noch kommenden Pläne tatsächlich verwirklicht werden, dann wird ca. im Jahre 2025 ein riesenhaftes und mehrteiliges Laser-Weltraumteleskop in eine stationäre Erdumlaufbahn gebracht, das hauptsächlich zur Auffindung von Planeten in fremden Sonnensystemen dienen soll, weshalb es dann auch Planetensucher genannt werden wird. 3. This would be so, along with other projects of a similar type that would, however, indeed find their fulfillment earlier. 4. Dies wird so sein nebst anderen Projekten ähnlicher Art, die jedoch schon früher ihre Erfüllung finden sollen. Translator’s Notes These starlight interferometers are not to be confused with the (secret) longitudinally polarized electromagnetic interferometers largely responsible for the raging World Weatherwar. Such is the incredibly broad subject matter discussed by these two men that trying to decide what to relay first to the world of people who are unfamiliar with the German language is difficult and often bizarre. As a good example, in the short space omitted between the above two subjects, Quetzal mentions that our planet’s finite reserves of oil will be gone in 70 years (from 1987). ---
**Author:** ![newinitiation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@newinitiation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newinitiation)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2013, 9:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/926 "2013-10-05T09:42:59Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > What the hell does this supposed magma chamber have to do with a volcano 150 miles away? Everything, this is the reason why [http://theyfly.com/news2005/march05/march05.htm](http://theyfly.com/news2005/march05/march05.htm) ---
**Author:** ![newinitiation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@newinitiation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newinitiation)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2013, 9:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/927 "2013-10-05T09:45:24Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Says the dude trying to sell up a new Talmud. :rolleyes: Sell what!? I am here to share the pearls before the swine but you people are starting to trample it and are not thankful by tearing it apart. ---
**Author:** ![newinitiation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@newinitiation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newinitiation)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2013, 9:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/928 "2013-10-05T09:47:34Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Really? > > So, what are the aliens going to charge for all this cool stuff they’re going to give us? So much is available for free on websites such as > **[TheyFly.com](http://www.theyfly.com)** > > Billy Meier : The only authentic extraterrestrial contactee > **[FIGU](http://www.figu.org)** > > FIGU - Die Freie Interessengemeinschaft zu den Themen Geisteslehre, Ufologie und Überbevölkerung - und Billy Eduard Albert Meier (BEAM). [www.futureofmankind.co.uk](http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk) You just need to open your eyes ---
**Author:** ![newinitiation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@newinitiation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newinitiation)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2013, 9:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/929 "2013-10-05T09:52:15Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > OoooH! Look what I found in the last link:Imagine that. A rant against the Jews, claiming that they were never really a people, but a criminal mob, (while linking the Rom, “Gypsies,” into the same group), that “always reached their goals.” > > So, now, on top of fake UFOs and fake biblical prophecies, we have explicit anti-semitism that denies actual history and then tries to lump together two separate persecuted groups into a single criminal organization. > > I know, I am just too blind to see the obvious truth. :rolleyes: What kind of a rubbish dog shit of an explanation is this The quote identifies the Israelites and the habraon which is mutually exclusive to the Jews ---
**Author:** ![newinitiation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@newinitiation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newinitiation)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2013, 9:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/930 "2013-10-05T09:55:18Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Well, if you would just READ the [various links](http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/Contact_Report_136), you would discover that they already [del]covered their asses[/del] addressed that issue:Of course, the rest of that article reads like a bad conglomeration of Jack Chick and the Moody Bible Institute, so I am not yet persuaded. > > The article also makes the following “observation”: > > So, we see that they are already well into the mode of “correcting” things that they got wrong the first time. (This is especially amusing in light of the claim made on their Talmud Jmmanuel vs Matthew comparison page that no hoaxer would ever go back and correct part of his hoax if it were discovered to be in error. I guess they never read Irving Wallace’s The Word.) Geezz are you perfect!? Do you get every God damn thing right!? There will obvious be translation errors especially when most native German speakers don’t even know high German. The German language has also gone through many alterations and bastardization throughout the years ---
**Author:** ![newinitiation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@newinitiation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newinitiation)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2013, 9:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/931 "2013-10-05T09:58:07Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > This may (or may not) explain why the evidence doesn’t exist, but the problem I have is…the evidence doesn’t exist. > > You’ve got nothing. You don’t have any evidence to point to. So… No, not OK. Not OK in any sense. You can’t invoke evidence and then explain, “Oh, but it was destroyed.” You can’t build an argument on the foundation of “Well, you just have to trust me.” I didn’t ask anyone to trust everything I say People must do their own discerning and thinking. This is your responsibility and I can’t do it for you OK? Now the fact that 36 chapters have already been translated and then published speaks volume as it is the content of the TJ that speaks for itself and not whether the old scrolls exists or not. ---
**Author:** ![newinitiation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@newinitiation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newinitiation)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2013, 10:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/932 "2013-10-05T10:01:36Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > They found it in 1963…and didn’t show it to anybody? Didn’t take it to a university? Didn’t even take photos to show to scholars and