# bin Laden is dead? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 2, 2011, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bin-laden-is-dead/580436 "2011-05-02T02:46:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bin-laden-is-dead/580436/261 "2011-05-03T15:48:28Z")
The thing is that there are undoubtedly people throughout history who are far more than just another person, they are symbols and they are also evil and they have perpetrated anc commanded atrocity to be committed. Hitler (at the risk of Godwinizing myself) is certainly one, to the peole of Romania Nicolae Ceausescu was one, Stalin, Idi Amin, Pol Pot, etc. It is hard to judge these lives and their deaths using commong metrics. Logically you can lay it out, but it is lacking, IMO. So cheering the death of someon, as general principal is at best tacky, but the world is not so clean and the lines we draw are not so bright. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bin-laden-is-dead/580436/262 "2011-05-03T15:51:52Z")
> [@Capitaine\_Zombie](#): > > Darn, aint that convenient, when you see images of “The Arab street” rejoicing on september 11, apparently it is solid proof of their crazy belligerent nature. > When the US act the same way, cleaaaaarly it is “only a few of us”. I only saw a few images of that “Arab street” & realized they were a very small minority. Still, more than 3000 people died that day. I thought the louder celebrations in DC were in poor taste, but they were only celebrating the death of one particular criminal. Alas, I wish the response to 9/11 had been a manhunt–rather than starting one war that was sort of a manhunt & another war that had nothing to do with the great crime. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bin-laden-is-dead/580436/263 "2011-05-03T15:53:10Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > Please show me the mortgages that Fanny and Freddy originated, > The answer is zero. The bad mortgages were create by the banksters and sleezy mortgage companies who did not care about whether they were good or not since they had no intention of keeping them. And that was followed by Fannie and Freddie creating CDOs . Wait, that was the bankers too, wasn’t it. Well they must be responsible for AAA rating all the bad mortgages ? Nope, that was the rating companies who caused that. > The bankers are responsible for that mess. Put the blame where it belongs on the back of politicians who killed regulation and the freewheeling bankers who were looting homeowners across the world at an incredible rate. Boy, Obama is really looking good right now. No wonder the Pubbies are dragging out their old, tired arguments… ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bin-laden-is-dead/580436/264 "2011-05-03T15:54:46Z")
> [@Slithy\_Tove](#): > > I’m convinced it was done by the SAS, not the Seals; who then let the US take credit so the UK, with its larger Islamic population, would be spared the blowback. But the whole thing was ordered by the Queen to give Kate & William respite from the press and so avoid another Charles and Diana fiasco. > > Just connecting the dots. WOW… you just blew my mind. But if I can engage in a little nationalistic Ipeening, The SAS is to SADSOG what the Commodore 64 is to WATSON. It was great in its time and really laid a lot of groundwork but we’ve moved past it now. ---
**Author:** ![Capitaine\_Zombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bin-laden-is-dead/580436/265 "2011-05-03T15:59:45Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > What we do is just and right. What they do is pure evil. Do you deny that this is true? Wait. What side are you on? Are you Al quaida or something? ---
**Author:** ![MacTech](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MacTech](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacTech)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bin-laden-is-dead/580436/266 "2011-05-03T16:09:20Z")
First off, let me state that I voted for Obama, and I have no dislike for the man, that said… \ technically, Obama did not kill OBL, yes he authorized the mission, but unless he was using his Super-Secret-Ninja-Powers, he wasn’t actually the triggerman, the real credit for OBL’s death should be given to the Navy SEAL team that gave OBL a terminal case of lead poisoning Obama does deserve credit for authorizing the mission, but he didn’t kill OBL and yes, I am celebrating that scumbag’s death, may the fish eat well! ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bin-laden-is-dead/580436/267 "2011-05-03T16:10:44Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > The thing is that there are undoubtedly people throughout history who are far more than just another person, they are symbols and they are also evil and they have perpetrated anc commanded atrocity to be committed. Hitler (at the risk of Godwinizing myself) is certainly one, to the peole of Romania Nicolae Ceausescu was one, Stalin, Idi Amin, Pol Pot, etc. It is hard to judge these lives and their deaths using commong metrics. Logically you can lay it out, but it is lacking, IMO. So cheering the death of someon, as general principal is at best tacky, but the world is not so clean and the lines we draw are not so bright. I think that when someone like that dies, its more appropriate to reflect on the loss they brought to the world than to celebrate their death. I think that is worthier of our humanity. Our feelings may be widely different - and we may WANT to celebrate, but as human beings, we restrict our baser impulses to rejoice in the face of someone else’s death. Even when that person was - to our eyes - without redeeming qualities. YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bin-laden-is-dead/580436/268 "2011-05-03T16:32:44Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > This just blew up on Facebook: > > > [@](#): > > > > Let’s be clear on this: OBAMA did NOT kill Bin Laden. An American soldier, who Obama just a few weeks ago was debating on whether or not to PAY, did. Obama just happened to be the one in office when our soldiers finally found OBL and took him out. This is NOT an Obama victory, but an AMERICAN victory!! RE-POST IF YOU AGREE!!! I just responded: > [@](#): > > It’s both. Obama would be the one taking the blame if something went wrong. Gotta keep it simple for those people. > [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > Why do you continue with the false equivalence? Americans and terrorists are not opposite sides of the same spectrum. What we do is just and right. What they do is pure evil. Do you deny that this is true? Most of what we do is just and right, but until 20 years ago we were perfectly happy to be evil and wrong as long as it suited our interests. The world is not black and white. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bin-laden-is-dead/580436/269 "2011-05-03T16:41:04Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > …Most of what we do is just and right, but until 20 years ago we were perfectly happy to be evil and wrong as long as it suited our interests. The world is not black and white. How do you figure three wars with literally hundreds of thousands dead, an economy on the verge of collapse and an incredible erosion of civil liberties in the past ten years is “just and right”? ---
**Author:** ![Wheelz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wheelz/32/5718_2.png) [@Wheelz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wheelz)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bin-laden-is-dead/580436/270 "2011-05-03T16:47:11Z")
> [@Capitaine\_Zombie](#): > > Well, dont fake outrage when your “enemies” display the exact same behavior that you do. So, you’re saying that cheering the slaughter of 3000 innocent civilians is the _exact same thing_ as cheering the execution of a fiendish, unrepentant mass murderer and the leader\* of one of the deadliest terrorist organizations in recent history? Oh-kaaaaay… \*Former leader, perhaps, but why should that excuse him? ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bin-laden-is-dead/580436/271 "2011-05-03T17:02:02Z")
> [@Kinthalis](#): > > He was engaged in fund raising and terrorist activities in an enclosed villa in west bubble fuck with no internet/cellular connection? > > What terrorist activities was he masterminding? You are aware that crime bosses have maintained control of their enterprises from prison without internet or cellular connections, yes? ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bin-laden-is-dead/580436/272 "2011-05-03T18:24:43Z")
> [@Wheelz](#): > > So, you’re saying that cheering the slaughter of 3000 innocent civilians is the _exact same thing_ as cheering the execution of a fiendish, unrepentant mass murderer and the leader\* of one of the deadliest terrorist organizations in recent history? Forget it, **Wheelz**. There’s no getting through to people like him. Because, like, hey man, it’s all subjective. We can’t possibly know if the US or al-Qaeda (no /u/, Capitaine) is the evil one. I mean, sure, we _say_ it’s them, but what if, like, it’s really _us_! There’s just no way to know! ::toke toke:: ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bin-laden-is-dead/580436/273 "2011-05-03T18:37:14Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > …There’s just no way to know! ::toke toke:: “I quit whiskey for weed in 1975. May be the only really smart thing I ever did.” - Willy Nelson ---
**Author:** ![Sierra\_Indigo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f0a364/32.png) [@Sierra\_Indigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sierra_Indigo)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bin-laden-is-dead/580436/274 "2011-05-03T20:29:02Z")
I find this in my facebook feed yesterday afternoon (spoilered for longness): > [@](#): > > so they reckon they killed Osama Bin Laden… > Monday at 1:41pm · LikeUnlike · > > ``` > * > * > * > o > KC: They've released footage now. > 17 hours ago · LikeUnlike > o > AB: oh have they? whats the link? > 17 hours ago · LikeUnlike > o > KC: I haven't got the right link yet but ABC in America showed it this morning. Here's a link to the story. > 17 hours ago · LikeUnlike > o > AB: oh is that the footage of "inside the mansion"? > 17 hours ago · LikeUnlike > o > KC: Not sure. There are said to be photos of him dead too. Just hought you'd be interested. > 17 hours ago · LikeUnlike > o > KC: Oh and just wondering what is your theory? > 17 hours ago · LikeUnlike > o > AB: i have seen the footage of inside the mansion and that was ABC america > 17 hours ago · LikeUnlike > o > AB: its all BS, misinformation to create new controversy and possible war activites in the near future > 17 hours ago · LikeUnlike > o > KC: But why? I think the US would have to be careful of this stuff because of reprisals. Obama seems anti-war to me in comparison to Bush > 17 hours ago · LikeUnlike > o > AB: its not even Obama though, they are being controlled by something higher > 17 hours ago · LikeUnlike > o > KC: DO tell...I love theories like these. I'm not having a go at all and would love to here your full take on it all > 17 hours ago · LikeUnlike > o > AB: lol its my pleasure to discuss this with someone willing to listen, > 17 hours ago · LikeUnlike > o > KC: I'm partial to a few good theories. My issue with this one is that the USA have more to lose if this is a conspiracy. Wouldn't Osama just come out and show them up if they didn't kill him? The only way it works, and TBH I think could be believable, is if he had died some time ago and they are using it to their benefit. > 17 hours ago · LikeUnlike > o > AB: I have heard that they had his body years ago and where going to do similar to what they have done now when bush was nearing the end of his first term > 16 hours ago · Like > > ``` Head, meet desk. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bin-laden-is-dead/580436/275 "2011-05-03T20:38:52Z")