historians? > > This is beyond the bounds of incompetence. Anyone so stupid as that cannot possibly be trusted to perform an adequate translation. Yep I mean by the mere possession of the scrolls if you were hounded by the Israeli forces and the Mossad threatening to kill you, I bet if you were in that position, you wouldn’t tell a soul. ---
**Author:** ![newinitiation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@newinitiation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newinitiation)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2013, 10:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/933 "2013-10-05T10:02:54Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > I’m sure you’re prepared to back this up with a cite. A simple reference to an article in a mainstream geology journal would be fine. For your satisfaction [http://www.geotimes.org/jan02/NN\_vesuvius.html](http://www.geotimes.org/jan02/NN_vesuvius.html) ---
**Author:** ![newinitiation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@newinitiation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newinitiation)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2013, 10:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/934 "2013-10-05T10:03:57Z")
> [@Smeghead](#): > > Those superior aliens are snarky little bastards, aren’t they? Look who’s talking ---
**Author:** ![newinitiation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@newinitiation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newinitiation)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2013, 10:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/935 "2013-10-05T10:12:29Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > See, some people are of the opinion that believing certain falsehoods/scams are inherently harmful. > > The problem is that no man is an island (sorry, Mr Donne). If a person chooses to believe something that is blatantly false, they can (as **newinitiation** has) encourage others to join in this belief or distract them. While this may not appear to be necessarily a bad thing, this diverts mental, physical, and economic resources from the pursuit of hard verifiable facts and the extension of human knowledge. Not only this, it diverts resources away from these pursuits in order to address would-be scammers. > > And that is inherently harmful, not only to society and individuals but to the greater pursuit of truth. > > Now, if people like **newinitiation** want to believe these things without causing harm, that’s fine. But that also involves not posting on the internet or proselytizing and generally just keeping those thoughts in their heads. As I said on so many occasions, I don’t believe anything, I get to KNOW by the merit of my conscious effort in thinking. When lies are propagated about Billy Meier, then I have every right to address those lies with the unequivocal truth for the sake of the truth. Just because people think that this case is a fraud doesn’t mean that it makes it so. It just means that they can’t see it for what it actually is. But for the skeptics to admit this will be impossible as they are so caught up in some belief system of denial that no amount of evidence will correct this flaw. There are classification of mental illness associated with this tendency to ‘deny’ everything that does not accord with their belief system. The dogmatism shown by the skeptics borders on fanaticism ---
**Author:** ![newinitiation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@newinitiation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newinitiation)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2013, 10:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/936 "2013-10-05T10:15:29Z")
> [@johhny](#): > > [INDENT][INDENT] > > Hello DrFidelius. I’m not connected to any people on this forum, this was a random stumbled topic. That post was inspired by stumbling upon information about the possibilities of E.T. existence and of people who talk about their encounters. Furthermore the previous post was not written in the faith of “for” or “against” Billy’s case. Without having absolute evidence or investigative tools I cannot verify or deny his claims, neither is it necessary. Partly because there is so much more E.T. related commotion around the world. It’s 2013 now, not 1970’s! 🙂 > > It’s better not to get lost in arguments - as they don’t really bring about constructive change. Fighting/arguing over beliefs, is conflict over ideology. > > If Billy IS telling the truth. Good for all, then many more will experience this in the future and our knowledge will expand! > > If Billy is NOT telling the truth. Move on as it doesn’t matter, as there are other big questions is still out there… are we alone in the Universe? > > Let people believe whatever they want to believe, as long as it doesn’t bring harm or negativity to themselves and others.[/INDENT][/INDENT] Johhny I appreciate your candor and wisdom I’ll have to add that our future survival depends on whether we take the Meier case seriously as our society is so mired in so much lies and falsehoods that to bring about the needed and much required balance, every person on this earth needs to know the truth delivered to us by Billy if there is to be a future at all for our humanity ---
**Author:** ![newinitiation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@newinitiation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newinitiation)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2013, 10:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/937 "2013-10-05T10:17:50Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Nah. They already covered their asses: No arses need no covering when we are dealing with the truth and the truth of the matter is that you can’t handle the truth. This is why you people vehemently oppose it at every turn. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2013, 10:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/938 "2013-10-05T10:23:20Z")
18 consecutive posts. A board record? ---
**Author:** ![newinitiation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@newinitiation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newinitiation)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2013, 11:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/939 "2013-10-05T11:01:13Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > 18 consecutive posts. A board record? I am showing the common courtesy of responding to people who have directly addressed me in person and other matters that I deem worth responding to. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2013, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000/940 "2013-10-05T11:51:18Z")
> [@newinitiation](#): > > What kind of a rubbish dog shit of an explanation is this > > The quote identifies the Israelites and the habraon which is mutually exclusive to the Jews Yeah! It’s the ISRAELITES that are criminal scumbags! Not Jews! How could you possibly make that mistake?! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000.md?page=46) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/billy-meier-whats-the-verdict/669000.md?page=48)