The new controversy that seems to be rearing its head: Bin Laden was unarmed when those American thugs burst in and shot him in the face! Oh noes! I’ll bet that almost every passenger in those airplanes and in WTC on 9/11 were unarmed too. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bin-laden-is-dead/580436/276 "2011-05-03T21:09:58Z")
> [@Ogre](#): > > The new controversy that seems to be rearing its head: Bin Laden was unarmed when those American thugs burst in and shot him in the face! Oh noes! I confess to not diligently keeping up with the conspiracy theorist Twitter feeds, but is it possible the “controversy” is that we were initially told he was armed, cowering behind his shrieking wife #4, and jabbering “you’ll never take me alive, coppers!” and it turns out that at least a couple of those details may not have been, shall we say, factual statements? ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bin-laden-is-dead/580436/277 "2011-05-03T21:26:02Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > I confess to not diligently keeping up with the conspiracy theorist Twitter feeds, but is it possible the “controversy” is that we were initially told he was armed, cowering behind his shrieking wife #4, and jabbering “you’ll never take me alive, coppers!” and it turns out that at least a couple of those details may not have been, shall we say, factual statements? Were we initially told that? I honestly don’t know. I remember it coming up in places, but I don’t know whether it was an official statement, a rumor distilled from elements of the original statement, an assumption made up out of whole cloth and spread via the web, or what. In any case, it doesn’t bother me that he was unarmed, nor does it bother me that we might have been initially told that he was armed, and then the statement was modified. Shit happens when you’re trying to get the news out. It could have been that some staff member, thinking that the videos would never have been released, decided to sanitize the news a bit. Frankly, even if we were told initially that he was unarmed, I find it refreshing that the administration is willing to actually own up to how ruthless the operation actually was. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bin-laden-is-dead/580436/278 "2011-05-03T22:01:09Z")
> [@Ogre](#): > > Were we initially told that? I honestly don’t know. I remember it coming up in places, but I don’t know whether it was an official statement, a rumor distilled from elements of the original statement, an assumption made up out of whole cloth and spread via the web, or what. In any case, it doesn’t bother me that he was unarmed, nor does it bother me that we might have been initially told that he was armed, and then the statement was modified. Shit happens when you’re trying to get the news out. It could have been that some staff member, thinking that the videos would never have been released, decided to sanitize the news a bit. > > Frankly, even if we were told initially that he was unarmed, I find it refreshing that the administration is willing to actually own up to how ruthless the operation actually was. [White House Advisor John Brennan](http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20110502/pl_afp/usattacksbinladenshield) > [@](#): > > “There was family at that compound, and there was a female who was, in fact, in the line of fire that reportedly was used as a shield to shield bin Laden from the incoming fire,” counter-terrorism official John Brennan said. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bin-laden-is-dead/580436/279 "2011-05-03T22:06:24Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > [White House Advisor John Brennan](http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20110502/pl_afp/usattacksbinladenshield) That doesn’t say anything about whether he was unarmed or not. ---
**Author:** ![MidnightMagus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7c8e57/32.png) [@MidnightMagus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MidnightMagus)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bin-laden-is-dead/580436/280 "2011-05-03T22:16:51Z")
…American propaganda claims a GROUP of soliders, under direct orders from Obama, stormed a fortified compound and murdered Osama Bin Laden, then promptly discarded the body into the sea, “in accordance with Islamic tradition” s…o there is no evidence the man is even dead. This is NOT an American victory, but another lie propagated by YOUR government, so, instead reposting utter bullshit on Facebook, what proactive solution do you have to make sure the soldier you are routing for works for a government that is worth fighting for??? My son wrote that, but in truth he and I both think Bin Laden died years ago. That is, of course, just a guess. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bin-laden-is-dead/580436.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bin-laden-is-dead/580436.md?page=15)